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Thameslink Super Off-Peak Travelcards

Ted633

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2018
Messages
374
At weekends, if I want a travelcard from my local station (Horley), the cheapest ticket I can get is an off-peak travelcard. However, if you go from Three Bridges*, there is the option of a cheaper super off-peak travelcard (even though you are further away).
So two questions,
1 - is there a difference (additional restrictions) between a ‘super off-peak’ and a ‘off-peak’? Both are ‘Thameslink Only’.
2 - why is the super off-peak option not available from all stations?

*Super Off-Peak tickets were also recently available from Gatwick, however they have disappeared there now.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Might different fare setters, be a factor, in what's offered? Noting, of course, that Southern and Thameslink are both part of GTR.
 

JonathanH

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29 May 2011
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21,125
Still available from Gatwick at the weekend, and yes, you can use one from Horley.
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=GTW&dest=0035&rlc=NEW&rte=789&tkt=WRE

So two questions,
1 - is there a difference (additional restrictions) between a ‘super off-peak’ and a ‘off-peak’? Both are ‘Thameslink Only’.
2 - why is the super off-peak option not available from all stations?
At the weekend on the Brighton line, there is no difference in the trains that off-peak and super off-peak tickets can be used on.

These tickets were introduced before Thameslink trains provided the primary service at Redhill and Horley, and are therefore only at the stations where First Capital Connect and Southern were in competition, before 2015.

They (Thameslink only tickets) were meant to be withdrawn as part of GTR becoming one operation, but the issues with the Southern DOO dispute and London Bridge timetable meant it was unpalatable to do so.

There are separate all-week super off peak tickets which had their birth as Connex 'Pricebuster' tickets which have greater weekday restrictions than off-peak tickets.

Project Oval is coming to more of the Brighton Line stations soon, and where that has happened elsewhere it has seen a lot of these sort of multi-layer fares removed.
 
Last edited:

Ted633

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2018
Messages
374
Still available from Gatwick at the weekend, and yes, you can use one from Horley.
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=GTW&dest=0035&rlc=NEW&rte=789&tkt=WRE


At the weekend on the Brighton line, there is no difference in the trains that off-peak and super off-peak tickets can be used on.

These tickets were introduced before Thameslink trains provided the primary service at Redhill and Horley, and are therefore only at the stations where First Capital Connect and Southern were in competition, before 2015.

They (Thameslink only tickets) were meant to be withdrawn as part of GTR becoming one operation, but the issues with the Southern DOO dispute and London Bridge timetable meant it was unpalatable to do so.

There are separate all-week super off peak tickets which had their birth as Connex 'Pricebuster' tickets which have greater weekday restrictions than off-peak tickets.

Project Oval is coming to more of the Brighton Line stations soon, and where that has happened elsewhere it has seen a lot of these sort of multi-layer fares removed.
Seems it is only this weekend the Super off peak isn’t available from Gatwick (For whatever reason). Wasn’t available when I travelled yesterday and still isn’t today (as far as I can see). Available again from next weekend though.
Fully aware they are valid at Horley (I get the train from there, but select the ticket from Gatwick when using a machine). Was just wondering why you couldn’t get one from Horley itself. I suppose the old FCC /Southern competition makes some sort of sense.

Thank you for your answers.

Edit - seems that Super Off Peaks are also available from Crawley & Horsham, which would’ve been outside the FCC / Southern competition.
 

Ken X

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29 Nov 2021
Messages
237
Location
Horsham
Edit - seems that Super Off Peaks are also available from Crawley & Horsham, which would’ve been outside the FCC / Southern competition.
I can confirm this, we bought one day super off peak Travelcards at Horsham last Sunday as we had a day out in the smoke with family.
 

sqwizz

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22 Jul 2024
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58
Location
UK
Similar situation at the stations near me - my local station doesn't let you buy a Super but the one further away from London does, so I have to buy my ticket 'from' there instead. I enquired and was told it's because they removed the Super when converting my local station to PAYG. From a quick check it looks like Horley has Oyster PAYG and Three Bridges doesn't?
 

Ted633

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2018
Messages
374
Similar situation at the stations near me - my local station doesn't let you buy a Super but the one further away from London does, so I have to buy my ticket 'from' there instead. I enquired and was told it's because they removed the Super when converting my local station to PAYG. From a quick check it looks like Horley has Oyster PAYG and Three Bridges doesn't?
Correct, Three Bridges doesn't however Gatwick does (and Super Off Peaks are available from there)
 

CyrusWuff

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20 May 2013
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4,658
Location
London
Correct, Three Bridges doesn't however Gatwick does (and Super Off Peaks are available from there)
Gatwick isn't within the Oval area, however, which is why the structure for paper fares is unchanged.
 

Watershed

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At weekends, if I want a travelcard from my local station (Horley), the cheapest ticket I can get is an off-peak travelcard. However, if you go from Three Bridges*, there is the option of a cheaper super off-peak travelcard (even though you are further away).
You can use the Three Bridges ticket starting at Horley - "break of journey" is allowed at intermediate stations.

So two questions,
1 - is there a difference (additional restrictions) between a ‘super off-peak’ and a ‘off-peak’? Both are ‘Thameslink Only’.
On a weekend or Bank Holidays, both of these fares are valid all day, so you can just buy the cheaper one.

However this isn't the case for all Super Off-Peak tickets; some, primarily those set by West Midlands Trains (London Northwestern) and SWR, still have restrictions on Saturdays.

2 - why is the super off-peak option not available from all stations?
It's down to the complex history of the fare structure on the Brighton Main Line. Thameslink created cheaper fares for journeys such as Gatwick and Three Bridges to London, back when they were a separate franchise and operator competing with Southern. They didn't serve intermediate stations such as Horley, so they didn't create "Thameslink only" fares for travel from those stations to London.

The situation is now reversed, with many of those stations now only (or primarily) being served by Thameslink, however the "Thameslink only" fares were kept after the creation of the Govia Thameslink Railway franchise in 2015, which merged the previously separate Southern, Gatwick Express, Thameslink and Great Northern operations.

The "Thameslink only" fares thereby became valid on all GTR services, as there is no legal mechanism in the National Rail Conditions of Travel to restrict travel to one particular brand, only to a specific train company (and all of the above brands are operated as one legal entity, Govia Thameslink Railway Limited).

There have been various suggestions/threats to withdraw these cheaper fares over the years, though it has not materialised so far. However, I do I expect that it will happen when contactless PAYG is extended towards Brighton.

A "simplified" Project Oval fare structure (i.e. one that's much more expensive for most Off-Peak journeys) has already been rolled out across other routes where PAYG has been expanded, so we can look forward to more of the same :(.

Sadly this is what the government claims people want. What people actually want is for travel to be both affordable and simple. But the government is using this as an excuse to make it appear simple on the surface ("you can just tap in and out"), whilst actually being more complicated under the hood (Off-Peak paper tickets will apply at different times to PAYG Off-Peak fares, for example).and quietly increasing fares (and thus rail industry revenue).

*Super Off-Peak tickets were also recently available from Gatwick, however they have disappeared there now.
We'd need to know exactly which Super Off-Peak fare you're referring to there (e.g. what price?) because there are a lot of different ones. Super Off-Peak fares are absolutely still available from Gatwick.
 

Ted633

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2018
Messages
374
We'd need to know exactly which Super Off-Peak fare you're referring to there (e.g. what price?) because there are a lot of different ones. Super Off-Peak fares are absolutely still available from Gatwick.
Apologies, was referring to Travelcards. The option for one when buying from a machine didn’t come up yesterday (despite selecting Gatwick as the origin station) Came up when choosing from Three Bridges though.

Since seen that Super Off Peak Travelcards are still available from Gatwick, so not sure what went on there.

Cheers for your answers, just one of those quirks arising from the franchise histories. Bit cheeky against those that aren’t aware of it though.
 

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