The "bus culture" in your area

[Siemens Trains]

Not knowing exactly how much you struggle this scares me when someone very immobile goes up, and I think to myself I hope I don’t need to evacuate quick in an emergency. We’ve all seen the news clips how fast a bus burns if it catches fire

Had to read that comment twice! Just for clarity, I assume you're commenting as a driver who'd be taking responsibility for evacuating the person with mobility issues in an emergency. Not a fellow passenger worried in case their own evacuation route could be delayed by a slower-moving person also trying to escape. I suppose both concerns are valid though.

 

[Intercity110]

In my local area the 'bus culture' is that you begin to get off before the bus stop. Newer drivers open the doors before it's stopped.

 

[Typhoon]

Not knowing exactly how much you struggle this scares me when someone very immobile goes up, and I think to myself I hope I don’t need to evacuate quick in an emergency. We’ve all seen the news clips how fast a bus burns if it catches fire

It is only going upstairs, it is just slow - one step up, move other foot on to same step, then repeat. Down is less of a problem for some reason. That is why I usually stay downstairs. I am actually fairly active undertaking long walks in short stages (about 3-5 miles). Walking up even steep slopes is OK (but can be tiring) because I can regulate my 'step' length.

I can assure you that there are more immobile people than me that go upstairs, I've seen people using walking sticks going upstairs - that is madness. The only 'stick' I carry is a modified tree branch to bash nettles and the like out of the way. It is a struggle as I have walked Scafell Pike and Helvellyn many times in the past, Snowdonia, Peak District, Yorkshire Dales, North York Moors, and quite a bit of the South West Coast Path. I cannot do these any more so I toddle round the south east (I've started the Coast Path, I don't think I will finish it!!)

 

[GusB]

In my local area the 'bus culture' is that you begin to get off before the bus stop. Newer drivers open the doors before it's stopped.

While it used to be possible to do this, I'd have thought that in this day and age, the door interlock would prevent this happening. How old are the buses that they're using? (And what other rules are they breaking?! )

 

[WAB]

While it used to be possible to do this, I'd have thought that in this day and age, the door interlock would prevent this happening. How old are the buses that they're using? (And what other rules are they breaking?! )

Plenty of new buses being turned out with the ability to open doors at low speeds. An eminently sensible way of doing things to reduce dwell times.

 

[richw]

Had to read that comment twice! Just for clarity, I assume you're commenting as a driver who'd be taking responsibility for evacuating the person with mobility issues in an emergency. Not a fellow passenger worried in case their own evacuation route could be delayed by a slower-moving person also trying to escape. I suppose both concerns are valid though.

Yes speaking as a driver. Some of the people I see go up and down stairs take an age. They ain’t getting off quick in emergency and potentially holding others up too in an evacuation

 

[pokemonsuper9]

While it used to be possible to do this, I'd have thought that in this day and age, the door interlock would prevent this happening. How old are the buses that they're using? (And what other rules are they breaking?! )

Door interlock on busses?
I remember during a hot day years ago on the bus (probably Enviro 200) the driver just left the door open so it could be cooler.
I think all doors being left open does is just make a beeping noise which can sometimes be worth just leaving it open.
School bus would also often move off before doors fully shut once the last people had gotten on, or start to open doors just before we stopped, typically having the warning beep once or twice.

 

[Intercity110]

I think all doors being left open does is just make a beeping noise which can sometimes be worth just leaving it open.

That's what happens on the buses I use, although it only stays open for around 30 seconds.

 

[kijeta]

A couple of topics under this general heading.

1. Do buses in your area sometimes have to reverse when in service, either to turn round at a terminus when empty or in the middle of the route with passengers on board?

I’ve come across both practices since moving to Devon and previously in West Yorkshire while living there but was told no reversals are allowed in Greater Manchester - whether by order of the Traffic Commissioner or because of a Union agreement I don’t know. What happens in other places?

2. What do passengers do when getting off the bus, i.e. do they leave their seats and get to the door before the bus stops or stay seated until it stops?

In Devon most do the latter, even when sitting upstairs. Young people in particular seem to do this and of course it increases dwell times at stops. Elsewhere I’ve always been used to getting up and being by the door before the bus stops and this has applied to all passengers except those with a disability. A recent visit to the Isle of Wight suggested they do the same there.

Buses generally have notices advising passengers to remain in their seats but this is really there to avoid a lawsuit if someone falls. Able-bodied passengers should be able to navigate handrails and stairs on a moving bus provided the driver doesn’t stop too quickly.

Monmouth bus W4 stops to reverse twice (both three-point-turns, at Maddox Close and Manson Lane for Phil Anslow Coaches services) (services operated by the council reverse at Hook Close and Manson Lane).

Monmouthshire Council W5a and Phil Anslow W5 reverses at Ash Lane

New Adventure Travel 68 between Monmouth and Abergavenny reverses twice at Dingestow (Village Hall) and The Bryn.

Stagecoach West 36 (special departure via Steiner Academy) between Monmouth and Hereford reverses at Steiner Academy

Newport Bus 60 (special departure via Coleg Gwent) between Monmouth and Newport reverses at Coleg Gwent (it does not reverse at Monmouth Comprehensive as the latter school has a turning circle for buses to complete a U-turn while staying in the forward gear)

Nick Maddy Coaches 54 between Monmouth and Bridstow reverses thrice, at Welsh Newton Common, Llangrove, and only by request of passengers onboard, Llangarron.

All of the above examples are en-route with passengers onboard.

 

[Kaliwax]

While it used to be possible to do this, I'd have thought that in this day and age, the door interlock would prevent this happening. How old are the buses that they're using? (And what other rules are they breaking?! )

On our 57 plate Wright Commanders, you need to put the handbrake on to open the doors, and bus won't move until you shut doors and then take off the handbrake.

On our Pulsars, think the doors can open below 5mph, you can tell when the handbrake is not on when the doors open, as really loud alarm comes from the cab.

On our Tempos, you can open the doors whenever you want too

On our E400MMCs, drivers can open the doors at 5mph I think and can drive away with the doors still closing. You don't need handbrake on to open/close doors either on our Arriva e400mmcs.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I've noticed a recent trend of standing passengers congregating around the door and looking at you like you have three heads if you suggest they move down to let others on.

 

[DunsBus]

The Peter Hogg 81 reverses twice on its circular route from Kelso. Once at Town Yetholm and again at Morebattle. Borders Buses 51 reverses at Oxton. Borders Buses 70 reverses at Hawthorn Road, Langlee. Travelsure 260 and Borders Buses 60 reverses at Allanton. All of these are in the middle of routes with passengers on board. Borders Buses 464 reverses at Lowick in Northumberland again mid route. The Borders Buses 61 also reverses at Oxton when empty.

Passengers tend to ring the bell and wait until the bus stops, though this does not seem to apply in town centres or if there is no marked bus stop where they speak to the driver as to where they want the bus to stop.

Following recent changes in the Borders, the Allanton reverse is no more with the rerouting of Borders Buses 60 to omit the village and the withdrawal of Travelsure's 260. The 61 has also gone.

The Travelsure 34 - another route now consigned to the history books - served Coldingham on some journeys, which included a reverse there.

 

[Deerfold]

I've noticed a recent trend of standing passengers congregating around the door and looking at you like you have three heads if you suggest they move down to let others on.

In what area(s)?

 

[Hullian111]

In Hull, you have to reverse the darn things out of the Interchange bay to get going in the first place. As for routes involving reversing throughout, there is this whacky Hull City Council contract service, operated by Stagecoach as route 41 from Holderness Road Morrisons, in which among other features on this very odd and windy circular route, the driver must make a three-point turn down and up this close of bungalows to pull to a stop. Very strange arrangement, but I suppose it makes sense for the care home a stone's throw away. Can't say I know of any other routes in Hull that have reversing arrangements.

As for alighting, I've always known standing up as soon as I push the bell and walking towards the doors. Can't quite recall if other Hull bus passengers do that, though!

 

[Siemens Trains]

In what area(s)?

I've observed this unwillingness to move up the bus on services used by tourists or people unfamiliar with the routes (or simply those who don't use buses very often). Rather than the commonly-assumed lack of consideration for others, I think they're sometimes nervous about missing their desired stop by having their exit blocked so don't want to stray too far from the door. It happens on trains too.
In some vehicle designs, such as those used in airports with multiple doors, sitting isn't really encouraged and standing around a door area is just the norm.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Down here in TFL land I recently had an issue wanting to get off the bus at a regular stop. Much to my dismay the bus sailed past without stopping so I rang the bell. At the next stop I politely asked the driver why he had not stopped at the previous stop. He answered that I had not rung the bell in time. I pointed out that it had not been a request stop and he looked at me with a bemused expression.

What is the point of having regular and request stops if you always have to ring the bell.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Down here in TFL land I recently had an issue wanting to get off the bus at a regular stop. Much to my dismay the bus sailed past without stopping so I rang the bell. At the next stop I politely asked the driver why he had not stopped at the previous stop. He answered that I had not rung the bell in time. I pointed out that it had not been a request stop and he looked at me with a bemused expression.

What is the point of having regular and request stops if you always have to ring the bell.

Non request stops for a bus?
Never heard of that, although bus stations might be since it can be difficult to see if anyone's waiting (especially if it's a reverse out one)

 

[WAB]

Down here in TFL land I recently had an issue wanting to get off the bus at a regular stop. Much to my dismay the bus sailed past without stopping so I rang the bell. At the next stop I politely asked the driver why he had not stopped at the previous stop. He answered that I had not rung the bell in time. I pointed out that it had not been a request stop and he looked at me with a bemused expression.

What is the point of having regular and request stops if you always have to ring the bell.

No such thing as regular vs request stops any more. All stops are by request - has been this way for the last 15-or-so years.

Non request stops for a bus?
Never heard of that, although bus stations might be since it can be difficult to see if anyone's waiting (especially if it's a reverse out one)

As per the image below, white roundel on red indicated request (i.e. signal to board, ring to alight) whereas red roundel on white indicated a compulsory stop (i.e. all buses must stop). Now, all new installations are a red roundel on white and all stops regardless of colour are treated as request stops.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

No such thing as regular vs request stops any more. All stops are by request - has been this way for the last 15-or-so years.

Explains why I never heard of them, It's an interesting concept but just doesn't really make sense with how busses work.

 

[andrewbowden]

Explains why I never heard of them, It's an interesting concept but just doesn't really make sense with how busses work.

Depends where the bus runs.

In London there was some logic to a bus always stopping at certain stops - especially in central London. They may be busy stops, served by multiple routes, and frequented by many people. It may not always be possible for the people at the stop to spot another service is coming. And such is the busyness of some services, that there's a good chance the bus will be stopping anyway. Hence the logic of having 'always stop' services, vs request stops.

But as noted, the distinction was scrapped in 2007. But that doesn't mean bus stops are request stops. In fact as this Mayoral question from 2016 mentions, policy certainly was that buses should stop regardless at every stop:

TfL requires drivers to stop at recognised bus stops. The requirement is placed on drivers because TfL recognises that some passengers may not know they need to put their hand out or they may have a disability that makes flagging down a bus difficult. Please let TfL know of any incidents where this instruction is not being followed and it will take appropriate action.

Request stops

www.london.gov.uk

Realistically what happens is that if you're on board already, you need to request to leave. But if you're at the bus stop, the bus should stop regardless of whether you signal it.

 

[MasterSpenny]

No such thing as regular vs request stops any more. All stops are by request - has been this way for the last 15-or-so years.




As per the image below, white roundel on red indicated request (i.e. signal to board, ring to alight) whereas red roundel on white indicated a compulsory stop (i.e. all buses must stop). Now, all new installations are a red roundel on white and all stops regardless of colour are treated as request stops.

I never understood why London had ‘request’ and regular bus stops - honestly though Request Stops are disappearing each time a sign gets replaced from what I’ve seen

 

[Siemens Trains]

Down here in TFL land I recently had an issue wanting to get off the bus at a regular stop. Much to my dismay the bus sailed past without stopping so I rang the bell. At the next stop I politely asked the driver why he had not stopped at the previous stop. He answered that I had not rung the bell in time. I pointed out that it had not been a request stop and he looked at me with a bemused expression.

What is the point of having regular and request stops if you always have to ring the bell.

I never understood why London had ‘request’ and regular bus stops - honestly though Request Stops are disappearing each time a sign gets replaced from what I’ve seen

I don't think this concept ever made much sense to anyone and just leads to the type of confusion identified above. Inverse shading denoting the stop type as a special code for those 'in the know' seems rather niche. Of course now we have the situation where all stops are shown as regular but some behaviours associated with 'request' stops are expected.
Perhaps the idea was that passengers who normally travelled on railways could identify with it. Having said that, request stops on train services around London must be pretty rare.

 

[RT4038]

I never understood why London had ‘request’ and regular bus stops - honestly though Request Stops are disappearing each time a sign gets replaced from what I’ve seen

If you go back far enough, the provinces had 'request' and 'compulsory' bus stops too. When I was a conductor, many years ago, the company I worked for had introduced 'request' stops in the early 60s, and by the mid 70s all apart from the main stops were considered such (unless you had one of the diminishing band of 'old timer' drivers who insisted on stopping at compulsory stops unless given two bells on approach).

Most bus stop flags were only introduced in 1940 or so to congregate passengers in order to reduce brake and tyre wear ('4 stops per mile'), prior to this buses stopped anywhere people were waiting (however in many deep rural areas flags were not erected at all)

 

[Deerfold]

I don't think this concept ever made much sense to anyone and just leads to the type of confusion identified above. Inverse shading denoting the stop type as a special code for those 'in the know' seems rather niche. Of course now we have the situation where all stops are shown as regular but some behaviours associated with 'request' stops are expected.

Many stops said "Compulsory" or "Request" under the flag. Drivers are supposed to stop if there is anyone at any stop, but if there is no-one at the stop and no-one on the bus has requested a stop, they eon't stop.

 

[WAB]

But as noted, the distinction was scrapped in 2007. But that doesn't mean bus stops are request stops. In fact as this Mayoral question from 2016 mentions, policy certainly was that buses should stop regardless at every stop:

In reality, all stops are treated as request stops, although most drivers upon spotting a white cane or guide dog will stop and call out the route number.

 

[james60059]

Nearest route to me that I can think of is route 41 in Nuneaton (Nuneaton - Atherstone) reverses mid route at a place called Birchley Heath in both directions. Then of course there's Haymarket Bus Station in Leicester where all buses have to reverse out of the stands to get going.

 

[Deerfold]

In reality, all stops are treated as request stops, although most drivers upon spotting a white cane or guide dog will stop and call out the route number.

Perhaps, but these are the instructions to drivers (as of 2019):

https://www.transportforall.org.uk/files/pub19006thebigredbookupdate2019aw.pdf

Serving the stop

1 Stop when someone has pressed the bell or asked to get off at the next stop.
• When approaching a stop, check if anyone has indicated that they wish to get off. They would usually press thebell, but they might ask
• Stop within the bus stop road markings unless there is a valid reason not to, such as roadworks or parked vehicles
• Stop close enough to the kerb so customers can get off easily. Lower the bus if this will help
• Position the bus so you can safely extend the accessibility ramp if needed

2 Stop if anyone is waiting at the bus stop, making sure you check the area.
• Stop at any stop on your route if someone is waiting by, sitting down or has signalled to you
• Slow down while approaching the stop to check there are no customers waiting
• If there is any doubt, stop
• Look out for older and disabled customers, especially blind and partially sighted people. Remember that not all impairments or conditions can be seen
• Also, look out for wheelchair or mobility scooter users and acknowledge that you have seen them. Keep the front doors closed on two-door buses, so they are given priority access. For more details, see page 98
• At the stop, call out your route and destination to anyone who looks unsure. Lower the bus if it could help a customer, or if they ask. Advise the customer you may have to shut the doors before lowering the bus
• Give people the opportunity to board and only leave when you are sure there is no one else waiting

 

[Siemens Trains]

Perhaps, but these are the instructions to drivers (as of 2019):

https://www.transportforall.org.uk/files/pub19006thebigredbookupdate2019aw.pdf

That looks rather definitive, thanks. The first bullet point in section 1 seems to address the observation in post #76 further up the thread. According to the rules, the driver's bemusement seems justifiable.

As a bus user in Edinburgh I can't say I approve of the section 5 advice on permitting passengers to board when the vehicle is in a queue, but at least it's written down for all to see.

 

[450.emu]

Yes speaking as a driver. Some of the people I see go up and down stairs take an age. They ain’t getting off quick in emergency and potentially holding others up too in an evacuation

A Volvo I-shift gearbox and spirited driving will solve that issue the jerky gearchanges on the B5LH hybrids can make you take a tumble if not prepared... I do get ready to get off at the penultimate stop, some drivers can be impatient, like some passengers keen to get up the stairs as soon as they board. As London buses have a second set of doors, it can be job to get past those who refuse to sit upstairs despite announcements from the PA system of "more seats on the upper deck"... more an issue on busy routes like the 123 and 243.

If it's a Voith boxed DB300, smoother gearchanges (even if thrashed) means your shins won't take a beating on the stairs... hopefully new electrics are replacing the hybrids next year...

 

[richw]

A Volvo I-shift gearbox and spirited driving will solve that issue the jerky gearchanges on the B5LH hybrids can make you take a tumble if not prepared...

Poor driver training. Lovely smooth gearboxes when driven correctly. They require a different style of driving compared to a normal automatic.