Ticket Office closures no longer going ahead

[dk1]

Some good news at last. This stupid government and its obsession to cut back or save money. Power to the people.

 

[LowLevel]

Well, the latest email sent to staff from the GTR Customer Services Director (sent this morning) strongly suggests they are looking at other ways of implementing changes without actually closing ticket offices - for example, their mad plan to make everyone multi-functional station hosts.

So I doubt this is actually the end of the matter as far as the TOCs are concerned.

I'm certain the elements that don't require public consultation will go ahead - for example EMR are planning on moving to guard self dispatch for trains at most stations which will inevitably have an impact.

 

[OneOfThe48]

Well, the latest email sent to staff from the GTR Customer Services Director (sent this morning) strongly suggests they are looking at other ways of implementing changes without actually closing ticket offices - for example, their mad plan to make everyone multi-functional station hosts.

So I doubt this is actually the end of the matter as far as the TOCs are concerned.

What did they say?

 

[1D54]

So reduced opening times could well be a part of this mad plan to make everyone multi - functional station hosts.

 

[ainsworth74]

One has to seriously wonder whether the intention was simply to upset staff, and question what the motives might be behind that.

Nah I don't think it's a Machiavellian as that. I just think they were stupid and thought that they'd be able to get away with ramming something through which would get them a few negative headlines but wouldn't really result in that much actual opposition. I actually wonder if they were getting high off their own supply (as it were). The DfT/Treasury line appears to be "no-one travels by train anymore" so did that lead to them thinking "therefore very few people will object to our proposals and there won't be much of a stink raised". When what is actually happening is that people aren't buying as many expensive Anytime tickets or Season tickets, and the South East commuter numbers are still down but overall passenger numbers have bounced back quite strongly.

As I may have said at the time on here if the DfT had been less greedy/stupid they could have managed to close a decent number of ticket offices and reform quite a large number of others. But by going for closing every ticket office at the same time they were always going to whip up significant opposition.

The group that I suspect is most aggrieved, justifiably so, will be the senior industry bods who were forced to present these plans that would not work, defend those same plans, annoy a large chunk of their own staff and customer base whilst doing so and have now been merrily thrown under the bus by the Government and blamed for the whole thing. I would be utterly furious if that were me. Admittedly they should have expected nothing different from this Government but even so.

 

[mrcheek]

Some good news at last. This stupid government and its obsession to cut back or save money. Power to the people.

ah, so youre the one with the magic money tree!

 

[twpsaesneg]

Confirmed dead in the water, although the quote from Harper is a laughable attempt to cast himself as the hero.

“The government has asked the train operators to withdraw these proposals”

I do hope that the mainstream press pick up on the fact that the TOC's were instructed by the government to put these proposals forward in the first place.

It's a bit like a fireman setting a house on fire so they can be a hero putting it out!

 

[SteveM70]

Look to see what else they try to sneak through while we're distracted by the good news...

But yes, obviously very good news

Well, today is Dominic Cummings’ big day out at the covid enquiry isn’t it?

It's a bit like a fireman setting a house on fire so they can be a hero putting it out!

And Mark Harper leading the way. Blue Adair, perhaps

 

[Ashley Hill]

Well, the latest email sent to staff from the GTR Customer Services Director (sent this morning) strongly suggests they are looking at other ways of implementing changes without actually closing ticket offices - for example, their mad plan to make everyone multi-functional station hosts.

So I doubt this is actually the end of the matter as far as the TOCs are concerned.

Up to this point my TOC was still spouting about booking offices closing and putting the clerks on the concourse with tablets etc. Will they still carry out these proposals? I wait their response with bated breath.

 

[dk1]

ah, so youre the one with the magic money tree!

It’s just a standard pay deal that’s required, nothing exotic.

 

[theageofthetra]

Watch for quiet closures by stealth, reported locally but each one unknown to the rest of the country. Like the mine closures one by one after the strike of 84/85, although environmental issues would have closed them in later decades anyway.

That's what is happening anyway. If the staff leave and aren't replaced, they don't open.

 

[Tomp94]

No doubt a ploy by the regime to show they "compromise", and that this PR stunt was planned this way from the very start!

 

[dk1]

No doubt a ploy by the regime to show they "compromise", and that this PR stunt was planned this way from the very start!

Hopefully far too late to win brownie points from voters. Shown their true colours.

 

[urbophile]

Not sure what they'll come up with instead though. "We've agreed to withdraw this, but to fund its retention we'll need to increase fares instead"?

The annoying thing from my point of view is that if these proposals had actually been sensible (e.g. not closing booking offices at major London termini) they'd probably have got through and genuinely saved some money without any compulsory redundancies. Northern's proposals seemed borderline sensible, but others like Avanti's closure of everything were just nonsensical, and no thought was given to moving booking offices between TOCs.

What I can't understand is why ticket offices are the responsibility of TOCs anyway. Since all theoretically sell tickets for the whole national network they should be run by a national body, call it Network Rail or GBR or whatever. It would be a sensible move towards an integrated system which should never have been disintegrated in the first place.

 

[Mikey C]

ah, so youre the one with the magic money tree!

And money used to keeping barely used ticket offices open in quiet stations is money that can't be used elsewhere on the rail network.

The nonsense was proposing a blanket closure programme, which quite correctly caused a major storm.

 

[physics34]

I dont think having staff on the concourse with tablets is neccessarily a bad thing, i dont see why people are so against this. I have to say that sometimes when u see a full time employee in a ticket office window with the radio on, his phone in his hand not selling a ticket for hours.. it isnt a good look. I think its just that 100% of the public are not full ready for ticket machines and online purchasing yet. That may change in 10-20years.

In the meantime the decision today is the right one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I dont think having staff on the concourse with tablets is neccessarily a bad thing, i dont see why people are so against this. I have to say that sometimes when u see a full time employee in a ticket office window with the radio on, his phone in his hand not selling a ticket for hours.. it isnt a good look. I think its just that 100% of the public are not full ready for ticket machines and online purchasing yet. That may change in 10-20years.

In the meantime the decision today is the right one.

Ibis hotels have got rid of receptions and have people standing round with iPhones doing something remarkably like being reception staff, but because they're just standing around queueing for them gets right in the way. It doesn't work at all well.

That's why to make all this work properly you need to do other things alongside it such as massive fares simplification to ease self-service purchase, which is one reason it failed.

I'd also highlight another related problem. Before automatic wide gates on gatelines, one could always rely on a member of staff being by the wide gate. Now they are stood randomly and often in a crowd hard to see. This is not an improvement.

For disabled or elderly people, simply knowing where staff can always be found is of significant value.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I dont think having staff on the concourse with tablets is neccessarily a bad thing,

The trouble is that whist you’re trying to help one passenger others are trying to get your attention and that’s not fair on staff or passengers. At least at the window they form an (hopefully) orderly queue.

 

[Ediswan]

I do hope that the mainstream press pick up on the fact that the TOC's were instructed by the government to put these proposals forward in the first place.

BBC just used words to that effect. A bit like a minister supporting a government position on the breakfast news, only to have that position change as soon as they leave the studio.

 

[physics34]

The trouble is that whist you’re trying to help one passenger others are trying to get your attention and that’s not fair on staff or passengers. At least at the window they form an (hopefully) orderly queue.

Ive seen at Heathrow for example, the queue being at the ticket machines with 'staff with tablets' buzzing around that area. Like i said in my post it wouldnt be ideal for large stations....

 

[Kite159]

And money used to keeping barely used ticket offices open in quiet stations is money that can't be used elsewhere on the rail network.

The nonsense was proposing a blanket closure programme, which quite correctly caused a major storm.

Agreed, if they went down the route at reducing ticket offices at those quieter stations with an hourly service and the vast majority of tickets sold were day returns to the nearest big town/city then it would have gone under the radar.

My only fear is what will the DfT come up with next to try and cut costs/raise revenue. Further hikes in car park charges?

 

[physics34]

And money used to keeping barely used ticket offices open in quiet stations is money that can't be used elsewhere on the rail network.

The nonsense was proposing a blanket closure programme, which quite correctly caused a major storm.

Exactly

 

[DarloRich]

This government is a pathetic joke. What a waste of everyone’s time, deliberately sabotaging industrial relations and staff morale.

because they can now go ahead with a more manageable plan of closures having "listened" to complaints about the extinction level event they suggested!

The point of the consultation is to give cover for announcing the actual plan! (cynical? ME?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

And money used to keeping barely used ticket offices open in quiet stations is money that can't be used elsewhere on the rail network.

The nonsense was proposing a blanket closure programme, which quite correctly caused a major storm.

Indeed. If the proposals were all more like Northern's (I mean, can say Whitehaven *really* justify one?) then I think it would have gone through with just a bit of murmuring. For instance if they had proposed to close all ticket offices at Category E or F stations (possibly with a few exceptions e.g. where a lot of older or disabled people use the station - Frinton or Grange-over-Sands would seem to spring to mind here) but retain them at Categories A to D, then that might have been acceptable to the country as a whole.

Indeed, until the plan was announced, which was both overkill and totally inconsistent, that's what I had expected and indeed supported.

More about categories here:

United Kingdom railway station categories - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Beamer]

GWR still have a colleague call at 2pm today on "changing the way we sell tickets." It will be interesting to see what affect today’s announcement has had. I’m away at the moment so won’t be on it.

 

[Towers]

I can’t see this doing much to resolve the wider dispute with other grades.

Presumably the DfT will now bang the “other efficiencies must be found” drum rather loudly whilst pointing out to the RMT that they’ve got exactly what they wanted, whilst the RMT will give no quarter. Meanwhile the ticket office staff will remain technically in dispute (and, presumably, on strike!).

 

[CHAPS2034]

Here's the BBC News story as of 1300 which does cover the issue of TOC bosses being angry with the DfT

Plans to close rail ticket offices in England scrapped

The government tells train firms to ditch the controversial closures, sparking anger from rail bosses.

www.bbc.co.uk

Plans to close hundreds of rail ticket offices in England have been scrapped.
Transport Secretary Mark Harper said the government had asked train operators to withdraw their proposals because they failed to meet high passenger standards.

However, a source told the BBC rail bosses were "furious", saying the original plans had been approved by the Department for Transport.
The proposals had sparked concerns from unions and disability groups.
The plans were put forward by the rail operators as a move to save money, after coming under pressure from the government to cut costs after being supported heavily during the Covid pandemic.
Train companies said that only 12% of tickets were now bought at station kiosks.
But passenger watchdogs Transport Focus and London Travelwatch objected to the proposals, saying they had received 750,000 responses from individuals and organisations in a public consultation.
These included "powerful and passionate concerns" about the potential changes, they said.
The watchdogs said they had secured "significant" changes, including getting companies to revert to existing times for when staff would available at many stations.
But serious concerns remained, including ticket machine capability, accessibility and how passenger assistance and information would be delivered in future.

In September, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said closing ticket offices was "the right thing for the British public and British taxpayers" as "only one in 10 tickets are sold currently in ticket offices".
But MPs had warned in a letter last week that the plans went "too far, too fast".
Announcing the decision to reverse the closures, Mr Harper said the government had made it "clear to the rail industry throughout the process that any resulting proposals must meet a high threshold of serving passengers".
"The proposals that have resulted from this process do not meet the high thresholds set by ministers, and so the government has asked train operators to withdraw their proposals."
Labour described the cancellation of the plans as "shambolic" and a "humiliating climbdown".
Shadow transport secretary Louise Haigh criticised the government for failing to "come clean on the impact for accessibility and job security".
A Labour government, she said, would bring about a "publicly owned and unified rail network".

'Bittersweet'​

The decision to backtrack on the plans has caused anger among train bosses, a senior rail source told the BBC.
"They have been made to sell these plans, defend them and change them to try and get them over the line. All in the face of the inevitable onslaught of criticism".
"All of these plans were approved by officials and ministers at the DfT. To say they fell short of their expectations is totally disingenuous."
The body representing rail companies, the Rail Delivery Group (RDG), said the closure plans that had been put forward were about the "changing needs of customers in the smartphone era" and the "significant financial challenge" following the pandemic.
The RDG said it would continue to look at other ways to "improve passenger experience while delivering value for the taxpayer".
Disability campaigners called the result "bittersweet".
Transport for All, a disabled-led organisation, called it "the best possible outcome", but added that while the government was "eventually swayed, it is appalling that disabled people's concerns were dismissed for so long".

​

 

[a_c_skinner]

Rail travel is all about seats. In the commons. That is all.

 

[Class172]

Perhaps it's already been linked, but here's the Transport Focus page with links to all the individual consultation responses by TOC.

 

[Lucy1501]

(I mean, can say Whitehaven *really* justify one?)

As a local most of the ticket offices on the coast are quite well used, including for travel advice and news in disruption alongside selling tickets. Purely looking at station size can be misleading.