Thames-Clyde Express in the 1970's

[70014IronDuke]

Thanks for both of those bits of info. Shame about the Sunday service I must say. I did it both ways a few years back.

I forgot to mention the up SuO service, 1E20, the 15.19 ex Carlisle DOES still go to Notthingham still. But it's all shacks over the S&C (despite its Class 1 designation). And it gets you into Nottingham a bit late to go much further - arr 19.58. Could be a nice ride in May - August, I suppose.

I seem to recollect one or the other of these named trains described in an old magazine around 1960, that (possibly only for a year or so) the Down train routed through Melton Mowbray, Nottingham and Derby, stopping at Trent. The Up equivalent routed more directly via the Erewash Valley and Leicester, also stopping at Trent, so both Up and Down trains stopped at the same platform there, heading in the same direction.

It may have happened, I don't know. I believe at one time there was a down St Pancras - Man Central via Melton, Nottingham, Trent, Derby and Peak Forest. I think that would have been facing south at Trent. (It seems the LMR were loathe to route traffic in those days via Dore south curve. Routed via Nottingham and Derby, it must have taken more than 5 hours end to end in steam days.)

When I lived in Leicester in the late 1970's I have a vague memory of a Kettering to Glasgow night service, maybe Fridays only. I think I was told its purpose was to serve the Scottish steel workers who came to operate the Corby steelworks. Can anyone confirm this?

Late 70s? The overnight 21.30 ex-St PAncras - Glasgow sleeper (some years ex-Euston) stopped at Kettering and left Leicester around 23.15. It ran until about 75 - and I think was then changed to Notthingham - Glasgow. It's been mentioned numerous times on this forum, as it was famously routed via Mkt Harboro and Northampton (otherwise a freight only route) into Euston for a few years around 1970.
Of course, when it was routed into and out of Euston, it couldn't stop at Kettering.

 

[Magdalia]

When I lived in Leicester in the late 1970's I have a vague memory of a Kettering to Glasgow night service, maybe Fridays only. I think I was told its purpose was to serve the Scottish steel workers who came to operate the Corby steelworks. Can anyone confirm this?

Late 70s? The overnight 21.30 ex-St PAncras - Glasgow sleeper (some years ex-Euston) stopped at Kettering and left Leicester around 23.15. It ran until about 75 - and I think was then changed to Notthingham - Glasgow. It's been mentioned numerous times on this forum

It is only necessary to read this discussion from the beginning!

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Look forward to reading a report of your journey - nice idea!
I'm pretty sure there is a Sunday Nottingham to Carlisle through train still, but you have to be in Nottingham fairly early on a Sunday to get it.

This should probably be in trip planning, but...

My idea is to travel outwards on a Saturday from London to Nottingham departing at 08:05, (in 1974, the Thames-Clyde departed at 08:00) from Notts the Northern service to Leeds & Leeds to Carlisle, then Scotrail via Dumfries to Glasgow. Having to change 3 times and dawdle in Leeds means arrival in Glasgow would be be more than an hour after the 1974 TC schedule, but still in time to enjoy a wee dram or two that evening.

Return from Glasgow on the Sunday, departing around lunchtime. Avanti/TPE via Carstairs to Carlisle. Then the Northern service, which in the up direction is still scheduled to run through to Nottingham on a Sunday.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

When I lived in Leicester in the late 1970's I have a vague memory of a Kettering to Glasgow night service, maybe Fridays only. I think I was told its purpose was to serve the Scottish steel workers who came to operate the Corby steelworks. Can anyone confirm this?

After the via Northampton era the night train reverted to running from St Pancras at 21.30, it was only the sleeping cars which were then attached at Nottingham

Late 70s? The overnight 21.30 ex-St PAncras - Glasgow sleeper (some years ex-Euston) stopped at Kettering and left Leicester around 23.15. It ran until about 75 - and I think was then changed to Notthingham - Glasgow. It's been mentioned numerous times on this forum, as it was famously routed via Mkt Harboro and Northampton (otherwise a freight only route) into Euston for a few years around 1970.
Of course, when it was routed into and out of Euston, it couldn't stop at Kettering.

My recollection is it did however stop at Northampton

 

[jfollows]

After the via Northampton era the night train reverted to running from St Pancras at 21.30, it was only the sleeping cars which were then attached at Nottingham


My recollection is it did however stop at Northampton

Post 13 above gives the dates of the Euston service (May 1970 to May 1972).
1S24 21:00 Euston to Glasgow called at Northampton 22:02-22:10, of course it changed locomotive there too but the WTT has it as a booked passenger stop.
In the up direction 1M98 22:50 SX & Sun Glasgow Central to London Euston called at Northampton 08:48-08:58.
Both from the 4/5/70 to 2/5/71 Section A working timetable.

EDIT The May 1970 public timetable shows the 22:10 departure from Northampton and that sleeping cars are only provided from Northampton. It's also shown as a service Euston-Northampton in the appropriate table. The up service has the note "Sleeping Berths not available for passengers travelling from Glasgow to London".

 

[Buzby]

I have a vague recollection that the Thames-Clyde service ran from St Enoch (until transferred to Central after closure) I’m sure I had noted down the engine numbers from it in the late 50s/early 60s. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I have a vague recollection that the Thames-Clyde service ran from St Enoch (until transferred to Central after closure) I’m sure I had noted down the engine numbers from it in the late 50s/early 60s. Can anyone confirm?

Yes, St Enoch was of course the station for the GSW routes until it closed and services transferred to Central

The May 1970 public timetable shows the 22:10 departure from Northampton and that sleeping cars are only provided from Northampton. It's also shown as a service Euston-Northampton in the appropriate table. The up service has the note "Sleeping Berths not available for passengers travelling from Glasgow to London".

The sleeping cars were of course in the formation from Euston, just not available for boarding until Northampton.
The up train was therefore available in sleepers from e.g. Kilmarnock and Annan to London but not in the return direction.

 

[jfollows]

The sleeping cars were of course in the formation from Euston, just not available for boarding until Northampton.
The up train was therefore available in sleepers from e.g. Kilmarnock and Annan to London but not in the return direction.

That's my interpretation of the words also, but in the "Sleeper services" section at the front of the public timetable the service is shown as going to Northampton only, passengers to alight on arrival, from Dumfries at 00:37 for example. There were other sleepers from Dumfries to Euston using the more direct route of course, whereas it was the only up sleeper serving Annan.

 

[jadmor]

In 1974, I was allowed to take the Up Thames Clyde on my own on a family holiday to Kent. I had some trouble persuading the gate staff at Glasgow Central that this was the train I wanted, not the fast electric service. I also recall that after leaving Leeds, we were routed from Wakefield Westgate down to Kirkgate and then on the old Midland Main Line. At the time, this route did not appear on the official BR system map, but I believe it did appear on the 1975 edition.

 

[Taunton]

In 1974 ... I also recall that after leaving Leeds, we were routed from Wakefield Westgate down to Kirkgate and then on the old Midland Main Line. At the time, this route did not appear on the official BR system map, but I believe it did appear on the 1975 edition.

Have discussed before that at this period there were multiple changes in the routing of express trains from Leeds/York to Sheffield, almost every year, with mining subsidence issues and alterations (and reversals) of policy. Some routes which had investment in the track etc were not long afterwards abandoned. There had been a large range of alternatives.