The Hatfield Rail Crash aftermath

[edwin_m]

Similar recording was carried out by LAB5 pre the New train. However the main concern was Top and Line faults plus Twist.
I cannot recall any recording being made of Rail condition.
I went on LAB 5 a number of times as Area Civil Engineer's Rep in the early 90's, to get an early read of any trouble spots and report them to the office.
The Sprinter Track recorder was also in use from the mid 80's again I travelled on this as well.

Also the High Speed Track Recording coach, which was built new for the purpose at the end of the Mk2 production line in the early 70s. Lab 5 in its various incarnations (it was at least three different vehicles over the years) was used to prove new equipment and on occasion to supplement the other test cars. The equipment would have been updated several times during the lifetime of these vehicles and I agree the emphasis was originally on geometry. You would probably need ultrasound to detect gauge corner cracking, which was originally done by separate vehicles at low speed but may have been integrated onto the track recording vehicles later on.

 

[Bikeman78]

Did not the cessation of rail grinding by Railtrack expedite these problems. ? Presumably to save money.

Told by a certain MD , that the South Wales Valleys never had issues as the then 142/143 sets in traffic acted as rail grinders in service. This may be a rail myth.

The Severn tunnel rail debacle ought to have been a stark warning to Railtrack but it went unheeded. For those that don't know, the whole tunnel was subject to a 20 mph temporary speed restriction in 1998 or 1999. Good fun for class 37 or HST bashers though. They replaced the rails over a few weeks, so there was a period when you would crawl down the the bottom of the tunnel and then go to full power for the climb back out where the line speed reverted to 75 mph.

As regards the valleys, I don't think they were affected much by the post Hatfield restrictions. One rarely gets much over 50 mph anyway. The London, Tilbury and Southend seemed to escape too.

 

[Harpo]

Told by a certain MD , that the South Wales Valleys never had issues as the then 142/143 sets in traffic acted as rail grinders in service. This may be a rail myth.

Assuming they were in contact with the low rail on curves……

I’d guess that pacers possibly hunted in much the same way as 1st generation DMUs and mk1s at high speeds?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Assuming they were in contact with the low rail on curves……

I’d guess that pacers possibly hunted in much the same way as 1st generation DMUs and mk1s at high speeds?

Very differently as they are not bogie vehicles. A pacer hunting at 60mph+ is arguably a more alarming experience in my view, as the entire coach lurches side-to-side rather than just the bogies (as there aren’t any.) Also in my personal experience Class 14x hunting - true hunting, not just bouncing/ rough riding - occurred on straight CWR, and ceased on curves / point work, presumably because the variation of track geometry would break up the natural resonance within the primary suspension which caused the hunting in the first place.

(When Wessex were absorbed into FGW the 143s transferred to St Philips Marsh were dreadful for plain line hunting, allegedly because SPM had inadequate tire turning facilities and the wheel reprofiling regime was very inadequate, meaning that sets were running on badly profiled wheels which contributes to the hunting mechanism.)

 

[edwin_m]

Also in my personal experience Class 14x hunting - true hunting, not just bouncing/ rough riding - occurred on straight CWR, and ceased on curves / point work, presumably because the variation of track geometry would break up the natural resonance within the primary suspension which caused the hunting in the first place.

I think with any vehicle hunting is less likely on curves, assuming there is some cant deficiency as there normally would be. This probably prevents the hunting oscillation building up as it opposes the lateral motion from the outer rail towards the inner one, whereas on straight track the only opposing force comes from the wheel conicity and any dampers in the suspension.

Yaw dampers (the horizontal shock absorbers slung between a bracket on the bogie and one on the body) tend to suppress the bogie rotation that is part of the hunting cycle. In the absence of bogies it's probably physically impossible to fit a yaw damper to a Pacer - maybe between adjacent vehicles but with a two-car set I think that might just set the two oscillating in antiphase. But note that 75mph Sprinters don't have yaw dampers whereas the faster EMUs and Turbostars with the same basic bogie design do, and I'm not aware of hunting being an issue with any of these classes. Other things being equal a Pacer should be less prone to hunting than a Sprinter because the moment of inertia of the whole body is much greater than that of a bogie, but if hunting sets in it is likely to be more severe for the same reason.

On bogie vehicles the yaw damper also resists the bogie aligning itself on the track on curves, resulting in the front wheelset being closer to the outer rail than would otherwise be the case and potentially contributing to gauge corner cracking.

 

[D1537]

Given that said psychic was (and this is a hill I'm happy to die on) undoubtedly pulling numbers out of her posterior, a whole lot of trouble would've been saved if she'd happened to pick random digits that didn't correspond to an actual locomotive...

According to Rail Express - "All was routine until the end of 1981, when a clairvoyant contacted British Rail to say she had a recurring vision of a fatal train crash involving a big blue engine with the number 47216 hauling oil tankers.
Depot managers were told her predictions had previously been taken seriously by the police, and so made a special application to headquarters to change the loco’s number."

I am quite in agreement with you on the existence of precognition, but if the RE quote is correct, that's a spectacular coincidence (although of course the locomotive was numbered 47299 by then).

 

[Route115?]

The Severn tunnel rail debacle ought to have been a stark warning to Railtrack but it went unheeded. For those that don't know, the whole tunnel was subject to a 20 mph temporary speed restriction in 1998 or 1999. Good fun for class 37 or HST bashers though. They replaced the rails over a few weeks, so there was a period when you would crawl down the the bottom of the tunnel and then go to full power for the climb back out where the line speed reverted to 75 mph.

As regards the valleys, I don't think they were affected much by the post Hatfield restrictions. One rarely gets much over 50 mph anyway. The London, Tilbury and Southend seemed to escape too.

I commuted on Chiltern at the time and that wasn't hit too hard either.

 

[Statto]

It brought the demise of Railtrack, how can you have a listed company on the stock market responsible for the health & safety of Rail travellers.

The weeks after Hatfield were horrendous, Liverpool - Euston trains were taking 6 hours from the normal 2 hrs 45 min, this was pre 390s, i remember reading a story from around that time someone taking 10 hours to get from Preston to Leeds

 

[Bikeman78]

It brought the demise of Railtrack, how can you have a listed company on the stock market responsible for the health & safety of Rail travellers.

The weeks after Hatfield were horrendous, Liverpool - Euston trains were taking 6 hours from the normal 2 hrs 45 min, this was pre 390s, i remember reading a story from around that time someone taking 10 hours to get from Preston to Leeds

The restrictions varied a lot by route. I don't recall Cardiff to Paddington being too bad. However, Bridgend to Cardiff was 20 mph, so trains were taking 60 minutes instead of 20 minutes. I had the misfortune to work at National Rail Enquiries at the time. The info from the TOCs varied massively. WAGN stated the hourly departure times from King's Cross, Cambridge and Peterborough, but had no idea how long the trains would take to get anywhere. For anyone calling from any other station, we had no useful info to give. It was a nightmare for all concerned.

 

[Bald Rick]

how can you have a listed company on the stock market responsible for the health & safety of Rail travellers.

Like First Group, for example?

 

[Magdalia]

WAGN stated the hourly departure times from King's Cross, Cambridge and Peterborough, but had no idea how long the trains would take to get anywhere. For anyone calling from any other station, we had no useful info to give. It was a nightmare for all concerned.

Locally the timetable was known. I still have a copy of the emergency timetable dated 21 October 2000.

I also have an undated one page of A5, which I think must have been from the day after the derailment, and looked roughly like this:

Services to and from London Kings Cross

Cambridge to Kings Cross
xx:24 and xx:54 past each hour

Kings Cross to Cambridge
xx:06 and xx:36 past each hour

Approximate journey time 1 and a half hours
Last train from Cambridge 23:24
Last train from kings Cross 00:06​

There was also a manuscript addition: On the hour shuttle last 23:24

I think that means on the hour Cambridge-Royston with the 23:24 up being a 4 car train and stopping at the villages.

​

 

[Bikeman78]

Locally the timetable was known. I still have a copy of the emergency timetable dated 21 October 2000.

I also have an undated one page of A5, which I think must have been from the day after the derailment, and looked roughly like this:

Services to and from London Kings Cross

Cambridge to Kings Cross
xx:24 and xx:54 past each hour

Kings Cross to Cambridge
xx:06 and xx:36 past each hour

Approximate journey time 1 and a half hours
Last train from Cambridge 23:24
Last train from kings Cross 00:06​

There was also a manuscript addition: On the hour shuttle last 23:24

I think that means on the hour Cambridge-Royston with the 23:24 up being a 4 car train and stopping at the villages.

​

Did the timetable have times for intermediate calling points? If I recall correctly, it took over a week for the computer systems to be updated. Expecting people in Wales (which is where the call centre was based) to know the journey times from Cambridge to each of the subsequent stations was a bit of a tall order. We were literally told the origin departure times. That was it.

 

[Magdalia]

Did the timetable have times for intermediate calling points? If I recall correctly, it took over a week for the computer systems to be updated. Expecting people in Wales (which is where the call centre was based) to know the journey times from Cambridge to each of the subsequent stations was a bit of a tall order. We were literally told the origin departure times. That was it.

In the 21 October timetable yes.