The Fifteen Guinea Special

[Journeyman]

I took a very enjoyable trip on the SRPS railtour around the Fife Circle and down to Tweedbank yesterday, hauled by Black Five 44871. This loco was famously one of the four that handled The Fifteen Guinea Special on 11th August 1968, BR's final standard gauge steam-hauled train.

It got me interested in that trip, and I found out quite a lot online. Four locos were involved in total, of which three survive today (44871, 45110 and 70013). 44781 was scrapped. The train was formed of ten Mark 1 coaches, three in maroon and the rest in blue and grey, and apart from two kitchen cars, the whole train was formed of open second accommodation. Two vehicles from the train (M4933 and M4937) survive at the East Lancs railway.

Apart from a bit of late running, the whole thing seems to have run very smoothly, and obviously it got a LOT of attention from photographers. Much has been made of the cost of the tickets, but I wonder if people are perhaps being a bit harsh. Maybe BR did profiteer a bit, but in "today's money", it cost about £260. For an eleven-hour trip, with four locos involved, morning coffee and two meals thrown in, complete with a bit of alcohol included, it doesn't seem like bad value. Obviously it's still a lot of money and it was beyond the reach of a lot of people, but I don't think it's beyond the amount of money people fork out for things today.

Apparently about fifty seats on the train were empty.

Did anyone here travel on it? Any recollections? Anecdotes? Memories? How about reflections on the aftermath? It must have been quite a moment to see it trundle away into the distance, thinking that was steam gone forever.

 

[Cowley]

This is a bit random and I’m not sure if it’s correct, but was the other Black 5 (44781) the loco used in the film Onwards Virgin Soldiers?
They used a Black 5 turned into a pseudo Malaysian(?) locomotive in a staged rail crash the the jungle (but actually some disused line in the UK somewhere).
Does that count as a reflection on the aftermath?

 

[Journeyman]

This is a bit random and I’m not sure if it’s correct, but was the other Black 5 (44781) the loco used in the film Onwards Virgin Soldiers?
They used a Black 5 turned into a pseudo Malaysian(?) locomotive in a staged rail crash the the jungle (but actually some disused line in the UK somewhere).
Does that count as a reflection on the aftermath?

I'm pretty sure you're right about that - shame it was lost, but three out of four survivors ain't bad!

 

[yorksrob]

£260 does seem unduly extortionate for a railtour. Perhaps that's the cost of having four locos.

 

[Journeyman]

£260 does seem unduly extortionate for a railtour. Perhaps that's the cost of having four locos.

Well, there are tours that have cost that much recently, and it was quite a big day out, in terms of what was provided. But yes, four locos after a steam-free week as well, which is quite interesting!

Many of the Northern Belle's days out cost £300+, but admittedly that's the hardcore luxury end of the market and nothing like stuff that's aimed at enthusiasts.

 

[d9009alycidon]

This is a bit random and I’m not sure if it’s correct, but was the other Black 5 (44781) the loco used in the film Onwards Virgin Soldiers?
They used a Black 5 turned into a pseudo Malaysian(?) locomotive in a staged rail crash the the jungle (but actually some disused line in the UK somewhere).
Does that count as a reflection on the aftermath?

The Disused Stations Website tells the full story here http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/virgin_soldiers/index.shtml The station was Bartlow on the Cambridge (Shelford Junction) - Sudbury line.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, there are tours that have cost that much recently, and it was quite a big day out, in terms of what was provided. But yes, four locos after a steam-free week as well, which is quite interesting!

Many of the Northern Belle's days out cost £300+, but admittedly that's the hardcore luxury end of the market and nothing like stuff that's aimed at enthusiasts.

Indeed. I don't believe the route was particularly long ranging by the standards of many railtours. Manchester - Liverpool - Carlisle I think.

 

[Journeyman]

The Disused Stations Website tells the full story here http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/virgin_soldiers/index.shtml The station was Bartlow on the Cambridge (Shelford Junction) - Sudbury line.

Wow - very interesting! Especially that the loco wasn't destroyed during the filming, and how it came to be chosen in the first place.

 

[Journeyman]

Indeed. I don't believe the route was particularly long ranging by the standards of many railtours. Manchester - Liverpool - Carlisle I think.

It was eleven hours in total, which was quite impressive, and also took steam outside the Lancashire "Clinker Triangle" for the first time in a couple of years.

 

[Peter C]

I have a copy of Railway Magazine from October 1968, and it says the following about the Fifteen Guinea Special, if anyone is interested:

Four locomotives took part in British Railways last steam train journey over standard-gauge track, 1 314-mile round trip from Liverpool, on Sunday, August 11. Fare of 15 guineas paid by the 420 passengers included a cold lunch with champagne and other refreshments, as well as a souvenir scroll and ticket. Stanier class "5" 4-6-0 No. 45110 stormed out of Lime Street Station (above) at the head of ten coaches, simultaneously with the 09.10 electric-hauled express to Euston. Photographic stops were made at Rainhill - site of the locomotive trials of 1829 - and Parkside on the first stage to Manchester Victoria, where (above left) "Britannia" Pacific No. 70013, "Oliver Cromwell", took over thence to Carlisle via Blackburn (left) and Ais Gill (continued overleaf)

Hopefully just putting this here as basic info about the event is alright.

-Peter

 

[Cowley]

The Disused Stations Website tells the full story here http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/virgin_soldiers/index.shtml The station was Bartlow on the Cambridge (Shelford Junction) - Sudbury line.

That’s a great article, thanks for that.

 

[Grumpy]

Drove to a spot near Ribblehead to see/photograph the northbound train. It was a lovely sunny day. Remember it being difficult to find a parking space there were so many cars. Also remember feeling it was an anti-climax when Cromwell passed-just felt like an ordinary train possibly because the loco didn't seem to be working hard. Given that it was supposedly the last day steam would work on the UK mainline and there were thousands watching, perhaps thrashing the loco uphill might have made a more memorable impression.

 

[The Lad]

Ah Ribblehead, I stuck a penny on the line, it fell off before the train passed.

 

[70014IronDuke]

"Four locomotives took part in British Railways last steam train journey over standard-gauge track, 1 314-mile round trip from Liverpool, on Sunday, August 11. ... "

Just shows you couldn't trust the media any more then than now, eh

It was not, of course, the last train. In fact, as far as many of us were concerned at the time, the only thing genuinely special about the 15-guinea special was the price. 4472 was still able to work trains, and it was only a matter of time before they allowed steam again. That time was incredibly short - 1970, I think. Certainly by 1971, as I remember photographing 60007 at Malton that year.
In fact, I'm surprised some of those that went on the train in 1968 didn't sue for the money back!

The REAL last train was the 21.25 Preston to Liverpool on Aug 3. That was the last scheduled steam-hauled train, one which John and Mary Public could go up to a booking office window, pay for a BR ticket and travel behind steam. (Not counting the VoR, of course, nor the shunt of the sleeper performed by the Black 5 at Preston in the early hours of Aug 04.)

 

[d9009alycidon]

"Four locomotives took part in British Railways last steam train journey over standard-gauge track, 1 314-mile round trip from Liverpool, on Sunday, August 11. ... "

Just shows you couldn't trust the media any more then than now, eh

It was not, of course, the last train. In fact, as far as many of us were concerned at the time, the only thing genuinely special about the 15-guinea special was the price. 4472 was still able to work trains, and it was only a matter of time before they allowed steam again. That time was incredibly short - 1970, I think. Certainly by 1971, as I remember photographing 60007 at Malton that year.
In fact, I'm surprised some of those that went on the train in 1968 didn't sue for the money back!

The REAL last train was the 21.25 Preston to Liverpool on Aug 3. That was the last scheduled steam-hauled train, one which John and Mary Public could go up to a booking office window, pay for a BR ticket and travel behind steam. (Not counting the VoR, of course, nor the shunt of the sleeper performed by the Black 5 at Preston in the early hours of Aug 04.)

Even that statment is not strictly true, for a while in 1993 you could walk into the booking office at Perth and buy a ticket on the daily driver training run behind 60009. Service ran from Perth to Springburn via Lenzie and back via Cumbernauld, stopping at Springburn and Stirling!

 

[Journeyman]

The REAL last train was the 21.25 Preston to Liverpool on Aug 3. That was the last scheduled steam-hauled train, one which John and Mary Public could go up to a booking office window, pay for a BR ticket and travel behind steam. (Not counting the VoR, of course, nor the shunt of the sleeper performed by the Black 5 at Preston in the early hours of Aug 04.)

Of course - I'm aware that the Fifteen Guinea Special sort of doesn't count! How much of the week between the 3rd/4th and 11th was actually steam-free? There's been quite a lot of speculation about various steam movements over those days.

 

[d9009alycidon]

I was pleased to discover that the Lostock Hall MPD website has been resurrected as part of the Preston Station Website. http://www.prestonstation.org.uk/10D/grandfinale.html is the page with all the details of the final day, what locomotive was where and when.

 

[Journeyman]

I was pleased to discover that the Lostock Hall MPD website has been resurrected as part of the Preston Station Website. http://www.prestonstation.org.uk/10D/grandfinale.html is the page with all the details of the final day, what locomotive was where and when.

That's a really interesting read, and probably the definitive answer to what was where on the final sort-of-regular day. Effectively, as far as I can tell, there were three days that could be deemed "last days" of steam:

• 3rd August: Last regular passenger workings (and presumably some freights?)
• 4th August: Six railtours, some shunting etc., final day of day-in, day-out steam working with a heritage right back to the start of railways.
• 11th August: Last-ever BR-operated steam train, the Fifteen Guinea Special, after a week without any steam operating.

 

[SquireBev]

The REAL last train was the 21.25 Preston to Liverpool on Aug 3. That was the last scheduled steam-hauled train, one which John and Mary Public could go up to a booking office window, pay for a BR ticket and travel behind steam. (Not counting the VoR, of course, nor the shunt of the sleeper performed by the Black 5 at Preston in the early hours of Aug 04.)

I was idly wondering to myself yesterday about that - what was the actual last steam-hauled scheduled service - thanks for answering my question before I even knew I wanted to ask it!

Is there anywhere online with more information about this last service?

 

[Journeyman]

The REAL last train was the 21.25 Preston to Liverpool on Aug 3. That was the last scheduled steam-hauled train, one which John and Mary Public could go up to a booking office window, pay for a BR ticket and travel behind steam.

Did that service operate via Ormskirk? I think the line was still open as a through route at the time.

 

[70014IronDuke]

That's a really interesting read, and probably the definitive answer to what was where on the final sort-of-regular day. Effectively, as far as I can tell, there were three days that could be deemed "last days" of steam:

• 3rd August: Last regular passenger workings (and presumably some freights?)

Yes. There were, I think, at the VERY least two freight workings to/from Padiham Power station, which was near Rose Grove shed, Burnley. Because I saw and (tried to ) photograph these. But I'm 98% sure there were other freight workings - but not many on a Saturday, of course.

You should know that the vast majority of steam turns in the last month or so were freight. Passenger workings in the last week, ie up to and including August 3rd, could be counted on the fingers of one hand.

4th August: Six railtours, some shunting etc., final day of day-in, day-out steam working with a heritage right back to the start of railways.

Well, it wasn't really a normal Sunday. I think there is an argument over whether there was one ballast working apart from the specials.

11th August: Last-ever BR-operated steam train, the Fifteen Guinea Special, after a week without any steam operating.

That's not a bad summary.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I was idly wondering to myself yesterday about that - what was the actual last steam-hauled scheduled service - thanks for answering my question before I even knew I wanted to ask it!

Apart from the Vale of Rheidol - which was an anachronism, and the fact that the Saturday night Barrow (?) sleeper had two sleeping cars removed at Preston (kind of 04.00 arrival) removed and shunted into a bay at Preston by the Black 5 off the 20.50 Preston - Blackpool Sth working - yes.

In other words, as far as the man on the Clapham omnibus was concerned, yes. This was the last regular, scheduled BR steam-hauled service.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Did that service operate via Ormskirk? I think the line was still open as a through route at the time.

Yes indeed. We went through Ormskirk at approx 60 mph.

 

[L+Y]

Did that service operate via Ormskirk? I think the line was still open as a through route at the time.

Yes it did- Preston to Liverpool Exchange via Ormskirk. There's an account of the working on the Lostock Hall website.

 

[Journeyman]

Yes. There were, I think, at the VERY least two freight workings to/from Padiham Power station, which was near Rose Grove shed, Burnley. Because I saw and (tried to ) photograph these. But I'm 98% sure there were other freight workings - but not many on a Saturday, of course.

You should know that the vast majority of steam turns in the last month or so were freight. Passenger workings in the last week, ie up to and including August 3rd, could be counted on the fingers of one hand.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I'm assuming the final train was diagrammed, but was there a lot of unpredictability on what passenger trains would show up with steam in the final month?

Well, it wasn't really a normal Sunday. I think there is an argument over whether there was one ballast working apart from the specials.

Oh, I appreciate that, I just meant it was the last day of continuous steam operation, where BR crews fired up and drove locos as they had on previous days.

 

[70014IronDuke]

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I'm assuming the final train was diagrammed, but was there a lot of unpredictability on what passenger trains would show up with steam in the final month?

Ha! Difficult to answer that question in the sense that "a lot of" does not really tally with the steam-hauled passenger trains - there were so FEW of them

Well, that's at least as I remember, but I could only get up to Lancashire on the penultimate Tuesday of steam - I guess that was - quick google - 23 of July. I spent the days in Lancashire/Cumbria and the nights in Mk 1 compartments in overnight trains between Carlisle/Barrow and Euston. I can't remember asking, but I'm pretty sure there was nothing regular steam hauled earlier in July, except
perhaps the 20.50 Preston - Blackpool on Saturdays, which came off a London-Carlisle working (I think) - would it have been something like 17.05 ex-Euston?

Anyway, on the penultimate Saturday, that was a Black 5. I think it was 4 or 5 coaches, swamped with enthusiasts. The atmosphere was tremendous, and at that point I decided I simply had to be up for the final show a week later. It was history, and impossible to miss.

Except I had a problem, or two. First, my LMR rover was to run out at 23.59 on the next Monday. I didn't have the cash for another one, not even asking with a squeaky high voice, IYSWIM

Second, I'd agreed to go on a cycling holiday with schoolfriends, starting on Mon, August 05 - which meant things were going to be very tight if I was still in Lancashire late on August 03.

The solution was an immediate overnight back south, home for a bath and some clean clothes (don't ask) and back up to buy a seven-day NW Runabout. This meant the best - or better put, least-worst - kip on the cushions was Carlise to Skipton (a bit less than 2 hours) on the Glasgow - St Pancras sleeper - a miserable wait of about an hour from about 02.30 to 03.30 - and then back to Carlisle again on the down sleeper. I did this at least twice without oversleeping and going beyond the legitimate limits of the ticket.

I think I found another weary friend one night, and at Carlisle we left on the first up departure behind a Cl 50 - c 06.00 hrs. That morning we passed a Black 5 hauling a failed 2-car DMU. I think it was south of Oxehnolme and the train was bound for Windermere - surely the last steam-hauled failed DMU on BR! I'm not sure, but I think this was Tuesday morning, July 30.

That week, the rumour mill was strong as to what would be the last steam-hauled train. AFAIK there was no other steam turn until Friday, August 02, when the 21.25 Preston - Liverpool was a Black 5. I didn't see that. Despite the kindness of another enthusiast's mother in Skipton putting me up for a night or two, I was so knacked on the Friday night I paid for a B*B in Preston, just down the road from the overbridge north of Preston station. I think it was 28 shillings, or £1.40p in new money (that hurt, but I could hardly think I was so tired).

Then, on Saturday 3rd, all the intelligence reports were that Lostock Hall would put Black 5s on both the 20.50 Preston-Blackpool and 21.25 Preston-Liverpool. And so it transpired.

I have wondered it this was just the shed foreman working with what he had, or if someone higher up had wisely issued instructions to have the two trains steam worked in an attempt to manage the crowds. Because both trains were swarming with enthusiasts - and had there been just one working, it would have been potentially dangerous overcrowding.

I got on the footplate at Liverpool Exchange with the rafters echoing to the strains of "Steam goes marching on" from the crowd. What passing 'normals' thought I don't know. It was madness.

Along with about seven others, plus driver and fireman, we left light engine to return to 10D, but as the Jethro Tull song goes, they mostly dropped off one by one (well, four at Aintree, I think it was) and there was me and another chap, plus driver Ernie Hayes (spelling?) and fireman left when we got on shed. I presume we shook hands, said thank you, and then off we walked, starting around 23.30, to Preston station.

Such were the overnight services back then that it was simply turn up and go at Preston. My footplate companion and I parted our ways, I found a Mk 1 SK in some overnight Glasgow - Euston consist and woke up at Euston, thankfully undisturbed by any gripper eager to issue an excess Wigan to Euston - because I don't think I would have had the dosh.

At Euston, in the early light I passed scores of RCTS (or maybe LCGB) folks heading north on the first leg of one or more of the six specials. I remember watching them and thinking, smugly - "You've missed the real thing, lads."

But perhaps I wasn't smug - because as far as I was concerned, it was true - they had.

 

[Journeyman]

Absolutely brilliant account, thanks so much for sharing.

I wasn't there, but in my defence, I wasn't born until 1974...

 

[70014IronDuke]

Absolutely brilliant account, thanks so much for sharing.

I wasn't there, but in my defence, I wasn't born until 1974...

I've heard various excuses, but that takes the biscuit.

It's just come to me - the four left at Bank Hall, not Aintree. One or two more left somewhere else, perhaps that was Aintree.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Well, talk about coincidence!

I've just found an email sent to me in 2008 by Alan Castle, then (and perhaps still) of Bredbury, Stockport.

It has an attachment, which Alan has designated as Update#1 to Bookazine (I don't understand that) but it is a large document under the title Final Steam Workings 1968.

Not only had I forgotten I'd got this (and not looked at it for a decade), but I wasn't even looking for it. By bizarre coincidence, I had done a search in my emails with the word "rendezvous" - chosen entirely at random for the purpose of finding old old emails with large attachments in order to delete them. (My in box has 32,000 emails and my system is flagged as over full).

And this email came up at the end of the search.

Here is the first entry of said attachment.

1. Which actually WAS the final steam-hauled freight working of all?
   

The final freight workings (as opposed to mere yard-shunt duties) occurred on Aug 3rd 1968.

Carnforth Trip No 49, the 14.55 Heysham – Carnforth, hauled by Std. 4MT 4-6-0 No 75019 (10A), is generally attributed with this honour. However, there were actually 2 other workings in the Rose Grove area during the afternoon of that same day, both of which, hitherto, have failed to be included in any published records.

The first occurred with Stanier 8F 2-8-0 No 48393 (10F), which, that morning, during the course of working either Rose Grove shed’s 22 Target or 86 Target, had taken a loaded coal train from Burnley or Rose Grove Grid to Huncoat Power Station.

<MY NOTE HERE - THIS IS THE FREIGHT I PHOTOGRAPHED (RATHER BADLY) - as mentioned earlier>

Upon arrival, working in accordance with ‘Control Orders’, the crew were then asked to take a train of coal empties up to Portsmouth Loop (just beyond Copy Pit summit) for collection on Monday August 5th (and onwards transfer to Healey Mills yard). In some published photographs of the last day specials passing by the following day, these very wagons are seen still standing in the loop.

No 48393, in the event, ran unassisted up the bank, ending its journey shortly after the final banker, No 48278, had already departed for Rose Grove shed and withdrawal. Upon its own return to Rose Grove, No 48393 also went on shed, again to be officially condemned.

Also that afternoon, sister loco No 48348 (10F) was used to work another trip duty (probably No 92 Target) to Burnley Central, where, at 15:30, it was seen awaiting return light to Rose Grove and inevitable withdrawal.

From all of the aforesaid, it would, therefore, appear that Nos 75019 and 48348 were completing their respective duties at opposite sides of Lancashire at approximately the same instant. Clarification of actual times is, therefore, requested from anyone who was there at the time.
END point 1

 

[satisnek]

What intrigues me are the two surviving coaches on the ELR. These are late-build Mk1s which would have been less than 10 years old in 1968. Surely they would have been required for front-line services back then, so what were they doing in a railtour?