TfW Train Cancelled Because of too Many People Joining/Alighting The Service

[Envoy]

1V39 from Manchester to Milford Haven was cancelled today (13 June 2022) between Cardiff & Milford Haven due to unexpected number of people joining/alighting the service - according to Real Times Trains. Train was 2 153’s. A number of cancellations in west Wales as well. Another dire day on Transport for Wales while new stock sits in sidings.

Realtime Trains | 1V39 1031 Manchester Piccadilly to Cardiff Central | 13/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1V39 1031 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Cardiff Central on 13/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[MP393]

The service, along with the 1131 & 1231 from Manchester (the latter being thankfully a 3 car 175) all left Piccadilly full and standing and turning people away, full mainly of people checking out of hotels after the 4 major music events on in Manchester over the weekend. As well as this, I believe the 10:31 is the first “Super Off Peak TFW + LNWR” Manchester - London tickets between Manchester and Crewe. Which a lot of people travel with. Ticket acceptance was given between Manchester & Crewe on Northern services

 

[JN114]

It was “swapped” for a 175 at Cardiff Central - albeit there was presumably a fresh crew on hand too so with the inbound late running the 175 departed (nearly) RT, presumably to mitigate effects of late running in West Wales.

Realtime Trains | 1Z39 1345 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven | 13/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1Z39 1345 departure from Cardiff Central to Milford Haven on 13/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The only other cancellations in West Wales appear to be a single round trip between Carmarthen and Swansea.

 

[Glenn1969]

1V39 from Manchester to Milford Haven was cancelled today (13 June 2022) between Cardiff & Milford Haven due to unexpected number of people joining/alighting the service - according to Real Times Trains. Train was 2 153’s. A number of cancellations in west Wales as well. Another dire day on Transport for Wales while new stock sits in sidings.

Realtime Trains | 1V39 1031 Manchester Piccadilly to Cardiff Central | 13/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1V39 1031 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Cardiff Central on 13/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This link shows a replacement service to Milford Haven was put on from Cardiff. Unfortunately the Man Picc train arrived late so people for the West missed the connection

 

[Cardiff123]

Another dire day on Transport for Wales while new stock sits in sidings.

Are you aware of the extensive testing, thousands of fault free running miles, and crew training that's needed before any new trains can enter into service? These are UK-wide standards that must be met for all new trains. You can't just put a new train into service days after it's delivered, like you can a car.

TfW will be in a much better position next summer, but this summer is going to be another difficult one to meet demand.

 

[Envoy]

Are you aware of the extensive testing, thousands of fault free running miles, and crew training that's needed before any new trains can enter into service? These are UK-wide standards that must be met for all new trains. You can't just put a new train into service days after it's delivered, like you can a car.

TfW will be in a much better position next summer, but this summer is going to be another difficult one to meet demand.

Yes, I am aware of the training that is needed and the testing before new trains can enter service. I wonder how the UK standards on this vary - if at all - with those in other European countries? I also note that the 197’s are similar to the 196’s and to a lesser extent the 195’s.

Good to see that they managed to get a 175 out for the Cardiff to Milford Haven leg - even if it left before the late 153 arrived. Perhaps in the event that TfW cannot cope with people leaving Manchester for Newport and westward, they should allow these people to travel on Cross Country via Birmingham to Bristol Parkway and change to GWR? Of course, I do realise that Cross Country would also have been pretty busy = another TOC with inadequate rolling stock.

In west Wales, the following have also been cancelled today:> 2E13 Pembroke Dock > Swansea; 2V08 Crewe > Swansea (via HoW was terminated at Llanelli); 2E24 Swansea > Pembroke Dock; 2M10 Swansea > Shrewsbury (via HoW); 2V10 Shrewsbury (via HoW) > Swansea; 2E27 Swansea > Carmarthen.

I see on Media Wales that TfW are now giving advance warning that they will have serious capacity constraints over the next weekend:>

Fears of travel chaos for Tom Jones and Stereophonics in Cardiff

Transport for Wales is asking people who live locally to walk, cycle or use local bus services

www.walesonline.co.uk

A spokesman said: “Services in South Wales are expected to be very busy throughout both days of the Stereophonics and Tom Jones concerts. All available carriages are in service, but we continue to face some capacity constraints as a result of the damage some of our carriages suffered in the recent incident at Craven Arms – the impact of this serious criminal act will continue to be felt for some time. We’ll provide additional bus services to supplement the trains where possible."

 

[wobman]

In the future the Cardiff to Manchester route will be far better served, tfw have bought Mk4s for the route aswell as 197s in multiple.

All new trains require extensive testing and FFR before they enter service, plus all traincrew need traction training.
There next generation mtu powerpacks on the 197s, this is one difference between the 195s plus the obvious front gangway doors.

 

[Parallel]

TfW just don’t currently have the capacity for extra numbers travelling to events.

Experienced this weekend in the well publicised online photos of the 150 running Holyhead - Cardiff being severely overcrowded departing Bangor! Social media wrote that it takes months to plan for events - but it seemed many angry people weren’t buying it, and it made it sound like they spent months planning to run a 2-car 150 on that busy weekend service!

I’ve also experienced this last year when there were a couple of events in Manchester. 2 x 153 arrived already wedged by Stockport where the train picked up another 10 mins of delay with passengers heading to Cardiff and Swansea unable to board.

Ive also been on a 2-car 175 between Shrewsbury and Cardiff on match day (poor planning on my part) which was the most overcrowded train I’ve ever been on. There were around 20 people crammed into the disabled toilet! This isn’t a new problem though (see attached image)

TfW has been left with lots of limitations and short term fixes, with 769s and 170s only able to run on specific routes, and poor availability of Mk4s (or crew to operate them).

Social media have also been telling passengers that the 197s will be a capacity increase on The Cambrian line, with people responding online that’s simply not true.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Cambrian is the real problem for 197s, it will cause a reduction in capacity, not an increase.

 

[wobman]

The Cambrian is the real problem for 197s, it will cause a reduction in capacity, not an increase.

But isn't the cambrian getting an increase in the frequency of services?
Thus increasing capacity on the route with more trains.
I agree though thar the 2 car 197s should be 3 cars and doubled up as they have ASDO fitted.

 

[175001]

Another dire day on Transport for Wales while new stock sits in sidings.

Tell me you don't know how the railway works without telling me you know how the railway works...

TfW are doing the best they can, with the resources they can, in the time given to them.

Not their fault that they are also 3 150s down in one go due to a few chavs on a digger

 

[craigybagel]

The Cambrian is the real problem for 197s, it will cause a reduction in capacity, not an increase.

But isn't the cambrian getting an increase in the frequency of services?
Thus increasing capacity on the route with more trains.
I agree though thar the 2 car 197s should be 3 cars and doubled up as they have ASDO fitted.

As I've pointed out several times, people are assuming that it's going to be the same frequency of services and the same number of cars per service as now, only with 197s directly replacing the 158s. Yet nobody has seen the actual plans yet.

Tell me you don't know how the railway works without telling me you know how the railway works...

TfW are doing the best they can, with the resources they can, in the time given to them.

Not their fault that they are also 3 150s down in one go due to a few chavs on a digger

To be fair it's only 2 150s, the one on the rear survived with no damage and was quickly put back in service. The 2 damaged units are still stuck at Craven Arms however.

Mods, is there any chance of merging this thread into one of the other weekly new threads on how seemingly awful TfW are (at dealing with problems entirely outside of their control)?

 

[NSEFAN]

But isn't the cambrian getting an increase in the frequency of services?
Thus increasing capacity on the route with more trains.

I dare say that the history of Cross Country can tell us how well this view worked out!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The stupidity - who is responsible I don’t have a definitive view on - is that the 14x fleets were withdrawn to satisfy a political expedient under cover of Covid during a period of low passenger numbers, without the replacement stock ready for service.

 

[wobman]

I dare say that the history of Cross Country can tell us how well this view worked out!

It's more examples of dft mismanagement to be honest

 

[markymark2000]

Good to see that they managed to get a 175 out for the Cardiff to Milford Haven leg - even if it left before the late 153 arrived. Perhaps in the event that TfW cannot cope with people leaving Manchester for Newport and westward, they should allow these people to travel on Cross Country via Birmingham to Bristol Parkway and change to GWR? Of course, I do realise that Cross Country would also have been pretty busy = another TOC with inadequate rolling stock.

There was an announcement at Crewe saying the advice for people 'heading to Newport, Cardiff and South Wales, go via Birmingham' so I presume there was ticket acceptance for that to happen.

 

[Mogz]

Didn’t BR used to run relief trains for this sort of thing?

Often old clapped out spare stock but extra capacity nonetheless?

 

[robert thomas]

There was an announcement at Crewe saying the advice for people 'heading to Newport, Cardiff and South Wales, go via Birmingham' so I presume there was ticket acceptance for that to happen.

It's a valid route other than for tfw only tickets such as advance

 

[6Gman]

Didn’t BR used to run relief trains for this sort of thing?

Often old clapped out spare stock but extra capacity nonetheless?

Yes, but that was a different age.

 

[wobman]

Didn’t BR used to run relief trains for this sort of thing?

Often old clapped out spare stock but extra capacity nonetheless?

There is no old clapped out stock that complies with DDA legislation, Tfw are running some 153s with toilets locked out as they aren't compliant.

Tfw cancelled one of the loco & stock today due to technical issues, they are really struggling with unit availability & the Mk4s are not doing too well.

 

[Mogz]

Yes, but that was a different age.

Oh.

And there was me thinking things were supposed to improve with time!

 

[Cardiff123]

Oh.

And there was me thinking things were supposed to improve with time!

Yes, they have. Thankfully all trains must now be compliant for disabled people

 

[Envoy]

Tfw cancelled one of the loco & stock today due to technical issues, they are really struggling with unit availability & the Mk4s are not doing too well.

This does not bode well for the future. So, what happens if these 67’s conk out? Who is going to rescue them? Will a spare 67 & crew be stationed at say Shrewsbury and also have the ability to rescue a freight? At least if the whole fleet were 197’s there would be less chance of a breakdown and a nearby train could rescue a failed set. Could a 196 rescue a 197 and vice versa on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line? Then we have the ancient 153’s being retained for the Heart of Wales. Who can rescue them apart from another 153 that might be miles away?

 

[Dr Hoo]

It's more examples of dft mismanagement to be honest

Sorry, I don't understand. I thought that this thread was about Transport for Wales services that aren't controlled by the DfT.

(I do, however, note that some passengers may well have been diverted onto services thankfully supported by the DfT.)

Can you clarify, please?

 

[craigybagel]

This does not bode well for the future. So, what happens if these 67’s conk out? Who is going to rescue them? Will a spare 67 & crew be stationed at say Shrewsbury and also have the ability to rescue a freight?

Yes, that's exactly the plan.

At least if the whole fleet were 197’s there would be less chance of a breakdown and a nearby train could rescue a failed set. Could a 196 rescue a 197 and vice versa on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line?

Yes, they are fully capable of rescuing each other.

Then we have the ancient 153’s being retained for the Heart of Wales. Who can rescue them apart from another 153 that might be miles away?

True, there isn't much cover for the 153s, but given all the redundancies in each unit to provide for solo running, the odds of two coupled 153s both failing are pretty slim - and the plan seems to be that they'll be operating in pairs down there.

 

[Envoy]

Yes, that's exactly the plan.

Yes, they are fully capable of rescuing each other.

True, there isn't much cover for the 153s, but given all the redundancies in each unit to provide for solo running, the odds of two coupled 153s both failing are pretty slim - and the plan seems to be that they'll be operating in pairs down there.

Many thanks for the quick clarification to the points I raised.

 

[wobman]

Sorry, I don't understand. I thought that this thread was about Transport for Wales services that aren't controlled by the DfT.

(I do, however, note that some passengers may well have been diverted onto services thankfully supported by the DfT.)

Can you clarify, please?

If you read the reply in context to the post in question, that's self explanatory.

 

[Runningaround]

TfW just don’t currently have the capacity for extra numbers travelling to events.

Experienced this weekend in the well publicised online photos of the 150 running Holyhead - Cardiff being severely overcrowded departing Bangor! Social media wrote that it takes months to plan for events - but it seemed many angry people weren’t buying it, and it made it sound like they spent months planning to run a 2-car 150 on that busy weekend service!

I’ve also experienced this last year when there were a couple of events in Manchester. 2 x 153 arrived already wedged by Stockport where the train picked up another 10 mins of delay with passengers heading to Cardiff and Swansea unable to board.

Ive also been on a 2-car 175 between Shrewsbury and Cardiff on match day (poor planning on my part) which was the most overcrowded train I’ve ever been on. There were around 20 people crammed into the disabled toilet! This isn’t a new problem though (see attached image)

TfW has been left with lots of limitations and short term fixes, with 769s and 170s only able to run on specific routes, and poor availability of Mk4s (or crew to operate them).

Social media have also been telling passengers that the 197s will be a capacity increase on The Cambrian line, with people responding online that’s simply not true.

When has it ever? Not since or prior to privatisation has the franchise been sufficient. When will railways understand the meaning of train where the idea is they can easily be extended and shortened to suit demand.
The Millennium Stadiums 22 years old and was in the planning many years before that, how many Rugby World Cups, Olympics, Six Nations and concerts have taken place since. They should count themselves luck the FAW hasn't looked to cash in on it's success by moving fixtures into it.
There has never been technology in place that can predict passenger numbers as their is now yet it's getting worse at catering for it.
It's in hope rather than expectation that new stock will be enough, how long will it take for it to dawn on TFW it might have ordered too few.

 

[wobman]

This does not bode well for the future. So, what happens if these 67’s conk out? Who is going to rescue them? Will a spare 67 & crew be stationed at say Shrewsbury and also have the ability to rescue a freight? At least if the whole fleet were 197’s there would be less chance of a breakdown and a nearby train could rescue a failed set. Could a 196 rescue a 197 and vice versa on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line? Then we have the ancient 153’s being retained for the Heart of Wales. Who can rescue them apart from another 153 that might be miles away?

Once all the Mk4s are in service they will be on the Holyhead to Cardiff & Cardiff to Manchester routes, there's talk of a rescue loco being based at Crewe as there drivers will need to be all trained up on the 67s & Mk4s with so many in service.

Regarding the 153s there will be spare units at Abbey Foregate once the 197s come into service, the heart of Wales can easily be 2x153s with a spare set.
I 197 could recover a 153 with the emergency coupler fitted but that's doubtful if there spare 153s.

The 197s can in theory couple to a 196 as they both have the software fitted & same coupler fitted for this but it's not been tested in practice yet, I know there's plans for this to take place sometime in the future probably at Abbey Foregate.
The 197s on test and training have a pallet onboard with all of the emergency couplers for the other tfw units incase of a breakdown.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

TfW are doing the best they can, with the resources they can, in the time given to them.

No, TfWs workforce are doing the best they can, with the resources their management, aka the Welsh Government, gives them!

Their staff have to cope with constant negativity from people, frankly like me sometimes, who are peeved off at the political side.

DfT must take some blame for allowing the no growth Arriva franchise but the Welsh Government have had control for long enough to not blame it on the resources their given, especially considering some of the unnecessary spending in certain areas.

The Welsh Government could have spec'd different trains of desired, but went with what they went with, for better or worse. I'm excited for FLIRT but then I live in Chepstow so would be biased.

Extra capacity is what TfW needs and the new fleet will do it. The only concern is the lack of space for future growth given how, rightly IMHO, anti-car the Welsh Government is. If they want to end car usage for many, TfW needs more money!!!