The Fat Controller - Watercress Line goes pc?

[John Luxton]

Just spotted a story on the Daily Mail web site concerning a family being told they can't call the Fat Controller the Fat Controller it has to be Sir Topham Hatt!

Thomas the Tank Engine attraction bans The FAT Controller 'slur' https://mol.im/a/11105619 via https://dailym.ai/android

"A family day out at the Watercress Line railway in Hampshire took an unusual turn when a staff member requested that they refer to The Fat Controller by his real name, Sir Topham Hatt.'"

To be honest I am quite appalled that a traditional children's character has fallen to the politically correct brigade.

I seem to recall from my reading of the Railway Series that there was also a Thin Controller and a Small Controller at other Sodor Lines are they being renamed?

 

[yoyothehobo]

OH NO.

Anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sir Topham Hatt is the official name the franchise will expect them to use. I believe it was always his name, but the change away from "The Fat Controller" was when the franchise made it to the US which has tended historically to have more people with his kind of figure.

 

[madannie77]

The name Sir Topham Hatt is first used in the sixth book of the series (Henry the Green Engine) which was first published in 1951, so this name is not a new thing.

I thought it had been customary to refer to him as Sir Topham Hatt rather than The Fat Controller for quite some time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW it sounds to me like the railway had a missed opportunity there. If you're pushing the whole experience rather than something that sounds a bit like what a modern rentathug security guard in a hi-vis might say, surely it would be better if another well-dressed, hatted member of staff should walk up and come out with something (in flawless Received Pronunciation) like "Excuse me, all, one would think that our passengers might have a bit more respect for our Railway's fine Controller and call him by his correct title and name, Sir Topham Hatt, rather than making rather impolite comments about his stature" <doffs hat towards him>.

 

[John Luxton]

Sir Topham Hatt is the official name the franchise will expect them to use. I believe it was always his name, but the change away from "The Fat Controller" was when the franchise made it to the US which has tended historically to have more people with his kind of figure.

So have I but I am not offended.

But accepting it is the US sensitivities that the change is pandering to one would not expect UK staff or volunteers to be so officious. That is the issue here.

I imagine someone is now going to tell me the current franchise holder will deliberately send spies around who will check that this is enforced?

Perhaps it's time for yet another line to drop Thomas? Quite a few seem to have done so over the years as I understand events are now very expensive to licence.

The name Sir Topham Hatt is first used in the sixth book of the series (Henry the Green Engine) which was first published in 1951, so this name is not a new thing.

I thought it had been customary to refer to him as Sir Topham Hatt rather than The Fat Controller for quite some time.

I am only familiar with the original books being of that age and not of the TV series or post Rev Awdry books.

If I recall the first few books which presumably are still in print referred to him initially as the Fat Director.

It was never a secret his name was Sir Topham Hat but no one tended to use it.

FWIW it sounds to me like the railway had a missed opportunity there. If you're pushing the whole experience rather than something that sounds a bit like what a modern rentathug security guard in a hi-vis might say, surely it would be better if another well-dressed, hatted member of staff should walk up and come out with something (in flawless Received Pronunciation) like "Excuse me, all, one would think that our passengers might have a bit more respect for our Railway's fine Controller and call him by his correct title and name, Sir Topham Hatt, rather than making rather impolite comments about his stature" <doffs hat towards him>.

Sadly it does appear as though they are using a rent a thug security guard.

Perhaps this needs to be referred to a certain Mr Fox who seems to be wishing to challenge this sort of thing. Apparently quite successfully with his recent brush with some police investigating hurt feelings and anxiety!

 

[zwk500]

What a storm in a teacup. Typical daily mail froth baiting. A Heritage railway volunteer was slightly brusque in upholding the wishes of the owner of a commercial product the railway had licensed.

 

[John Luxton]

What a storm in a teacup. Typical daily mail froth baiting. A Heritage railway volunteer was slightly brusque in upholding the wishes of the owner of a commercial product the railway had licensed.

Okay I spotted in the DM which I acknowledge is not everybody's chosen news media outlet but it may well appear in other news papers.

It is a fact that constantly challenging norms is offensive / threatening to some.

There are ways that change can be brought about but one has to question whether this was appropriate.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Some real snowflakes getting offended by having to call someone their name. But its the Daily Mail so they are always offended by something...

 

[zwk500]

Okay I spotted in the DM which I acknowledge is not everybody's chosen news media outlet but it may well appear in other news papers.

It is a fact that constantly challenging norms is offensive / threatening to some.

There are ways that change can be brought about but one has to question whether this was appropriate.

Could the railway have handled it better? Absolutely yes. The suggestion uptrend to remain in character would have been perfectly fine.
Challenging norms may be offensive or threatening to some but it is necessary to challenge norms in order to move to a state where prejudice isn't the norm. Fatness may be less serious than other areas like Sexuality or ethnicity but it's still an area where people should have the respect not to mock, insult or exclude people.

 

[John Luxton]

Could the railway have handled it better? Absolutely yes. The suggestion uptrend to remain in character would have been perfectly fine.
Challenging norms may be offensive or threatening to some but it is necessary to challenge norms in order to move to a state where prejudice isn't the norm. Fatness may be less serious than other areas like Sexuality or ethnicity but it's still an area where people should have the respect not to mock, insult or exclude people.

The thing is though from what I recall in The Railway Series of books the term fat was never used as a term of insult. In at least two books "Small Railway Engines" and "Duke the Lost Engine" if I recall correctly there is a Fat Clergyman and a Thin Clergyman the artwork very obviously was referring to the well known enthusiast the Rev Teddy Boston of Cadeby and Rev Awdry himself. I presume the two knew one another and were friends.

I can't imagine Rev Awdry would have deliberately insulted his friend?

From what I recall of photos of the late Rev Boston, like me he was a bit on the larger side, . If someone calls me fat well so be it it's true even though I have shed a couple of stone in past couple of years.

Take offence no! I worked with school children for 34 years and heard a few things said about me behind my back but it wasn't anything I would challenged because it is wrong to challenge the truth. Fat is a descriptive adjective. Is slim offensive as well or tall or short?

If I was sworn at I would take offence or if as reported in this story I was jumped on by some officious heritage railway staff member or volunteer for using words written into a child's book well yes I would take offence.

 

[Foxhunter]

Well, that escalated quickly.

if as reported in this story I was jumped on by some officious heritage railway staff member or volunteer

A Heritage railway volunteer was slightly brusque

something that sounds a bit like what a modern rentathug security guard in a hi-vis might say

All that from:

[Quote from Daily Mail article] a staff member requested that they refer to The Fat Controller by his real name, Sir Topham Hatt

Perhaps restrict your comments to the facts reported?

 

[Starmill]

Sir Topham was the name I always knew the figure by as a child in the UK. It's rather a fitting name given the hat isn't it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps restrict your comments to the facts reported?

There are more facts than that if you read the whole thing.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The thing is though from what I recall in The Railway Series of books the term fat was never used as a term of insult

Trouble is, words and their connotations/implications change over time. Compare any number of terms for people with disabilities, or the theme tune to the 60s Flintstones cartoons.

 

[John Luxton]

Well, that escalated quickly.




All that from:

Perhaps restrict your comments to the facts reported?

Someone was clearly upset.

Out of curiosity I just thought I would check out to see if anything had made Trip Advisor - which it has not.

However I did note a complaint made earlier this month from a visitor who was prevented from visiting the gift shop by a rude member of staff because they didn't have a travel ticket.

I must admit that is a very strange thing to do I think quite a few of us have been to heritage railway shops and not travelled. Could they have some staff / volunteers with attitude problems?

Thus this elevates possible customer relations beyond just the Fat Controller issue.

Personally I last visited the Mid Hants in the mid 1990s and it has been on my must visit again soon list and therefore have no recent experience of the line.

It will be interesting to see if the FC. story gets into the railway press.

It is now after just an hour or so one of the most commented on posts on the Daily Mail web site.

 

[Spartacus]

I wonder if it's got anything to do with the prevalence of something that sounds like Fat Cont-roller...? There used to be something immature but funny on YouTube but I don't know if it's still there or not...

 

[FatContr0ller]

Should I change my username then?!?

 

[John Luxton]

For those that thought this was the Daily Mail having one of their rants Googling through this story's occurrence it appears to have appeared in The Birmingham Mail and Sun some hours before the Mail picked it up.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Free publicity from the awful (?) dm, very good.

Are staff still asked to talk about "The Thomas Engine" © rather than "Thomas"?

 

[Revilo]

I’m surprised they’ve not made him transgender, maybe next year!

 

[DarloRich]

It is in the Daily Mail. The report wont be accurate. It is designed to make the easily upset angry and upset.

What they do is look for one person complaining about this sort of thing, make up a silly story, chuck in some trigger words for the angry people ( woke/pc/teans) and watch the outrage click bait roll in. It works. Other outlets then pick up on the story and amplify it further mainly reporting the outrage.

Hell, the times did it this week with a story about university reading lists that was manifactured nonsense.

I’m surprised they’ve not made him transgender, maybe next year!

And if they do so what?

 

[John Luxton]

It is in the Daily Mail. The report wont be accurate. It is designed to make the easily upset angry and upset.

What they do is look for one person complaining about this sort of thing, make up a silly story, chuck in some trigger words for the angry people ( woke/pc/teans) and watch the outrage click bait roll in. It works. Other outlets then pick up on the story and amplify it further mainly reporting the outrage.

Hell, the times did it this week with a story about university reading lists that was manifactured nonsense.


And if they do so what?

Yes but looking at the posting dates of the original story Birmingham Mail apparently posted about 5 hours earlier and Birmingham Mail were quoting the Sun, thus I wonder if it appeared in the other News International paper - The Times? I don't have a Times sub thus can't check perhaps someone who does can?

I think blaming the Daily Mail for this story is somewhat unfair.

One thing is clear we all seem to have our own preferred newspapers and are willing to criticize those we don't like and usually they are the newspapers which do not mirror our own viewpoints.

 

[DarloRich]

One thing is clear we all seem to have our own preferred newspapers and are willing to criticize those we don't like and usually they are the newspapers which do not mirror our own viewpoints.

I dont take any newspapers. Or the Daily Mail

 

[Enthusiast]

It makes me wonder what actually happened. If I had been referring to the Fat Controller privately and I was told to desist I might tell my tormentor to go forth and multiply.

One of the earlier handlers of the Thomas business attracted some ridicule when trying to protect what she saw as their "intellectual property":

Britt Allcroft’s lawsuit attempts | Fandom

This might sound crazy, but did you know that…

ttte.fandom.com

I'm rather disappointed that the Bluebell did not demand ongoing royalties every time a fake "Stepney" appeared or was mentioned in print.

 

[Strathclyder]

It is in the Daily Mail. The report wont be accurate. It is designed to make the easily upset angry and upset.

What they do is look for one person complaining about this sort of thing, make up a silly story, chuck in some trigger words for the angry people ( woke/pc/teans) and watch the outrage click bait roll in. It works. Other outlets then pick up on the story and amplify it further mainly reporting the outrage.

Hell, the times did it this week with a story about university reading lists that was manifactured nonsense.

This is the precise reason the DM and other established names of the same ilk haven't faded into irrelevance. They feed off of the outrage/frothing anger of the easily misled/perpetually angry among us with such nonsense and the rest of the media ecosystem helps it along by reporting on the outrage, blowing it even further out of proportion.

 

[John Luxton]

This is the precise reason the DM and other established names of the same ilk haven't faded into irrelevance. They feed off of the outrage/frothing anger of the easily misled/perpetually angry among us with such nonsense and the rest of the media ecosystem helps it along by reporting on the outrage, blowing it even further out of proportion.

I see what you are getting at but is it not the case than a significant number of people in the UK are small "c" conservatives who are resistant to change and see change as a something of a threat?

Is there anything wrong with that this crosses the party political divide. It is more of a age generational thing? Younger people are more likely to support such moves?

I worked with a couple of chaps who were confirmed Labour voters and on some topics were more right wing than me and I am conservative!

It makes me wonder what actually happened. If I had been referring to the Fat Controller privately and I was told to desist I might tell my tormentor to go forth and multiply.

One of the earlier handlers of the Thomas business attracted some ridicule when trying to protect what she saw as their "intellectual property":

Britt Allcroft’s lawsuit attempts | Fandom

This might sound crazy, but did you know that…

ttte.fandom.com

I'm rather disappointed that the Bluebell did not demand ongoing royalties every time a fake "Stepney" appeared or was mentioned in print.

I do wonder what the Rev Awdry would have thought about how his creation has been monetised and turned into a multi-million pound industry. He obviously had a nice little earner, and his son more so - but since it has passed to big business it appears to have grown out of all proportion.

 

[zwk500]

I see what you are getting at but is it not the case than a significant number of people in the UK are small "c" conservatives who are resistant to change and see change as a something of a threat?

A threat to what?

A lot of the change that is being resisted (by a small group of people wielding disproportionate influence, it must be said) is preventing changes that would make a real difference to people being marginalised or even persecuted for being different, whilst said change would have no direct negative effect on the people resisting it.

 

[John Luxton]

A threat to what?

A lot of the change that is being resisted (by a small group of people wielding disproportionate influence, it must be said) is preventing changes that would make a real difference to people being marginalised or even persecuted for being different, whilst said change would have no direct negative effect on the people resisting it.

People perceive it as a change to their "normal"? I can't see how using the term fat controller marginalizes anyone. I am on the large side - do I get offended if someone calls me fat? No, of course not just as I wouldn't expect someone who was thin being called thin. We come in all shapes and sizes and fat, thin, tall short etc is nothing more than a descriptive term, it not an offensive term unless used offensively and possibly accompanied by a swear word.

Fact is Sir Topham Hat is a controller and he is fat - just as I was a fat teacher! Just an accurate description. Nothing more, nothing less.

It does appear more and more people actually want to be offended or find things to be offended about.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Like those offended by being told to call the Fat Controller "Sir Topham Hatt"....

Swings and roundabouts..