Ticket irregularity report TPE

[joshuajelly]

Hello. Right, on the 24th of March I was heading back to Sheffield from Manchester piccadilly. I had an open return ticket that I bought on the 14th march. It dosent expire till April. When I got to the barriers and scanned it it beeped and wouldn't open, so I tried again, still nothing. So I went over to where the guard barrier people were and I asked one of them that my ticket isn't working. She looked at my ticket and said its because I have a disabled rail card and I need to show it to her. Do she came round, I showed her my disabled rail card that is inmate, looked at my ticket and then open the gates for me.

On the trans pennine train to Huddersfield, 2 conductors where checking tickets. She scanned mine and it beeped and she said its not valid. At first I thought it was because of my disabled rail card and that it says Sheffield and I was getting on the Huddersfield train due to rail works and bus replacements and I pointed out that it says any route permitted. Dhe scanned it again and she said ive already used to return ticket on zed day. I said yes, it dosent expire till April though. She then repeated that I've already used it and I repeated that it fosent expire till April. She then tells me that an open return ticket you can only use once even though it dosent expire till April. I was confused as on my train app the return part isn't greyed out like the other expired tickets. So I said oh right, can I buy another ticket please.

She then said she is going to have to fine me £50. I was a bit shocked, then she said that I am being filmed and that I need to give details, in front of everyone. I said when do I pay this, she said I'll get a letter. Anyway after I wrote down my details I remembered whst had happened at the barrier gates and I told her. I said the barrier woman told me that the reason why my ticket didn't work was because I had to show my disabled rail card. Then the conductor said that she was going to do a Ticket irregularity report because of what i said. I don't know what that meant at the time. She said I'd get a letter. She printed off my report and took a photo of my new ticket I bought.

Now I've checked what this report is about a seems like it's going to cost me more money and I have to take full responsibility, even though I got told tbe wrong reason why my ticket didn't open the barrier gate.

I have a disabled rail card due to my mental health and slow Cognitive processing and my doctor has suspected I have epilepsy which causes me to not recognise where I am and I wander around in a daze.

I'm not sure what to write in the response, I've never avoided paying for a train ticket at all and this has never happened before. I just feel that if I got told the correct reason why my ticket wouldn't work before I got on the train, non of this would be happening.

Sorry for it being very long. X

 

[Titfield]

Ticket barriers bleep and refuse admission for a number of reasons: for example the ticket is invalid OR the barrier has been set to reject all tickets that require a railcard so that a member of staff can check the railcard is valid. Because of this you can not be sure that you were not told the correct reason why the barrier refused you admission.

Please can you advise: did you purchase a new ticket from the member of staff OR did you pay a penalty fare?

Please can you upload the receipt you were given for the monies paid on the train and any other paperwork including tickets you were given. Please obscure any personal details or identifying details.

Have you received a letter yet? If so please upload that.

To give the correct advice forum members need to see the letter once received because that states the issue that is being investigated.

 

[Starmill]

Did you pay for a new ticket onboard the train? How much did you pay, can you see the price of the transaction with your bank, if you paid card?

 

[island]

On the trans pennine train to Huddersfield, 2 conductors where checking tickets. She scanned mine and it beeped and she said its not valid. At first I thought it was because of my disabled rail card and that it says Sheffield and I was getting on the Huddersfield train due to rail works and bus replacements and I pointed out that it says any route permitted. Dhe scanned it again and she said ive already used to return ticket on zed day. I said yes, it dosent expire till April though. She then repeated that I've already used it and I repeated that it fosent expire till April. She then tells me that an open return ticket you can only use once even though it dosent expire till April. I was confused as on my train app the return part isn't greyed out like the other expired tickets. So I said oh right, can I buy another ticket please.

Answering just yes or no, did you previously use that ticket to travel from Manchester to Sheffield between the 14th and the 23rd of March?

 

[joshuajelly]

I

 

[fandroid]

You only managed to use the return portion of tickets previously because the previous checks weren't set up to detect previous scans of those tickets. All Return tickets can only ever be used once in each direction. The only tickets that allow unlimited journeys before their expiry date are Season Tickets. Open Returns are just an option given by online ticket sellers so that you don't have to enter a date and time for the return journey. If you look at your actual ticket on the app it will probably say Anytime Return, never Open Return.

 

[ikcdab]

I am afraid that you have misunderstood. An open return ticket can only be used once. Thats a fundamental aspect of train fares. If you have used it previously then you have no defence and you will have to pay whatever penalties are asked of you.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Has the OP been issued with a Penalty Fare or a Ticket Irregularity Report? If actually the latter, would expect that the OP will be asked, in due course, to pay TPE a three figure admin fee and an undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare of £26.60.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I told the conductor that in the past I've been able to use an open return ticket more than once through the barriers and on trains when they get checked and never had a problem. I was under the impression that an open return ticket was able to be used until it expires.

Given what you said, there is also a risk that they will investigate your account, and if they find multiple purchases of one way tickets and only occasional purchase of an Anytime Return then they will also come after you for previous unpaid fares.

 

[island]

I paid for a single ticket on my train app and she took a photo of it. I did not pay a penalty fee. I told the conductor that in the past I've been able to use an open return ticket more than once through the barriers and on trains when they get checked and never had a problem. I was under the impression that an open return ticket was able to be used until it expires. The woman that checked my ticket at the barrier said it didn't work because I had to show my disabled rail card then she checked my ticket and card then let me through. Not got a letter yet.

Answering just yes or no, did you use the ticket to travel from Manchester to Sheffield between the 14th and the 23rd of March before again using it on 24th March?

just yes or no is fine.

 

[reb0118]

I'm not often on TPE these days but in my previous experience you would often get a conductor and revenue inspector working in tandem on certain occasions. The conductor would generally take the lead when dealing with vulnerable passengers.

I could be wrong, so do check carefully for any correspondence from Transpennine, but as a ticket was purchased (NB was this done without their knowledge and presented as a fait acompli OR with their knowledge & acceptance?), this was maybe enough to close the matter (NB, again, this is only an opinion based on assumption).

Why? Because often when dealing with ticketing Irregularities involving "vulnerable" passengers conductors will take a more pragmatic approach - using their training to help the passenger do the right thing in the future - especially if they feel that the passenger has made a genuine mistake as opposed to a deliberate evasion. Notwithstanding that, there is also a reputational risk to robustly pursuing vulnerable passengers.

That said, it's a waiting game. If you receive any correspondence from Transpennine then be sure to get back in touch - we can then offer more tailored advice.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am afraid that you have misunderstood. An open return ticket can only be used once.

This is really important. Now you know this, make sure that you only use each ticket once.

There may be ways to explain to the railway why you got it wrong when you didn't know the rules* but now you do know what the rules are you can't say that you didn't know any more. So you need to get it right now.

*When/if TPE get back, I am thinking that if the OP can get a letter from their doctor/support worker/etc. to explain the difficulties they face while confirming that the OP now understands the rules and will follow them in future, this may go a long way towards getting TPE to deciding that no further action is needed for an innocent mistake that won't be repeated.

 

[Haywain]

this may go a long way towards getting TPE to deciding that no further action is needed for an innocent mistake that won't be repeated.

As a one-off mistake that might happen, it is difficult to see TPE simply accepting that when this looks like it could be a pattern of repeated behaviour.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

As a one-off mistake that might happen, it is difficult to see TPE simply accepting that when this looks like it could be a pattern of repeated behaviour.

Given that the OP has a number of difficulties, I would hope for some sympathy if an authoritative voice spelt out the issues. But this can't be guaranteed which is why I say there may be ways to explain what happened.