The 2022 French Elections discussion.

[edwin_m]

mods note. Split from here.

Better co-operation with France as we had before Brexit would reduce the migrant issues too, assuming Le Pen isn't elected.

 

[nw1]

Better co-operation with France as we had before Brexit would reduce the migrant issues too, assuming Le Pen isn't elected.

Macron is definitely the lesser of the two evils here, though even he seemed to be sending out a "get Brexit done" message during 2019 so I am a bit sceptical about him too. I'd like to see a left-ish, pro-UK candidate in the French presidential election but not sure that there is one!

 

[yorksrob]

I think Macron is coming from the perspective of not wanting Brexit to destabilise the European project.

A more settled, less antagonistic relationship from our side may help to allay such fears.

 

[AlterEgo]

Better co-operation with France as we had before Brexit would reduce the migrant issues too, assuming Le Pen isn't elected.

Le Pen would collaborate with any plan to send economic migrants to Rwanda.

Macron is definitely the lesser of the two evils here, though even he seemed to be sending out a "get Brexit done" message during 2019 so I am a bit sceptical about him too. I'd like to see a left-ish, pro-UK candidate in the French presidential election but not sure that there is one!

There are no pro-British French politicians, that is a feature and not a bug.

 

[Typhoon]

I'd like to see a left-ish, pro-UK candidate in the French presidential election but not sure that there is one!

You may have a long wait. The left seems rather divided. The candidate for the Socialist Party finished 10th in the Presidential elections (behind the Communists and the Greens). There is another 'left' party, La France Insoumise, whose Presidential candidate was third but has few representatives in the legislature - like Macron's party, it seems to be dominated by one person. There are several others, that seem more far-left, with negligible support.

 

[Acfb]

You may have a long wait. The left seems rather divided. The candidate for the Socialist Party finished 10th in the Presidential elections (behind the Communists and the Greens). There is another 'left' party, La France Insoumise, whose Presidential candidate was third but has few representatives in the legislature - like Macron's party, it seems to be dominated by one person. There are several others, that seem more far-left, with negligible support.

It's a shame Melenchon didn't quite make into the runoff (although still did far better than expected), that would have been better for French democracy IMO even if he'd still lost to Macron.

Still hopefully En Marche does badly and Macron has his wings clipped if he wins.

I have sympathy for Melenchon supporters abstaining in the runoff but can't see good reasons for actively wanting Le Pen to win.

 

[DarloRich]

The media report that Macron has won re election as French President and that the fascist/neo fascist/far right/Vichyist Le Pen has been defeated.

 

[brad465]

The media report that Macron has won re election as French President and that the fascist/neo fascist/far right/Vichyist Le Pen has been defeated.

58/42 the projection; let's see how many Le Pen supporters in the UK claim that to be a close call also called 52/48 a decisive victory

 

[DarloRich]

58/42 the projection; let's see how many Le Pen supporters in the UK claim that to be a close call also called 52/48 a decisive victory

Tufton Street and the Speccy will be unhappy!

 

[birchesgreen]

Hopefully the far right rabble will start fighting each other like rats in a sack.

 

[GS250]

Aren't Le Pen's policies based on a big state economic structure laced with some very right wing social dogma? The kind of combination that we very rarely see in the West in fact.

The mainstream media appear to have forgotten to mention that once again Socialist economic policies have been rejected by a major World player. This in spite of a growing suspicion of corporate greed and a genuine fear that the cost of living is going to cripple many.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Aren't Le Pen's policies based on a big state economic structure laced with some very right wing social dogma? The kind of combination that we very rarely see in the West in fact.

The mainstream media appear to have forgotten to mention that once again Socialist economic policies have been rejected by a major World player. This in spite of a growing suspicion of corporate greed and a genuine fear that the cost of living is going to cripple many.

Melenchon was not far behind Le Pen in the first round of voting, if he had made the second place I can well imagine us having seen him beating Macron.

 

[Mikw]

Congratulations France, you have dodged a bullet.

 

[brad465]

The biggest concern regarding authoritarianism is not so much the candidate who might act in such way, it's an exceptionalism mindset that says "it can't happen here", which often a critical mass of the population believe in. Thankfully in France no critical mass was present, but they need to remain vigilant in future. In the UK we've seen attempts to criminalise peaceful protest that are not dead in the water yet, but one of the things that's allowed the bill in question to be presented is that mindset. The fact this mindset exists is if anything proof authoritarianism can happen where one thinks it cannot.

 

[Scotrail12]

I find it a bit worrying that 41.5% voted for a far-right candidate. That could have opened the door to all sorts of bigotry in France. Being LGBT, I'm not sure I feel comfortable visiting any more and certainly not if I was of a different race.

I'm on the libertarian side of the political spectrum so Macron isn't my cup of tea (certainly haven't liked his leadership during COVID) but I'm inclined to say that France has dodged a bullet. Major difference between her and someone like Boris IMO.

 

[GS250]

I find it a bit worrying that 41.5% voted for a far-right candidate. That could have opened the door to all sorts of bigotry in France. Being LGBT, I'm not sure I feel comfortable visiting any more and certainly not if I was of a different race.

I'm on the libertarian side of the political spectrum so Macron isn't my cup of tea (certainly haven't liked his leadership during COVID) but I'm inclined to say that France has dodged a bullet. Major difference between her and someone like Boris IMO.

Le Pen's economic policies are the polar opposite of Boris. Her party stands for a very strong socialist model where as its clear the Tories are still very much free enterprise. Interestingly enough the last time there was a clear European 'National Socialist' party in power was back in the 1930s. I'm sure you can all work out where. Those who do veer towards Socialism (and given the current state of affairs, who can blame them?) have often been in denial that a socialist economic model can co exist with a right wing social model. However I'd say they have been around and there are elements of this in the Hungarian and Polish government.

Boris has made some half hearted attempts to come across as socially very right wing, but in my opinion this was to gain the support of ex UKIP types.

Macron on the other hand, is the classic Metropolitan capitalist. Comfortable mixing it with the high rolling bankers and professional classes but not so comfortable with the ordinary rural folk.

 

[AlterEgo]

I find it a bit worrying that 41.5% voted for a far-right candidate. That could have opened the door to all sorts of bigotry in France. Being LGBT, I'm not sure I feel comfortable visiting any more and certainly not if I was of a different race.

I'm on the libertarian side of the political spectrum so Macron isn't my cup of tea (certainly haven't liked his leadership during COVID) but I'm inclined to say that France has dodged a bullet. Major difference between her and someone like Boris IMO.

France is very racist and Islamaphobic, newsflash. This has been the case since the Empire.

 

[Gostav]

France is very racist and Islamaphobic, newsflash. This has been the case since the Empire.

And the major problem is that, if France still want keep their influence in Africa, any overly radical anti-Islamic move is harmful because Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco are all Islamic countries.

 

[nw1]

This illustrates the problem with a lot of electoral contests at the moment, the choice is between a poor candidate and an execrably dire candidate.

I am glad that Le Pen didn't win as I have no time for the far right, but I am not exactly a fan of Macron who comes across to me as authoritarian, a bit too neoliberal, and appears to have an 'attitude' towards the UK.

The least worst outcome rather than an inspiring outcome. Sadly too many people who have fallen on hard times are turning to the far right rather than more left wing / liberal / libertarian options.

 

[brad465]

I am glad that Le Pen didn't win as I have no time for the far right, but I am not exactly a fan of Macron who comes across to me as authoritarian, a bit too neoliberal, and appears to have an 'attitude' towards the UK.

I agree Macron was kind of a least worst choice in this election, but just because someone "has an attitude" towards another country doesn't mean it's for unjustifiable reasons, even if the attitude is a bit exaggerated. Furthermore just because 2 countries can get on really well with each other, doesn't mean they get on for reasons that an orderly society would welcome, such as the Chinese and Russian regimes getting on while the latter destroys one of its neighbours.

 

[nw1]

I agree Macron was kind of a least worst choice in this election, but just because someone "has an attitude" towards another country doesn't mean it's for unjustifiable reasons, even if the attitude is a bit exaggerated.

I agree there but I would prefer that Macron's 'attitude' was solely towards 'Boris' and the Tories, but I didn't like his "get Brexit done" attitude in early 2019 - he was one of the most obstructive towards extensions, if I remember right.

 

[GusB]

I'm not exactly jumping for joy that Macron won, but I am extremely relieved that it wasn't Le Pen. It's rather concerning that someone who had to rebrand their party from 'National Front' in order to make themselves look a bit more cuddly actually got this far in the process.

 

[yorkie]

I'm not exactly jumping for joy that Macron won, but I am extremely relieved that it wasn't Le Pen...

Same here.

I don't like Macron in a similar way that I don't like Biden, but both were far less bad than the alternatives!

 

[BananaRepublic]

There appears to be no triumphalist tone in the French press, in response to the election result.
Not that they were backing Le Pen, but rather the fact that Macron is widely unpopular, even with many who voted for him and he will get no honeymoon period in facing the mounting problems in France.
Most are predicting a growing threat of widespread civil unrest and the elections for the legislature going against Macron's party, En Marche, resulting in a very difficult political situation for the re-elected president.

 

[david1212]

Quoting from

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/61213460

Mr Macron got a greater share of the vote than expected, winning 58.55% of the vote to Le Pen's 41.45%

while

Many people didn't vote at all and turnout - or the percentage of people who actually voted - was 72%, the lowest in a presidential run-off since 1969
.....
Three million people also cast blank or spoilt votes - meaning they gave in their voting paper but didn't pick either candidate or wrote something else instead.
.....
Others said they only voted for Macron not because they like or agree with him, but because they saw Ms Le Pen as a worse option and didn't want her to win .

While quoting from

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/61057709

Emmanuel Macron won the first round of the French election with 27.6% of the votes, just ahead of his rival Marine Le Pen who got 23.41% of the votes

I agree Macron was kind of a least worst choice in this election, ....

Same here.

I don't like Macron in a similar way that I don't like Biden, but both were far less bad than the alternatives!

So much seems déjà vu to the UK December 2019 and June 2017.

 

[yorksrob]

I heard on the BBC news on Sunday that one of Macron's policies is expecting people to work more. Doesn't seem like a policy I would welcome. One of the great joys of French civilisation is the refusal to adopt repressive Anglo-Saxon working culture.

Looks as though the French had a poor choice of candidates (something I'm sure we can empathize with).

 

[Yew]

Congratulations France, you have dodged a bullet.

Unfortunately one from a gun that their two-phase voting system put against their head.

 

[GS250]

I heard on the BBC news on Sunday that one of Macron's policies is expecting people to work more.

Sadly...that's becoming a global issue. The good news is that people are living longer. The flip side is that they are requiring costly medical treatment as they age. The previous economic model of people dying out around 10 years after collecting their pensions has long since ended.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Sadly...that's becoming a global issue. The good news is that people are living longer. The flip side is that they are requiring costly medical treatment as they age. The previous economic model of people dying out around 10 years after collecting their pensions has long since ended.

It's a major issue. This populist Polish government reverted to 60 for women, 65 for men, and the end result has been starvation pensions for women.

 

[yorksrob]

Sadly...that's becoming a global issue. The good news is that people are living longer. The flip side is that they are requiring costly medical treatment as they age. The previous economic model of people dying out around 10 years after collecting their pensions has long since ended.

It is. Things are moving in the wrong direction in that respect.