Thameslink Railway performance

[asylumxl]

Hi everyone!



I apologise for the essay in advance.



As some of you may know I commute in to London on the Thameslink route, which recently changed hands to Govia.



Having been back at work since the new franchise began, I seem to have perceived a marked drop in performance. While I appreciate that a lot of delays are out of the hands of the TOC, there have been occasions where I feel FCC handled similar situations better.



Earlier this week I believe a person was hit by a train between Harpenden and St Albans, which was beyond their control. But when I arrived at Luton station I found only one ticket machine functioning and one window open at the ticket office, with queues for both literally going out the building and down the footbridge.



In similar situations FCC had staff out with handheld ticket machines issuing tickets, while no such thing was going on here. There was also a severe lack of information on alternative routes and ticket acceptance, something FCC seemed quite quick on.



Random, smaller delays seem to have increased for me too. I don't think there's been a single day I've not had some delay. Usually there's no reason given.



I guess the question I want to ask is whether or not anyone else using the route feels this and if performance has actually dropped?



Again, sorry for the essay!

 

[Metobusfan]

Working for them I do feel information from my control centres have decreased since the takeover, take Wednesday, with the power probs at City Thameslink (the train messing up the overhead line) it took an hour before any official info came

 

[AM9]

Working for them I do feel information from my control centres have decreased since the takeover, take Wednesday, with the power probs at City Thameslink (the train messing up the overhead line) it took an hour before any official info came

I suspect when there have been a few serious problems they will get local and MP pressure to clean up their act. That's what happened to First.
The winter should bring that point forward, - first there will be leaves, then wind and falling trees, maybe some snow, who knows?

 

[andrewkeith5]

I suspect when there have been a few serious problems they will get local and MP pressure to clean up their act. That's what happened to First.
The winter should bring that point forward, - first there will be leaves, then wind and falling trees, maybe some snow, who knows?

Given my usual luck when I'm due to go on holiday, I predict this will happen some time around the 10th of November when I'm due to leave! Last time was the winds back at the start of the year wrecking the network the day before I was due to leave...

 

[FOH]

While not knowing Thameslink, I was previously a South West Trains commuter and now Southern. My feeling is that SWT were/are much better at dealing with situations that require on the spot decision making. Southern seem much more procedural and slow at changes.

 

[Clip]

Earlier this week I believe a person was hit by a train between Harpenden and St Albans, which was beyond their control. But when I arrived at Luton station I found only one ticket machine functioning and one window open at the ticket office, with queues for both literally going out the building and down the footbridge.



In similar situations FCC had staff out with handheld ticket machines issuing tickets, while no such thing was going on here. There was also a severe lack of information on alternative routes and ticket acceptance, something FCC seemed quite quick on.

Whilst I am sure they would love to do that but how can they if the RPIs are out somewhere else and cannot get to the station to facilitate this?

 

[Taunton]

I am afraid this is an aspect of the whole franchising approach, that the "new" management take quite some time, in fact years, to get up to speed in handling things. It doesn't help that the new franchisee is generally chosen by the DfT on the basis of being the lowest bidder, which just encourages a race to the bottom of standards.

If I recall correctly, First, when they took over from Thameslink way back, were exactly the same for quite some time. Of course there was then a lot of shouting by MPs etc and eventually the management found some money for improvements and started understanding their procedures. Now there are a new lot at the top and the MPs are going to have to start all over again. The same will happen next time round.

If you find this tedious please bring it to the attention of Tom Winsor and his acolytes who persuaded the government that the railway is better run by lawyers (as he is one) with zillions of legal contracts between different parties rather than by professional railwaymen.

 

[asylumxl]

Working for them I do feel information from my control centres have decreased since the takeover, take Wednesday, with the power probs at City Thameslink (the train messing up the overhead line) it took an hour before any official info came

Thank you. I'm glad to hear it isn't just my imagination.



It's rather disappointing as I felt First were getting particularly good at dealing with disruption and relaying information to customers.

 

[asylumxl]

Whilst I am sure they would love to do that but how can they if the RPIs are out somewhere else and cannot get to the station to facilitate this?

I know for sure that the gateline staff at Luton have at least one machine at their disposal. There were 3 staff by the wide access gate and I do feel at least one of them could have helped matters.

 

[SPADTrap]

That's franchising for you! All those saying get rid of FCC?

Welcome to square one!

 

[Simon11]

Most of the staff are the same, working with the same equipment.

It would seem unlikely in the short term that this incident was handled any differently to how FCC would handle it?

 

[asylumxl]

Most of the staff are the same, working with the same equipment.

It would seem unlikely in the short term that this incident was handled any differently to how FCC would handle it?

As people have said, the management has changed, and I assume certain policies have too.



Being that someone who works for FCC/TL has commented that they feel information is slower to reach them, I'm inclined to say things have changed.

 

[AM9]

Interestingly, my better half was caught up in the delays when the knitting was pulled down and she said that James, the St Albans star dispatcher, was there at STP to support the locals. As usual, he had his calming smiling face on despite probably not knowing much more than the average passenger.
Maybe there is some hope.

 

[BzRail]

I commute from Haywards Heath to London, usually using FCC/Thameslink.

The final month or so of FCC was quite bad. There appeared to be an increase in failed trains, leading to the perception they had cut back on the spending required to fix things properly.

I did not expect things to change for the better overnight when Govia/Thameslink took over, but things have got significantly worse. Timetabled evening peak 12 car trains short formed day after day, having a knock on effect to make following services much busier.

At least FCC listed short forms, and other delays (not shown on nationalrail), on their website. Thameslink cannot be bothered. They need to realise that short trains are no different to cancellations when people cannot physically board, it is even worse for those with health problems. When information 'is' made available, those with some choice of route can use another line or station to avoid disruption (and delay repay claims).

While many of the problems are beyond the train operator's control, customer service and the flow of information certainly is not. GTR need to start treating their passengers with a lot more respect and consideration to avoid a campaign to kick them back out. End of rant.

On a positive note, once on-board a train, most FCC/Thameslink drivers have been very good at keeping passengers informed during disruption. I thank them for it.

 

[Pretendolino]

As people have said, the management has changed, and I assume certain policies have too.

Being that someone who works for FCC/TL has commented that they feel information is slower to reach them, I'm inclined to say things have changed.

I completely disagree I'm afraid. With the exception of some directors being appointed, it is pretty much all the same staff and the same equipment.

However, how do you think the staff feel with a new company taking over? There is uncertainty for everyone involved. Do you think the employees will feel engaged and at the top of their game when they don't know if their job is safe? For the record, I'm not saying people aren't working hard, I'm saying your inference of causality is flawed.

Performance was poor under FCC and it is still bad now. Changing a few heads at the top won't magically solve anything in 3 weeks nor would it be to detriment of performance.

 

[SAPhil]

Interestingly, my better half was caught up in the delays when the knitting was pulled down and she said that James, the St Albans star dispatcher, was there at STP to support the locals. As usual, he had his calming smiling face on despite probably not knowing much more than the average passenger.
Maybe there is some hope.

I wondered what had happened to him - I haven't seen or heard him at St Albans since the takeover.

 

[Taunton]

Although many staff may be the same, there is a considerable "inertia" of responsibility, knowing what you can and cannot do without referring things upwards. If there is uncertainty of job security then a common first step is to refer everything up the management chain rather than do something that might, who knows, lead to a Black Mark on your record during such times. It's close to having a Work To Rule. Of course, a Good and Competent management would have got this gripped even before the start. You don't get the best Good and Competent management when DfT have screwed down all the proposals to choose the lowest bidder.

There will also be things that the previous franchisee will have taken with them on changeover day, assets that were not in the transfer agreement but were still useful, the good staff you offer a position to elsewhere, and such like, plus a lot of knowledge that is just in people's heads.

 

[Class377/5]

Most of the staff are the same, working with the same equipment.

It would seem unlikely in the short term that this incident was handled any differently to how FCC would handle it?

Not actually completely true.

 

[DelayRepay]

I guess the question I want to ask is whether or not anyone else using the route feels this and if performance has actually dropped?

I use this route and I agree with you, it does feel like things have got worse. I'm not sure if things really have got worse though or if it's just been a bad few weeks.

I know Wednesday was the 1st so more people would be renewing season tickets, but I've never seen queues as long as I saw at St Albans that morning. It didn't help that two windows were closed and one TVM wasn't accepting card payments. As asylumxl noted, in the past RPIs/barrier staff would work the queues with their portable machines, but on this occasion they didn't.

There are other problems too - their app isn't as good as the FCC one, their website doesn't accept delay repay claims (it rejects my claims saying I haven't entered a station, when I have) and generally things don't seem to be as well run.

But like I say, they've not had a lot of luck over the last few weeks so I'm hopeful things will get better...

 

[Abpj17]

It’s essentially the same staff. So I do wonder if it’s confirmation bias at play. But…I’d agree that it has felt worse!

Many of the changes aren’t their fault - ‘fatalities on the line’, faults on trains, signalling problems, that day with overhead wires etc. I do however wonder whether FCC had eased off maintenance of trains towards that end that GTR are now suffering from - I’ve noticed more train faults and more 4-car trains rather than 8-car in the last 3 weeks than usual. I’ve got two delay repay claims to do from last week alone (and two near-misses from the same week - there was one day TVMs weren’t working, then the card system in the booking office stopped too; and a passenger taken ill). The fundamental issues with lack of carriages won’t go away until new stock comes in though and there is no quick answer to the problem of the core only have two lines and being a common point of failure because of the power change over.

Where GTR is in control such as communications, the long term future looks potentially positive - with forums, etc. But I’ve not heard from anyone who was impressed with the response to the overhead line issues (see grump on other thread!)

While it’s not a silver bullet, I know the Luton North MP, Kelvin Hopkins suffers through the same service we do and is pretty vocal. In 2010 he asked in the House about nationalising Thameslink lol http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8485360.stm

Would be really interested to hear the views of drivers and staff though!

I do wonder if it’s the kind of franchise that GTR regret winning given the baptism of fire they’ve had

 

[BzRail]

.....their website doesn't accept delay repay claims (it rejects my claims saying I haven't entered a station, when I have) and generally things don't seem to be as well run.....

I suffered the same frustrating problem, trying to make 2 delay repay claims via their web site. I was initially using 'Blackfriars' as the origin/destination. When I changed this to 'London Blackfriars' it then submitted without error, and the confirmation email arrived. We will see if the vouchers actually turn up.

Testing their app was obviously not a priority.

 

[DelayRepay]

there was one day TVMs weren’t working, then the card system in the booking office stopped too;

Oh yes, I forgot about that.

Could the short formations be due to some of the Thameslink trains being sent up north before replacements were ready? I've not been following that thread but this could well explain short formations.

If GoVia want to maintain goodwill (ha!) they'll need to sort themselves out pronto. I never thought I would hear these words which a fellow passenger said as we waited for the Rail Replacement Bus at Hatfield on Wednesday night: "Bring back First Capital Connect - All is forgiven!"

 

[21C101]

I notice that contributors to the First Crapital Connect forum are not enamoured with GTR either, someone claiming to be "Bob Crow's ghost" wrote:

"New Thameslink franchisee off to a great start - web site looks like it has been designed by a 12 year old as a school project & has much less information about train alterations. Also, they appear not to respond at all to emails - at least the hated FCC gave you an automated response, followed by a near-useless reply about a week later."

 

[Saint66]

Interestingly, my better half was caught up in the delays when the knitting was pulled down and she said that James, the St Albans star dispatcher, was there at STP to support the locals. As usual, he had his calming smiling face on despite probably not knowing much more than the average passenger.
Maybe there is some hope.

He has been spotted quite a few times at STP recently, both during disruption and not.... Maybe he's been moved?

 

[21C101]

Notable that GTR are actually bothering to staff the barriers at Blackfriars for longer hours now, and presumably at City too. Wonder how much revenue was lost under the previous lot by leaving them open most of the day, even in the morning peak on the south entrance to Blackfriars....

 

[Abpj17]

Meanwhile, staffing the barriers also means my ticket is likely to wear out a lot quicker!

As a desparately unscientific sample, in GTR alert emails:

12 emails citing 4 carriages isntead of 8: 4 due to overhead wires (across two days), 5 train faults, 2 fatality, 1 signalling problems. It's the high number due to train faults that bothers me.

 

[Hophead]

Notable that GTR are actually bothering to staff the barriers at Blackfriars for longer hours now, and presumably at City too. Wonder how much revenue was lost under the previous lot by leaving them open most of the day, even in the morning peak on the south entrance to Blackfriars....

Not at City yesterday - south-end barriers open at 13:30; north-end barriers open at 16:15

 

[hassaanhc]

They have stopped using the Journeycheck information page for some reason, and in a reply to my tweet said that there is no current plan to use it. Southern also don't use it, instead preferring to clutter up their Twitter feed with individual train alterations.

 

[Aictos]

He has been spotted quite a few times at STP recently, both during disruption and not.... Maybe he's been moved?

I've asked my colleagues this and apparently yes he has moved to St Pancras, probably a good thing shame they can't clone him

 

[LBSCR Times]

They have stopped using the Journeycheck information page for some reason, and in a reply to my tweet said that there is no current plan to use it. Southern also don't use it, instead preferring to clutter up their Twitter feed with individual train alterations.

Southern dropped JourneyCheck and it's now the same with Thameslink. The same level of information is going out from their Control but none of it reaches the customer via their website anymore.