Thameslink and Southern

[Carlisle]

But they already have all the seperate URLs. In short, this lot are skint and they are not going to spend money on stuff they already have and don't need to spend money on!

Blimey, are they skint already,? they've barely started the new franchise

 

[tsr]

Yes, alas, staff given 5 days notice. Some have worked for years. Very sad.:cry:

Yes, a catering trolley chap told me that today. As I hadn't recently read this thread, it was completely out of the blue for me to hear. Fortunately he said he had other work lined up in the food industry, but I should imagine many have tougher times ahead. He said staff were just informed that RailGourmet had lost their contract.

It definitely now seems to be a "Govia thing" to dispense with trolleys. It goes without saying that the selection (not necessarily presentation) & pricing of items, plus the pretty limited routes, surely did not do wonders for the service - but that's no reason to dispose of the entire catering facility in one fell swoop, rather than improving it.

My personal opinion is that this was a very "passenger unfriendly" action and a poor way to introduce Southern to GTR. If the website wasn't so final about it, I'd have been more hopeful that RG had somehow just been replaced (which may not have actually been a bad idea at all).

 

[JaJaWa]

Please note, from 26 July there will no longer be any onboard catering on Southern trains.

Does "Southern trains" include Gatwick Express?

Edit: new copy of the Connections report is out, loads of interesting information in it.

 

[class373]

Anyone been through London Bridge recently? What do you think of the station?

 

[jon0844]

There's no catering on GN services anymore (and hasn't been for a very long time, fairly sure FCC removed it towards the start of the franchise) and pretty sure its a similar story on TL, so they would definitely be bringing it in line with the rest of GTR.

When the 700s come in, does anyone think there could be a market for a trolley (outsourced, of course, to a company that takes on the financial risk) to operate on some services?

For the longest trips, and where in 8 or 12 car formation you still only need one trolley, I think there would be a chance for someone to make some money and provide a valuable service. Sure, people buy food and drink before boarding - but when you're on a train for over an hour, there's always a chance people want another drink or light snack.

Vending machines are of course a logical alternative.

Edit: Reading the latest Connections newsletter, can I just ask why GoVia would buy 600 iPads? I have nothing against Apple products - they're great, but come on, they cost a fortune and aren't exactly ruggedised. Surely GoVia could have bought a perfectly good Android based tablet for considerably less, offering the exact same features (which I presume are fairly modest) and 3G/4G connectivity. Indeed, I know they could!

 

[talldave]

Yes, alas, staff given 5 days notice. Some have worked for years. Very sad.:cry:

That's appalling.

I also find it ironic that the announcement on the web page left the promotional info about the service in place. But my opinions on Southern's incompetence when it comes to web page editing are well known!

 

[A-driver]

Some southern drivers are gonna learn class 700s.

Not many though. The vast majority of TL services will be FCC. Southern drivers are mainly learning them for stock moves and Selhurst depot route knowledge for now.

Won't a proportion of 'Southern' drivers transfer to 'Thameslink' when the relevant routes transfer in the build up to the full 2018 timetable? It would be completely illogical to do otherwise, surely?

Not exactly, the FCC depots will be taking over those routes seems to be the master plan at the moment.

As already stated, there will be very little integration of work between southern and FCC as once the Thameslink is fully running and franchise is up they will want an easy way to split depots should they wish. So they will limit the amount of 700 work to as few depots as possible. It seems the majority of the GN routes 700 work will be based at the new Hornsey driver depot with a small depot at Cambridge and Peterborough, possibly Hitchin to depending on where they decide to stable the units. But kings x and Lynn won't go near them. The rest of the drivers and depots on the GN will keep all the left over work-Moorgate, Lynn, fast peterbourgh etc.

 

[Bishopstone]

Does "Southern trains" include Gatwick Express?

Yes, according to a Q&A on Twitter.

 

[jon0844]

Impossible! We all know they are totally unconnected...!

 

[Deepgreen]

Yes, a catering trolley chap told me that today. As I hadn't recently read this thread, it was completely out of the blue for me to hear. Fortunately he said he had other work lined up in the food industry, but I should imagine many have tougher times ahead. He said staff were just informed that RailGourmet had lost their contract.

It definitely now seems to be a "Govia thing" to dispense with trolleys. It goes without saying that the selection (not necessarily presentation) & pricing of items, plus the pretty limited routes, surely did not do wonders for the service - but that's no reason to dispose of the entire catering facility in one fell swoop, rather than improving it.

My personal opinion is that this was a very "passenger unfriendly" action and a poor way to introduce Southern to GTR. If the website wasn't so final about it, I'd have been more hopeful that RG had somehow just been replaced (which may not have actually been a bad idea at all).

As trains become more and more crowded, trollies become harder to accommodate and move around, so I'm not sorry or surprised to hear that they are going, but it's very hard on the staff involved. I never use the trollies anyway, preferring to buy any food/drink off-train.

Southern have never presented themselves as "passenger friendly" anyway in my experience - their corporate vision of "taking service to the next level" has always been derisory, writing as a hardened user of the diabolical Redhill!

 

[387star]

Does anyone have any gen on the new three bridges depot?

I understand it is due to go live as a driver depot in spring 2016 and will have capacity for 99 drivers

I am.not sure how many thameslink drivers are transferring as I know many blackfriars drivers live around there as well as southern having a depot there and at Redhill

I am hopeful not all vacancies will go to qualifieds. I am in the gtr talent pool and will relocate to anywhere they send me but three bridges is especially appealing

 

[A-driver]

Does anyone have any gen on the new three bridges depot?

I understand it is due to go live as a driver depot in spring 2016 and will have capacity for 99 drivers

I am.not sure how many thameslink drivers are transferring as I know many blackfriars drivers live around there as well as southern having a depot there and at Redhill

I am hopeful not all vacancies will go to qualifieds. I am in the gtr talent pool and will relocate to anywhere they send me but three bridges is especially appealing

Forms are out at the moment for existing drivers to express interest in moving there. It will take a while for them to collect them back and go through them to decide weather to open the depot to trainees.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, a catering trolley chap told me that today. As I hadn't recently read this thread, it was completely out of the blue for me to hear. Fortunately he said he had other work lined up in the food industry, but I should imagine many have tougher times ahead. He said staff were just informed that RailGourmet had lost their contract.



It definitely now seems to be a "Govia thing" to dispense with trolleys. It goes without saying that the selection (not necessarily presentation) & pricing of items, plus the pretty limited routes, surely did not do wonders for the service - but that's no reason to dispose of the entire catering facility in one fell swoop, rather than improving it.



My personal opinion is that this was a very "passenger unfriendly" action and a poor way to introduce Southern to GTR. If the website wasn't so final about it, I'd have been more hopeful that RG had somehow just been replaced (which may not have actually been a bad idea at all).

It just sums govia up really-absolutely appealing treatment of the staff involved and proves how little govia care about their employees. Absolutely unacceptable to turn around to staff and let them go with a weeks notice-I know their co tracts allow this but let's face it, this wasn't a last minute decision and they could have told them a month or so ago to give them half a chance of finding other work and stop people on already very poor money from getting into financial trouble.

Proves that the only people they care about are the shareholders and as staff we are just numbers to them. Appalling.

 

[misterredmist]

I agree with "deepgreen" above , having travelled from Flitwick to Gatwick and return a month back, the rolling stock involved is totally unsuitable for catering - especially as the train got "hammered" at various stations , with the vestibules crammed and the aisles full of standing pax.

I said to my better half that if they were considering catering on a service the length of Bedford to Brighton, then a buffet car would be the answer, otherwise forget it....

Of course, 5 days notice for these people is unforgivable , and I think the people who mete out such callous practice need to be brought to account .....

 

[Philip C]

I could expend a lot of words relating the time (is it really more than 40 years ago?) when the ex-Belle staff were reassigned to BIGs, piping on shoulders and all, and added a bit of class to an already classy operation. Now I'm expected to travel from Brighton to Cambridge without the chance of a hot cup of tea. And they call it progress!

 

[Deepgreen]

Forms are out at the moment for existing drivers to express interest in moving there. It will take a while for them to collect them back and go through them to decide weather to open the depot to trainees.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



It just sums govia up really-absolutely appealing treatment of the staff involved and proves how little govia care about their employees. Absolutely unacceptable to turn around to staff and let them go with a weeks notice-I know their co tracts allow this but let's face it, this wasn't a last minute decision and they could have told them a month or so ago to give them half a chance of finding other work and stop people on already very poor money from getting into financial trouble.

Proves that the only people they care about are the shareholders and as staff we are just numbers to them. Appalling.

I think you mean "appalling"...!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I could expend a lot of words relating the time (is it really more than 40 years ago?) when the ex-Belle staff were reassigned to BIGs, piping on shoulders and all, and added a bit of class to an already classy operation. Now I'm expected to travel from Brighton to Cambridge without the chance of a hot cup of tea. And they call it progress!

Yep - April 1972!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Now I'm expected to travel from Brighton to Cambridge without the chance of a hot cup of tea. And they call it progress!

Well, at whatever station the driver changeover is, perhaps they'll build some time into the timetable for Brighton-to-Cambridge pax to relieve themselves and get refreshments before reboarding.

 

[Saint66]

I noticed in the Connections booklet that there are a couple of mentions in relation to making progress with plans to upgrade St Albans City... Interesting to see what they propose come Autumn.

 

[jon0844]

Interesting to see what they propose come Autumn.

Shutting it down with five days notice?

 

[Saint66]

Shutting it down with five days notice?

Quite possibly! Although, maybe that should be the plan for Luton's station... Permanently.

 

[jon0844]

I think you meant Luton (without the station bit).

A place so lovely that some people choose to move to Syria.

 

[swt_passenger]

As already stated, there will be very little integration of work between southern and FCC as once the Thameslink is fully running and franchise is up they will want an easy way to split depots should they wish.

I think we are at cross purposes, I wasn't suggesting integration of work, just that the future 'Thameslink routes' will need more drivers, and the remaining 'Southern routes' will need less drivers, so it doesn't make sense for the 'Thameslink' side to recruit newbies when there'll be 'Southern' chaps able to transfer.

However you shouldn't really be referring FCC by now surely?

Moving depots doesn't really seem a massive issue in the overall scheme.

 

[CC 72100]

I don't know much about the profitability of catering on southern so maybe the decison is ultimately the right one...

but the way they have announced it on their website on the normal 'advertising page' for the service looks really unprofessional and gives a can't be bothered look to it, and that coupled with the short timescale for both customers and employees seems poor.

 

[BzRail]

Does anyone have any gen on the new three bridges depot?

I understand it is due to go live as a driver depot in spring 2016 and will have capacity for 99 drivers

I am.not sure how many thameslink drivers are transferring as I know many blackfriars drivers live around there as well as southern having a depot there and at Redhill

I am hopeful not all vacancies will go to qualifieds. I am in the gtr talent pool and will relocate to anywhere they send me but three bridges is especially appealing

When passing early this morning, the new buildings on the west side had 'Three Bridges Traincare Depot' and 'Siemens' signs in the process of being added. Though obviously this is just the maintenance and train parking area. The drivers' resort, with pool, sauna and massage, is probably elsewhere

 

[physics34]

a problem though is southern and thameslink drivers on different contracts and terms, especially sunday working terms.

Horsham drivers may end up signing 700s as there will be a few stabled there, there may also be a staff depot at Tattenham reopening because of the amount of stock that will be stabled their too.

All day tattenhams and Horshams with peak time Littlehampton/East Grinstead/Caterham will be 700s. SOuthern drivers sign all of these and no Thameslink drivers do, so unless all Thameslink drivers sign these routes i can see quite a few SOuthern drivers driving 700s.

 

[HH]

Is five days notice even legal? I thought there was a minimum notice period to close an entire workplace. Or are they just entitled to payment in lieu of notice?

You can always give payment in lieu of notice.

Nevertheless it's still appalling.

 

[physics34]

I don't know much about the profitability of catering on southern so maybe the decison is ultimately the right one...

but the way they have announced it on their website on the normal 'advertising page' for the service looks really unprofessional and gives a can't be bothered look to it, and that coupled with the short timescale for both customers and employees seems poor.

Its a shame weve gone from a full dining service in 1972 on the brighton belles to none in 2015.. but then again the amount of food/drink avaliable on stations now is ridiculous.

Its a shame though that if you are taking a 2 hour journey from Victoria to Hastings you are not gonna be able to get a hot cuppa during the journey.

I hope eventually things will come full circle and buffets return to trains in the future.. may not be for a while though.!

 

[BzRail]

Its a shame weve gone from a full dining service in 1972 on the brighton belles to none in 2015.. but then again the amount of food/drink avaliable on stations now is ridiculous.

Its a shame though that if you are taking a 2 hour journey from Victoria to Hastings you are not gonna be able to get a hot cuppa during the journey.

I hope eventually things will come full circle and buffets return to trains in the future.. may not be for a while though.!

I feel very sorry for the catering staff, and wish them all the best for the future.

This seems however pretty much in line with the general decline in comfort and standards, like shelving instead of proper seats. Aircon is good, when provided and working.

 

[Class377/5]

When passing early this morning, the new buildings on the west side had 'Three Bridges Traincare Depot' and 'Siemens' signs in the process of being added. Though obviously this is just the maintenance and train parking area. The drivers' resort, with pool, sauna and massage, is probably elsewhere

Divers area is inside the main building on the Up side.

a problem though is southern and thameslink drivers on different contracts and terms, especially sunday working terms.

Horsham drivers may end up signing 700s as there will be a few stabled there, there may also be a staff depot at Tattenham reopening because of the amount of stock that will be stabled their too.

All day tattenhams and Horshams with peak time Littlehampton/East Grinstead/Caterham will be 700s. SOuthern drivers sign all of these and no Thameslink drivers do, so unless all Thameslink drivers sign these routes i can see quite a few SOuthern drivers driving 700s.

There WILL be Southern drivers driving 700s. That I know for a fact*. Can't say why tho.

* subject to any chances being made

 

[carriageline]

Edit: Reading the latest Connections newsletter, can I just ask why GoVia would buy 600 iPads? I have nothing against Apple products - they're great, but come on, they cost a fortune and aren't exactly ruggedised. Surely GoVia could have bought a perfectly good Android based tablet for considerably less, offering the exact same features (which I presume are fairly modest) and 3G/4G connectivity. Indeed, I know they could!

The apple vs android argument often comes up a lot.

AIUI, apple is much more secure and 'locked down' out of the box, which is perfect for a corporate environment like this. Plus, in this amount, I doubt they are paying no where near the same price as you or I.

Unsure what you mean by ruggedised, but you can easily buy cases that give a lot of protection against anything you could put it up against.

From what I see, android tablets are not a great deal cheaper than apple (for a decent one, not one of the cheapy China rubbish specials)

 

[A-driver]

Diverts area is inside the main building on the Up side.







There WILL be Southern drivers driving 700s. That I know for a fact*. Can't say why tho.



* subject to any chances being made

Not quite a fact long term-there have been numerous meeting about this, a couple I have been to as a union rep, and it's actually very much up in the air depending on which directors or managers you speak to. At the latest meeting it was strongly hinted at the only ex FCC depots would have 700 work but until they know where units will be stabled day to day it is very much subject to change.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, at whatever station the driver changeover is, perhaps they'll build some time into the timetable for Brighton-to-Cambridge pax to relieve themselves and get refreshments before reboarding.

What driver changeover? Just as Bedford-Brighton is currently done often by 1 driver so will Cambridge to Brighton and Peterborough to Horsham. It's still a relatively short trip compared to some long distance depots work. If you can do London to Newcastle with no driver change you can certainly do Brighton to Cambridge.