The last cross-country trains with a full restaurant car service

[AY1975]

Following on from the existing thread on the 1980s Cross-Country Grill hot buffet service at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cross-country-grill-hot-buffet-service.253786/ and this one from two years ago on the evolution of cross-country services at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/the-evolution-of-cross-country.221293/ can anyone remember when the last cross-country trains with a full restaurant car service ran and which trains these were? I believe that there were a few of them back in the day, such as The Cornishman.

 

[30907]

In the late 70s (pre HST) the morning Bristol-Newcastle and 1615ish return, the Newcastle-Poole and ISTR the Devonian. Possibly also the Newcastle-Cardiff/Swansea but I'm not sure.

 

[Magdalia]

Restaurant cars lasted right up to the introduction of HSTs.

In the 1981 timetable the following had the knife and fork symbol:

0753 Leeds-Penzance
0750 Newcastle-Poole
0950 Edinburgh-Plymouth
1343 Glasgow-Bristol
1750 Glasgow-Birmingham

0810 Birmingham-Glasgow
0811 Bristol-Glasgow
0736 Plymouth-Edinburgh
1135 Poole-Newcastle
1021 Penzance-Leeds

Go back to 1980 and the list would also have included these:

0700 Newcastle-Bristol
1028 Leeds-Paignton
1615 Newcastle-Cardiff

0740 Cardiff-Newcastle
1053 Paignton-Leeds
1608 Bristol-Newcastle

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The Anglo-Scot sets that split/joined Edinburgh and Glasgow portions at Carstairs until
1991 usually consisted of a pair of 5-coach sets sandwiching a Mark 1 RBK. I always imagined these provided proper dining facilities, was this not the case? If I recall correctly they included through cross-country expresses to Plymouth, Penzance and Brighton.

 

[gaillark]

I remember the Cross Country Grill. Also the Midland line HST's that terminated at Leicester from St Pancras had the Capital Grill.
A few had a chef on board who cooked fresh to order and in the days when the resturant car was declassified the meals were served sometimes in a plastic tray or on a china plate which was common on the Midland. Other times especially cross London IC trains had microwaved meals and I must say the quality was good including the steak and kidney pie.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The Anglo-Scot sets that split/joined Edinburgh and Glasgow portions at Carstairs until
1991 usually consisted of a pair of 5-coach sets sandwiching a Mark 1 RBK. I always imagined these provided proper dining facilities, was this not the case? If I recall correctly they included through cross-country expresses to Plymouth, Penzance and Brighton.

Looking at the 1986 GBRT table 51 the trains shown as IC125s had a hot buffet symbol (fork on plate) meaning hot snacks, hot and cold drinks.

The non IC125 services has the cup and saucer symbol meaning a buffet counter service of drinks and cold snacks.

 

[Flying Phil]

Whilst not strictly relevant, there is still the delight of a proper meal or hot buffet on several heritage railways. The GCR breakfast is highly recommended as are their dining trains.

 

[robert thomas]

On Sunday 8th May 1983 there was a full restaurant service on the 16.19 Newcastle-Swansea. I was travelling in a group of 20 or so and had arranged with the Swansea catering crew a few weeks before that there would be a full restaurant service in place of the normal offering. I seem to remember that we had also agreed a menu in advance.

 

[Steve4031]

In 1988 I enjoyed breakfast in the restaurant car while traveling from Glasgow to Crewe. I also had an excellent dinner in the restaurant car on the line between Penzance and London. I remember eating Yorkshire pudding.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

In 1988 I enjoyed breakfast in the restaurant car while traveling from Glasgow to Crewe. I also had an excellent dinner in the restaurant car on the line between Penzance and London. I remember eating Yorkshire pudding.

Those were probably a both London services which still had then (and in the case of Penzance even now) full meal services.

 

[hexagon789]

The Anglo-Scot sets that split/joined Edinburgh and Glasgow portions at Carstairs until
1991 usually consisted of a pair of 5-coach sets sandwiching a Mark 1 RBK

They were RBRs and it was usually just a buffet service, and not even the whole way normally.

 

[Taunton]

Mine probably the oldest recollection.

Bristol to Taunton, coming home, 1960s. There was a 1700 (5pm in old money) which had come through from Manchester via Hereford, in the 50 minutes to Taunton there was nice time to board at the restaurant car where afternoon tea was served. My mother enjoyed all this as much as me. Toasted tea cakes, the small pots of jam, which at the time were unique to the railway, big pieces of fruit cake, etc. Sometimes there was disorganisation, and the Bradford to Plymouth "Devonian" (the "Devvy" at Taunton), due out at about 1620, might still be around by 1700, and there was a choice of which was first to go; on an odd occasion the two Warships raced along a block apart.

Both had restaurant crews who had been up all day, having done lunch, and at least once the tea menu was supplemented by left-over puddings from the lunch service, offered via one's mother in a somewhat lowered, almost conspiratorial voice by the chief steward! All best appreciated in late autumn, dark by this time, trees bare, maybe even snow on the ground (we used to have loads then). It's an easy route for the loco crew, controller right round at Bristol TM, leave it there. 75mph by Weston, over 80 by Bridgwater, smash over the diamond crossing of the Athelney branch at Durston, forever the roughest moment in the trip, few minutes gained to Taunton. Was that one of the stewards nipping up the platform there to the Warship with a couple of old BR mugs of tea?

 

[Rescars]

Restaurant cars lasted right up to the introduction of HSTs.

In the 1981 timetable the following had the knife and fork symbol:

0753 Leeds-Penzance
0750 Newcastle-Poole
0950 Edinburgh-Plymouth
1343 Glasgow-Bristol
1750 Glasgow-Birmingham

0810 Birmingham-Glasgow
0811 Bristol-Glasgow
0736 Plymouth-Edinburgh
1135 Poole-Newcastle
1021 Penzance-Leeds

Go back to 1980 and the list would also have included these:

0700 Newcastle-Bristol
1028 Leeds-Paignton
1615 Newcastle-Cardiff

0740 Cardiff-Newcastle
1053 Paignton-Leeds
1608 Bristol-Newcastle

A hazy memory makes me question if all these services offered full dining throughout. For example, IIRC, some Bristol - Glasgow services only provided catering north of Birmingham (in reality Stafford).

 

[Taunton]

A hazy memory makes me question if all these services offered full dining throughout. For example, IIRC, some Bristol - Glasgow services only provided catering north of Birmingham (in reality Stafford).

That was a common feature, especially as main meals tended to be organised as a "sitting". The kitchen normally just did not have enough space do do it otherwise, aided by many of the catering staff, certainly on the Western, having come from a common background of catering like this in the military - Plymouth crews were invariably ex-Royal Navy.

In the old BR timetables, the separate one for the Reading to Paddington section showed the relevant catering symbol above all Up long distance services. but it is a moot point whether any of them ever offered anything on that leg, even the buffet invariably having cashed up and closed before then.

 

[Magdalia]

A hazy memory makes me question if all these services offered full dining throughout. For example, IIRC, some Bristol - Glasgow services only provided catering north of Birmingham (in reality Stafford).

You are almost right, in 1981 the catering on the Birmingham/Bristol-Glasgow trains was advertised between Wolverhampton and Glasgow in each direction.

The Leeds-Penzance and return did not have catering west of Plymouth. In this case the catering car was probably detached there, like on the Paddington-Penzance trains.

 

[Rescars]

You are almost right, in 1981 the catering on the Birmingham/Bristol-Glasgow trains was advertised between Wolverhampton and Glasgow in each direction.

The Leeds-Penzance and return did not have catering west of Plymouth. In this case the catering car was probably detached there, like on the Paddington-Penzance trains.

IIRC the catering crew for Bristol - Glasgow joined the train at Birmingham. They would have needed the length of the Stour Valley if not a little further to clean the surfaces, check the stock (i.e. tins of beer etc), and sust(entation) [splendid archaic terminology!] (i.e. contents of the fridge), get the water up to boiling in the Stills set for tea and coffee, assemble some sandwiches for the buffet and lay out the tablecloths. Meanwhile, as Taunton implies, the cook would have begun preparations for the first sitting in the kitchen.

 

[Highview]

A little off topic, but does anyone remember that sometimes when a train with a restaurant car arrived at a station the chef/a catering staff member would be leaning out of a door window - I think I read once that they were on the look out for an inspector or was it for another reason? I have seen this myself.

 

[Taunton]

I think 'chef leaning out' was the best advertisement they could have for passengers on the platform to come along for something to eat. Maybe the chef also was looking for a bit of a clue for what the demand might be going forward.

It also got very steamy and airless in the train kitchen, so as it slowed to a stand it was a good chance to get some fresh air.

 

[Rescars]

In certain circumstances it was helpful to know once the train had the road and got the right away. With no more passengers joining and blocking the corridor, service could go ahead unhindered. Prompt service was sometimes essential to get everything served, consumed and paid for before the train reached its destination.