Thames Rover weekday evening restrictions

[MikeWM]

Does anyone know what the current evening restrictions on a Thames Rover are from Paddington and/or Reading? This was touched on in this thread : https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thames-rover-3-day.242571/ earlier this year, but there didn't seem to be an answer.

GWR's website says one thing, with just a few services with restrictions from Paddington and none from Reading:
https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/choosing-your-ticket/rangers-and-rovers

NR's website has a long list of trains you can't board at either Paddington or Reading, though most of the trains there don't exist or have been retimed, so presumably this is very out-of-date:
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-offers/promotions/thames-rover-3-day/

BRFares.com has a similar but different list to NR's, but with restrictions at Paddington only - similarly these trains also don't exist or have been retimed, so presumably this is out-of-date too.
https://www.brfares.com/!roverdetail?nlc=I367&rvr=TR3

RailRover.org no longer lists any evening restrictions, I'm sure it did until fairly recently:
http://www.railrover.org/pages/thames-rover.html

Which of these is correct?

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Edit to add : ah, I've misread the GWR site, it says

*Not* valid for travel from London Paddington between 16:00 and 19:15 except on all TFL services and the following GWR services:
which therefore matches more-or-less what NR and BRFares says, but without needing to update a long list all the time - which they don't do, given the list is out-of-date - by saying what is *included* rather than what is *excluded*. But even that list is really odd, as eg. it says one of the allowed trains is:

- 19:07 Bedwyn service as far as Reading

why only as far as Reading? And the trains in this list don't appear to match reality either, eg. the 1907 Bedwyn that mysteriously only allows travel to Reading, presumably now is the 1906? Most of the others don't appear to exist at all anymore.

 

[Rover]

I read somewhere, I can't remember where now, it could have been in Barry Doe's "Rail" column, that when departure times change then the validity transfers to the equivalent departure time, so the 1907 Bedwyn service now applies to the 1906 Bedwyn service, As regards "only as far as Reading" I can't answer that one.

Edit: I remember where it was now it was on the old NRE website.

 

[nickswift99]

I read somewhere, I can't remember where now, it could have been in Barry Doe's "Rail" column, that when departure times change then the validity transfers to the equivalent departure time, so the 1907 Bedwyn service now applies to the 1906 Bedwyn service, As regards "only as far as Reading" I can't answer that one.

That might be the intent but a passenger can't rely on this where the service is not delayed but is permanently retimed. The acid test has to be what is written in the published restrictions of the ticket. This works both ways though, so a ticket restriction that only lists barred trains would give a passenger additional validity if one of those services were to be retimed and the restriction not updated - this happened en mass when the GWR timetable was rewritten as electric services were introduced. Unfortunately, when it's an exception to a restriction then the passenger is left disadvantaged and I would contend find it hard to argue that their ticket was valid.

 

[jfollows]

That might be the intent but a passenger can't rely on this where the service is not delayed but is permanently retimed. The acid test has to be what is written in the published restrictions of the ticket. This works both ways though, so a ticket restriction that only lists barred trains would give a passenger additional validity if one of those services were to be retimed and the restriction not updated - this happened en mass when the GWR timetable was rewritten as electric services were introduced. Unfortunately, when it's an exception to a restriction then the passenger is left disadvantaged and I would contend find it hard to argue that their ticket was valid.

I agree: if some part of the railway decides to implement ticket restrictions with references to specific trains then it's also got the responsibility to update the references when the times change, and people using the ticket can't be expected to know that the reference to the 19:07 service actually applies to the 19:06 service because the time changed but the people responsible for the restrictions forgot or couldn't be bothered to update them.
It's nonsensical to argue otherwise, despite what Barry Doe might have written.

 

[Rover]

It's nonsensical to argue otherwise, despite what Barry Doe might have written.

It wasn't Barry Doe I've edited my original post it was the old NRE website.
I wasn't trying to justify it I was merely adding to the debate.

 

[jfollows]

It wasn't Barry Doe I've edited my original post it was the old NRE website.
I wasn't trying to justify it I was merely adding to the debate.

No worries, I wasn’t arguing with you, thanks.
EDIT It’s pretty intolerable for NRE to say this, actually. I can’t see it would stand up in court, but of course most arguments don’t get to court.

 

[Rover]

No worries, I wasn’t arguing with you, thanks.
EDIT It’s pretty intolerable for NRE to say this, actually. I can’t see it would stand up in court, but of course most arguments don’t get to court.

No worries either.
It was a poor way of getting out of not having to keep updating the rover pages.

 

[MikeWM]

It is an interesting debate and it seems it should be a lot easier to find out this sort of thing and/or the industry should be more responsible about updating this information.

In the end, I'm not too concerned about the restrictions from Paddington, except in the academic sense.

But the restrictions - or not - from Reading are a little more concerning, because as the 'hub' of the rover it would be pretty easy to get on the wrong train by accident if some were actually barred in the Down direction. But then it isn't clear to me if there are any restrictions from Reading, or not, anymore. Hopefully one can rely on GWR's website that there aren't.

(I should be doing one of these rovers next week, which is why the issue arises

 

[island]

The restrictions can also be viewed at www.nationalrail.co.uk/O9

 

[MikeWM]

The restrictions can also be viewed at www.nationalrail.co.uk/O9

They can, but I wonder what is this about

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30 (Not before 09:31 from Reading.)

The only thing the term in brackets catches is the 0930 off Reading that goes to Plymouth. What's so special about that which means it needs its own condition?


More importantly, when it says

not valid on the following departures from London Paddington:

does it mean the *passenger* can't leave Paddington on them (but can get on them anywhere else), or not valid on the *trains* that depart Paddington at those times (ie. you can't get on anywhere they call after Paddington either?)

I note that the list there no longer has the Reading times added in brackets, unlike the same list that was posted to the thread I mentioned in my first post at the start of this year, so does that mean these restrictions existed until fairly recently but now there are no evening restrictions to boarding at Reading?