The various news outlets and whether they are biased to the left or the right.

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AM9

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Considering it's Johnson, he probably didn't know, lol. As for the press, there are left wing and right wing press, and trying to pretend it only goes one way isn't a smart thing to do, it just says what your own political bent is.

mods note - split from this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/when-will-it-all-go-wrong-for-the-tories-johnson.219414/


If he didn't know then he's incompetent and shouldn't be in the job.
Oh, this myth again. Among the mainstream press in the UK, the top ten UK newspapers by circulatrion numbers are:
1) The Sun
2) The Sun on Sunday
3) Daily Mail
4) Mail on Sunday
5) Metro
6) The Sunday Times
7) News-London Evening Standard
8) Daily Mirror
9) The Times
10) Daily Telegraph

So unless I'm mistaken, that's nine of the top ten papers being right of centre (some extremely right of centre), and one left of centre. Below those with increasingly lower circulation there is the Centre Left Observer Sunday Mirrror and Guardian. You could count the Socialist Worker, the Morning Star, The Socialist and Solidarity, but their circulations are down with local rags and harly have any influence on any of the major parties or their performances.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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If he didn't know then he's incompetent and shouldn't be in the job.
Oh, this myth again. Among the mainstream press in the UK, the top ten UK newspapers by circulatrion numbers are:
1) The Sun
2) The Sun on Sunday
3) Daily Mail
4) Mail on Sunday
5) Metro
6) The Sunday Times
7) News-London Evening Standard
8) Daily Mirror
9) The Times
10) Daily Telegraph

So unless I'm mistaken, that's nine of the top ten papers being right of centre (some extremely right of centre), and one left of centre. Below those with increasingly lower circulation there is the Centre Left Observer Sunday Mirrror and Guardian. You could count the Socialist Worker, the Morning Star, The Socialist and Solidarity, but their circulations are down with local rags and harly have any influence on any of the major parties or their performances.
Interesting that the newspaper so often decried upon this particular website occupies the third place in this list. Daily Mirror is in eighth place.
 

SteveM70

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Interesting that the newspaper so often decried upon this particular website occupies the third place in this list. Daily Mirror is in eighth place.

1.7% of adults but the Daily Mail. 0.6% buy the Mirror. Pretty small percentages so not really sure how significant the numbers are
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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1.7% of adults but the Daily Mail. 0.6% buy the Mirror. Pretty small percentages so not really sure how significant the numbers are
The Daily Mirror, despite all efforts to raise its profile over the last decade, seems to be in an unfortunate decline. I know my age tells against me these days, but did that paper once have a regular section called..."Live letters conducted by the Old Codgers" (or similar wording).
 

AM9

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1.7% of adults but the Daily Mail. 0.6% buy the Mirror. Pretty small percentages so not really sure how significant the numbers are
Te post was really to (once again) dispel this myth that the UK has a balanced press. The bias is way to the right given that the highest left of centre readership is way down in eigth position.
 

LOL The Irony

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Te post was really to (once again) dispel this myth that the UK has a balanced press. The bias is way to the right given that the highest left of centre readership is way down in eigth position.
Does it, perhaps, say more about the demographics of the paper buying public than the media?
 

AM9

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Interesting that the newspaper so often decried upon this particular website occupies the third place in this list. Daily Mirror is in eighth place.
The Mail is decries as a cynical moaning paper, negative about almost everything, - it's editors, and particularly Paul Dacre could hardly be described as anything else but quite right wing.
 

SteveM70

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Does it, perhaps, say more about the demographics of the paper buying public than the media?

That was exactly what I was thinking. For example are Mail readers typically less tech savvy and with higher disposable incomes than Mirror readers?
 

LOL The Irony

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That was exactly what I was thinking. For example are Mail readers typically less tech savvy and with higher disposable incomes than Mirror readers?
Yes. I tend to find the mainstream online only outlets left leaning (buzzfeed, for instance), which again, would say a lot about the demographics of the type of person expected to read such publications.
 

MattRat

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mods note - split from this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/when-will-it-all-go-wrong-for-the-tories-johnson.219414/


If he didn't know then he's incompetent and shouldn't be in the job.
Oh, this myth again. Among the mainstream press in the UK, the top ten UK newspapers by circulatrion numbers are:
1) The Sun
2) The Sun on Sunday
3) Daily Mail
4) Mail on Sunday
5) Metro
6) The Sunday Times
7) News-London Evening Standard
8) Daily Mirror
9) The Times
10) Daily Telegraph

So unless I'm mistaken, that's nine of the top ten papers being right of centre (some extremely right of centre), and one left of centre. Below those with increasingly lower circulation there is the Centre Left Observer Sunday Mirrror and Guardian. You could count the Socialist Worker, the Morning Star, The Socialist and Solidarity, but their circulations are down with local rags and harly have any influence on any of the major parties or their performances.
This doesn't include TV broadcasts, which I would include as part of the MSM.
Does it, perhaps, say more about the demographics of the paper buying public than the media?
Also, this. I think, on balance, there are as many left wing options as right wing options (very few if none centrist options though), and the real bias is simply that people buy into more right wing news (population itself is right wing). And if that was your claim, I'd find little to be able to disagree on. In fact, I'd go further and say I myself feel people are often very Conservative and don't want a single thing to change, even when some change is necessary. Perhaps they fear change will destroy what hey already have, even if they have very little, but that's speculation on my part, and perhaps someone closer to that view point could chime in.
 

Smokey Joe

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There's no such thing as left and right wing.
If I support Capital Punishment and Re-nationalisation, or am against de-criminalising narcotics but want minimum wage increased... would I be left or right wing?
The "wing" terms are used by people and organisations to imply that the views of others are extreme and dismiss the politics of others without explaining why.

If some MPs proposed increasing / reducing benefit allowances, other MPs could call it left wing / right wing nonsense without looking at the effect.
Terms far-right, and far-left are used to imply a person is beyond all reason, and has potentially dangerous beliefs, a hard tag to shake off.

The news outlets are all roughly similar, except some ignore when their favourite political party does wrong, and try to justify it, while attacking the opposing party on anything.
Labour and Conservative are no longer any different in most regards.
 

MattRat

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There's no such thing as left and right wing.
If I support Capital Punishment and Re-nationalisation, or am against de-criminalising narcotics but want minimum wage increased... would I be left or right wing?
The "wing" terms are used by people and organisations to imply that the views of others are extreme and dismiss the politics of others without explaining why.

If some MPs proposed increasing / reducing benefit allowances, other MPs could call it left wing / right wing nonsense without looking at the effect.
Terms far-right, and far-left are used to imply a person is beyond all reason, and has potentially dangerous beliefs, a hard tag to shake off.

The news outlets are all roughly similar, except some ignore when their favourite political party does wrong, and try to justify it, while attacking the opposing party on anything.
Labour and Conservative are no longer any different in most regards.
Well said, but I find it's easier to discuss politics with others this way when they have a binary view. Of course it's more nuanced, to an extent (I will always think people that support authoritarian rule are 'weird', to put it politely), but not everyone sees that, whether we'd like them to or not.

Even so, perhaps it would be better to describe it as Liberal and Conservative view points.
 

yorkie

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There's no such thing as left and right wing.
If I support Capital Punishment and Re-nationalisation, or am against de-criminalising narcotics but want minimum wage increased... would I be left or right wing?
The "wing" terms are used by people and organisations to imply that the views of others are extreme and dismiss the politics of others without explaining why.....
Good point. Broadly there is left vs right in terms of social policies, then separately to that there are economic policies, and then there are personal freedoms (libertarian vs authoritarian).

I would be considered to be "left" due to being a keen supporter of public transport, public services, and wanting equality for all regardless of gender, religious beliefs, etc. However I despise the "far" left who are actually against high speed rail, and sometimes promote certain groups to the detriment of others or try to impose "political correctness" on a scale that causes outrage.

I also despise the (predominantly left wing) authoritarians who have been the most vocal in trying to prevent me living my life over the past two years, but I won't go into that in this thread! I believe in freedoms to a greater extent than some on the "left" but really such freedoms are not a left vs right thing but a libertarian vis authoritarian axis. Absolute libertarianism is anarchy which I despise, while strict authoritarianism is equally despicable for opposite reasons. This time two years ago I would have said we had broadly speaking got approximately the right balance in this country.

I am not interested in the tribalism that some on the (far) "left" are into, where it seems almost every view they have is formed by looking at what the Government are doing and then form the opposite opinion; I've found that mindset particularly disturbing over the past two years, but again this thread isn't the place to go into that.

I did consider the Guardian to be a fairly reasonable paper until two years ago but I've now grown to despise it. I remember my first ever actual job being told a password for a particular system was "Grauniad" and I asked why; I'd not heard of that term before. Now I see how many errors they make, and how ridiculous some of the extreme left contributors are, I realise how apt it is.
 

Bevan Price

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Most of the "paid for" newspaper circulations seem to be in a slow, long-term and possibly terminal decline.
See some of the graphs on this web page:

To describe some of them as "news" papers is a bit of a misnomer. Some of their contents seem more like "gossip" about so-called celebrities, for some of whom, their only claim to fame is the size of their (sometimes artificially enhanced) "assets".
 

MattRat

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To describe some of them as "news" papers is a bit of a misnomer. Some of their contents seem more like "gossip" about so-called celebrities, for some of whom, their only claim to fame is the size of their (sometimes artificially enhanced) "assets".
Doesn't that just apply to The Sc- I mean, The Sun?
 

Smokey Joe

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Doesn't that just apply to The Sc- I mean, The Sun?
The Mirror, Daily Star, Daily Express, Daily Mail, and others have often have news reports that a celebrity woman has worn a bikini and printed that as news etc.
You may not see nipples (which have been made taboo by society), but the papers in general still try to sexualise women in effort to sell papers.
That sounds like third way politics, so centrist.
But, are any of those viewpoints I might hypothetically have, left or right wing by nature?
Nationalised rail is common in communist, authoritarian, liberal, fascist, and other regimes.
When drugs are banned or permitted, it's usually either on public health advice or to reduce organised crime.
And Minimum Wage can have negative effects if too high or too low.

People just like putting tags on people, when we all use logic to come to an opinion and add things up differently. Calling me a centrist, left wing, or right wing reveals nothing about mine or anyone else's views or opinion, all it does is make me seem alien to those in the other groups, of whom I may well share their sentiments.
 

MattRat

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The Mirror, Daily Star, Daily Express, Daily Mail, and others have often have news reports that a celebrity woman has worn a bikini and printed that as news etc.
You may not see nipples (which have been made taboo by society), but the papers in general still try to sexualise women in effort to sell papers.

But, are any of those viewpoints I might hypothetically have, left or right wing by nature?
Nationalised rail is common in communist, authoritarian, liberal, fascist, and other regimes.
When drugs are banned or permitted, it's usually either on public health advice or to reduce organised crime.
And Minimum Wage can have negative effects if too high or too low.

People just like putting tags on people, when we all use logic to come to an opinion and add things up differently. Calling me a centrist, left wing, or right wing reveals nothing about mine or anyone else's views or opinion, all it does is make me seem alien to those in the other groups, of whom I may well share their sentiments.
My nan gets the Daily Mail, and I look through it out of curiosity. I haven't seen such articles, but maybe I've just missed them. It certainly isn't front page news like The Sun.

As for tags, yes, it does come down to that, but people like putting tags on things, regardless of whether it works properly or not. I just find it easier to play along, and personally call myself a Centrist. Trying to fight it will get you nowhere.
 

yorkie

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Most of the "paid for" newspaper circulations seem to be in a slow, long-term and possibly terminal decline.
See some of the graphs on this web page:

To describe some of them as "news" papers is a bit of a misnomer. Some of their contents seem more like "gossip" about so-called celebrities, for some of whom, their only claim to fame is the size of their (sometimes artificially enhanced) "assets".
Great to see the Grauniad doing badly in recent times; so badly in fact that they no longer wish to admit how low they've gone :D
The August ABC figures are the first in which the Guardian and Observer are absent, having chosen to keep their circulations private....

The Guardian’s departure from the grid comes after its circulation was overtaken by the Financial Times in June for the first time since before the Covid-19 pandemic.
 

Smokey Joe

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My nan gets the Daily Mail, and I look through it out of curiosity. I haven't seen such articles, but maybe I've just missed them. It certainly isn't front page news like The Sun.

The seven above Daily Mail bikini "news stories" are all from this afternoon and evening.
Again it is assumed that these pictures are fine as they don't show a nipple.
But these images harm how men see women and how women see themselves.
 

bavvo

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Great to see the Grauniad doing badly in recent times; so badly in fact that they no longer wish to admit how low they've gone

Possibly the more relavant numbers would be the website views. Press Gazette. Physical newspapers are largely a thing of the past.

This puts the Guardian in the Top 3. Of course, it should be noted that a lot of online newspapers are behind paywals of some sort, so it's hard to judge how much that might affect views.

I would also guess that with commuting numbers down heavily for the last couple of years, a lot of impulse newsprint buys while travelling have gone, possibly forever.
 

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The best summing up of the British national press is the lyrics of Billy Bragg’s ‘It says here’, written nearly forty years ago and nothing has changed. (Sorry, I can’t do a link.)
 

MattRat

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The best summing up of the British national press is the lyrics of Billy Bragg’s ‘It says here’, written nearly forty years ago and nothing has changed. (Sorry, I can’t do a link.)
Perhaps you can give us the cliffnotes version?
 

nlogax

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Published all over the place, but

It says here that the unions will never learn
It says here that the economy is on the upturn
And it says here we should be proud
That we are free
And our free press reflects our democracy

Those braying voices on the right of the house
Are echoed down the street of shame
Where politics mix with bingo and tits
In a strictly money and numbers game

Where they offer you a feature
On stockings and suspenders
Next to a call for stiffer penalties for sex offenders

It says here that this year's prince is born
It says here do you ever wish
That you were better informed
And it says here that we can only stop the rot
With a large dose of law and order
And a touch of the short sharp shock

If this does not reflect you view you should understand
That those who own the papers also own this land
And they'd rather you believe
In coronation street capers
In the war of circulation, it sells newspapers
Could it be an infringement
Of the freedom of the press
To print pictures of women in states of undress

When you wake up to the fact
That you paper is tory
Just remember, there are two sides to every story

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/b/billybragglyrics/itsaysherelyrics.html
 

nlogax

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I didn't know who he was.

Bragg has a long and well-known history with Labour activism. Even then remove the final three lines of the song and you have something that pretty well represents things across the political spectrum of press.
 
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