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On Tuesday I was standing at the platform there and noticed how steep the gradients were into and out of the station including the far ends of the platforms, the majority of the platform (central) is flat of course. So the long trains - what they lose on trying to leave they gain from the push going down at the other end!
Are there any other stations where there's a slope in and out with the flat bit in the middle, so the platforms have to slope at both sides?
On Tuesday I was standing at the platform there and noticed how steep the gradients were into and out of the station including the far ends of the platforms, the majority of the platform (central) is flat of course. So the long trains - what they lose on trying to leave they gain from the push going down at the other end!
Are there any other stations where there's a slope in and out with the flat bit in the middle, so the platforms have to slope at both sides?
The Central London Railway (now the Central Line) was built with an upward slope into the platforms and a downward slope out of them to assist with braking and accelerating.
The Central London Railway (now the Central Line) was built with an upward slope into the platforms and a downward slope out of them to assist with braking and accelerating.
I thought a lot of stations on the London underground were deliberately designed to be on summits, to help trains to slow down on the approach to the station and accelerate away again while reducing electricity consumption and brake wear.
I thought a lot of stations on the London underground were deliberately designed to be on summits, to help trains to slow down on the approach to the station and accelerate away again while reducing electricity consumption and brake wear.
I thought a lot of stations on the London underground were deliberately designed to be on summits, to help trains to slow down on the approach to the station and accelerate away again while reducing electricity consumption and brake wear.
the cofiguration is also so the running tunnels were deep enough to keep out of the way of other built ‘obstructions’, but that the stations are closer to the surface to minimise the amount of excavation to get to them and also reduce the time it takes passengers to get to/from street level.
Crossrail2 was largely designed on the same basis.
On Tuesday I was standing at the platform there and noticed how steep the gradients were into and out of the station including the far ends of the platforms, the majority of the platform (central) is flat of course. So the long trains - what they lose on trying to leave they gain from the push going down at the other end!
Are there any other stations where there's a slope in and out with the flat bit in the middle, so the platforms have to slope at both sides?
Most tube lines were designed that way (sawtooth) for the reasons already m3ntioned ( reduced brake wear and free assistance with acceleration out of the platform.
The reason for the gradient on the Thameslink route at Farringdon, though, is to get underneath the Met and Circle at the Ray Street Gridiron. Presumably built that way so that the City Widened Lines could be on the north side of the Circle at Kings Cross and St Pancras, enabling the links to the Great Northern and Midland to run in.
I think most of the Central line stations in Zone 1 have arrival and departure incline assitance, I remember seeing an article decades ago that described it as a first on the deep tubes.
I think most of the Central line stations in Zone 1 have arrival and departure incline assitance, I remember seeing an article decades ago that described it as a first on the deep tubes.
Except Holborn, where the station was added 25 years or so after the line was opened - the station originally having been a few hundred yards further west (British Museum); the site of the latter still has the rise and fall of the tunnel as you go through.
When the lengthened the platforms on the Central Line the gradients in and out of the plarforms was a problem. They had to make level platform tracks and steeper gradients i think. Central line is 8 cars. The other old tubes are 7.
The steep gradient between Blackfriars and City Thameslink was necessary to reroute the line beneath Ludgate Hill. It had previously passed over the road on a bridge, blocking the view of St Pauls Cathedral. Putting the station underground allowed lucrative new developments above it.
When the lengthened the platforms on the Central Line the gradients in and out of the plarforms was a problem. They had to make level platform tracks and steeper gradients i think. Central line is 8 cars. The other old tubes are 7.
I used to use Tottenham Court Road station a lot and there the extended platform at the western end of the eastbound platform showed a clear drop. Trains approaching could not be seen from the opposite end until they are nearly in the station.
Don’t most Tube stations work the opposite way to City Thameslink?
Unless I mis-remember, at City Thameslink, the back of the train ‘pushes’ the rest of the train as it sets off up the hill. Whereas on most Tube stations, the front of the train ‘pulls’ the rest away down the hill as it sets off.
(Obviously the Tube setup is more efficient and the Thameslink one only comes about by coincidence due to the geography and need to get down for buildings to be built on top)
Are there other stations with a steep down into the station and then back up the other side to get away?
The reason for the gradient on the Thameslink route at Farringdon, though, is to get underneath the Met and Circle at the Ray Street Gridiron. Presumably built that way so that the City Widened Lines could be on the north side of the Circle at Kings Cross and St Pancras, enabling the links to the Great Northern and Midland to run in.
The surprising thing at Farringdon is there used to be, in freight train days, a banking loco to help push southbound freights up the hill to Ludgate Hill. But the banking loco spur, the site of which is still visible, was immediately beyond the west end of the Farringdon platforms, so the climb up from Ray Street was not covered. I would think if the freight loco could manage that climb up (which looks about 1 in 30), then it could manage the continuation to Ludgate Hill.
This long climb is only to get up to the level of the river bridge. Is Farringdon (or Ray Street) below river level? I did read that Ray Street, quite apart from the recent water main burst there, was a regular point for flooding; the Underground kept one of their old steam locos on long term, fitted with a steam pump, to come and pump out floodwater, principally there.
Long ago, possibly Victorian times, the promoters of a notably undulating railway scheme argued in Parliament that the ups and the downs just cancelled each other out, so the effort required was the same as if level. The committee chairman then observed dryly that therefore the Scottish Highlands must be excellent territory to build a railway across.
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Totnes sort of qualifies, steeply down Dainton Bank into the station, then equally steeply up Rattery Bank the other side. Inevitably, for non-stop trains, both are quite notably curved. Apparently on a Warship taking this at speed it was something like a Disneyland ride.
This long climb is only to get up to the level of the river bridge. Is Farringdon (or Ray Street) below river level? I did read that Ray Street, quite apart from the recent water main burst there, was a regular point for flooding; the Underground kept one of their old steam locos on long term, fitted with a steam pump, to come and pump out floodwater, principally there.
Farringdon platforms are about 4m below local street level of 11m, so about 7m above sea level, so the bottom of the Ray Street diveunder could be getting pretty near sea level.
The surprising thing at Farringdon is there used to be, in freight train days, a banking loco to help push southbound freights up the hill to Ludgate Hill. But the banking loco spur, the site of which is still visible, was immediately beyond the west end of the Farringdon platforms, so the climb up from Ray Street was not covered. I would think if the freight loco could manage that climb up (which looks about 1 in 30), then it could manage the continuation to Ludgate Hill.
My guess is that momentum helped with Ray Street, but I doubt if it would have been enough to get to Holborn even with an unchecked run through Farringdon - and you'd want the road right through to beyond Ludgate Hill so as not to risk getting stopped on the bank.
Farringdon platforms are about 4m below local street level of 11m, so about 7m above sea level, so the bottom of the Ray Street diveunder could be getting pretty near sea level.
Don’t most Tube stations work the opposite way to City Thameslink?
Unless I mis-remember, at City Thameslink, the back of the train ‘pushes’ the rest of the train as it sets off up the hill. Whereas on most Tube stations, the front of the train ‘pulls’ the rest away down the hill as it sets off.
(Obviously the Tube setup is more efficient and the Thameslink one only comes about by coincidence due to the geography and need to get down for buildings to be built on top)
Are there other stations with a steep down into the station and then back up the other side to get away?
A train starting out from City Thameslink might get a bit of help from the back being on the descending gradient, as long as it was occupying the whole platform length. Assuming the gradients at each end are the same, it would be like starting on level track. However, once it had gone a couple of coach lengths, the rear of the train would be onto the level(ish) part of the platforms so any such assistance would disappear and it would face an increasingly hard slog as more of it got onto the gradient at the departure end. Also worth noting that a train arriving would have to brake earlier, so as to control its speed on the descent to the platforms.
By contrast, a level platform with gradients up on the approach and down on departure helps the train decelerate better on approach and accelerate better on departure.
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