Ticket Office destaffing round two?

[VItraveller]

Interesting article hear from the association of British commuters which explores the possibility that a number of companies are attempting to destaff stations stealthily after their last attempt went disastrously wrong in 2023.https://abcommuters.com/2025/03/07/ticket-office-cuts-round-two-uk-and-scottish-governments-revive-tory-plans/

The ABC points its finger rightfully at the department for transport And suggests that the train operating companies are abusing the minor change process to ram through changes without scrutiny.

I don’t disagree that a lot of ticket offices should be cut, and staffing hours completely reduced but in some of the GWR examples, the ticket office staff member is the only member at the station so I imagine Disabled people would have some difficulty.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I don’t disagree that a lot of ticket offices should be cut, and staffing hours completely reduced

Why? I can’t see the money saved will make fares cheaper or the lamp posts shinier. It will mean a lot of older/disabled passengers will be unhappy and a lot of fares unobtainable from TVMs like group save discount will force passengers to buy normal price tickets.
Also the BO is often the first point of call for people who have messed up their on line bookings!

 

[generalnerd]

Why? I can’t see the money saved will make fares cheaper or the lamp posts shinier. It will mean a lot of older/disabled passengers will be unhappy and a lot of fares unobtainable from TVMs like group save discount will force passengers to buy normal price tickets.

Exactly! One of my grandmothers friends always used to take the train into Driffield or cottingham to see my grandmother and her friends, however since they removed the ticket office from her station she no longer feels comfortable and can’t figure out the ticket machines.

She’s unlucky as well, as most stations along that line have managed to keep their ticket office.

 

[1000 rounders]

Ticket offices should be growing instead of declining, the savings are not for the betterment of the public, and limits their choices drastically.

Let’s see what happens under GBR

 

[Haywain]

the savings are not for the betterment of the public,

They are, because ‘the public’ are taxpayers. What you mean is the rail travelling public.

 

[saismee]

Ticket offices should be growing instead of declining, the savings are not for the betterment of the public, and limits their choices drastically.

Let’s see what happens under GBR

I don't necessarily agree, but there should be some kind of proper workaround. There should be a member of staff at any penalty fare station, as the person travelling should be able to purchase a ticket from the guard otherwise. Ticket office facilities are exactly necessary in these cases, but there should be an easy way to reach one where possible.

 

[43066]

I don’t disagree that a lot of ticket offices should be cut, and staffing hours completely reduced

So you’re in favour of destaffing the railway?

 

[JordR]

So you’re in favour of destaffing the railway?

A bit of a loaded question! But I am too if it reduces cost and doesn't reduce safety. Whether that reaches me as a reduction in fares, a reduction of taxes or the utilisation of that taxpayers' money elsewhere I don't mind either.

 

[Brent Goose]

I wonder how many tickets are sold at somewhere like Warblington where the opening hours are restricted and as there is no footbridge between the platforms one risks being marooned the wrong side of the level crossing

 

[Masbroughlad]

When I've been travelling in Germany over the last few years, DB seem to be investing in travel centres and knowledgeable agents.

We need to be encouraging train travel and making it more accessible. I'm all for AI and technology where it genuinely helps, but sometimes you just need a human and a friendly face to help you.

Investing in the railway and getting people to switch to train, should include putting more humans on the front line. IMHO.

 

[sh24]

Fix the shambles that is the National Rail app, then make all tickets available for online purchase, and make all retailers invest in the tech to manage online booking changes and then we can start thinning out booking offices. It's been notable on recent travels just how little use is made of them at smaller stations so there is a case to save the cash.

 

[HSTEd]

Investing in the railway and getting people to switch to train, should include putting more humans on the front line. IMHO.

The problem, of course, is that humans on the frontline are increasingly expensive. Especially at railway salaries.

There is a crippling shortage of labour in the economy, recruiting significant numbers of additional ticket office staff is not going to improve the taxpayers financial position.
Right now, online is conquering all before it, regardless of what happens.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I’ve said it before, but a well-executed contactless scheme will do wonders. Go to almost any suburban London station and people simply don’t buy physical tickets any more for the great majority of the journeys. Maybe one in a hundred or one in two-hundred.

 

[JonathanH]

So you’re in favour of destaffing the railway?

Shutting ticket offices isn't necessarily destaffing provided those staff are redeployed on other station duties such as revenue protection, passenger assistance and gate lines. Wasn't the original plan simply to move the ticket office staff out from behind a desk to sell tickets from the sort of machines that conductors use?

With the near universal move to e-tickets, pay-as-you-go and other smartcards, the ticket office staff sell fewer tickets than ever.

 

[1D54]

When I've been travelling in Germany over the last few years, DB seem to be investing in travel centres and knowledgeable agents.

Apart from BER where it has been shut for the last six months only saying it will remain that way until further notice.

 

[101DMU]

When I've been travelling in Germany over the last few years, DB seem to be investing in travel centres and knowledgeable agents.

We need to be encouraging train travel and making it more accessible. I'm all for AI and technology where it genuinely helps, but sometimes you just need a human and a friendly face to help you.

Investing in the railway and getting people to switch to train, should include putting more humans on the front line. IMHO.

I travel frequently in Germany and find the opposite is true. Very few "smaller" stations have any staff at all. So far as larger stations are concerned, taking Koln Hbf as a example, the well equipped Travel Centre has recently closed to be replaced by a much smaller Ticket Office.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Shutting ticket offices isn't necessarily destaffing provided those staff are redeployed on other station duties such as revenue protection, passenger assistance and gate lines.

I remember during the last time the booking offices were threatened seeing the huge queue at Reading BO and wondering if the DfT and ROG lived in the real world.

 

[AlterEgo]

Shutting ticket offices isn't necessarily destaffing provided those staff are redeployed on other station duties such as revenue protection, passenger assistance and gate lines. Wasn't the original plan simply to move the ticket office staff out from behind a desk to sell tickets from the sort of machines that conductors use?

With the near universal move to e-tickets, pay-as-you-go and other smartcards, the ticket office staff sell fewer tickets than ever.

This, basically. If the idea is to just make the staff redundant it should be opposed. If the idea is to move those staff into more mobile and customer-facing roles it will be a good thing. Ticket offices are largely an anachronism.

 

[Bungle965]

This, basically. If the idea is to just make the staff redundant it should be opposed. If the idea is to move those staff into more mobile and customer-facing roles it will be a good thing. Ticket offices are largely an anachronism.

From recollection from the first time round the opposite was proposed by Northern, you would essentially have a roving person who would turn up at a station for a couple of hours but with no facilities for a customer to purchase a ticket from them! I presume this must have been because their TIS (Fujitsu) didn’t have a mobile version, who knows.

DB had a scheme when they closed a number of their ticket offices (I have no idea whether it is still a thing) where you could sit at a booth and be connected through to an agent (video rather than telephone) and you could book your ticket there.

 

[Taplowgreen]

This, basically. If the idea is to just make the staff redundant it should be opposed. If the idea is to move those staff into more mobile and customer-facing roles it will be a good thing. Ticket offices are largely an anachronism.

Exactly. Trying to keep ticket offices open at the same scale for the 12-15% of people who use them for the purpose they exist is Canute-like.........by all means move the staff into more useful roles, it shouldn't be an exercise in making people redundant but equally it should be remembered that the railway is not there as a job creation agency, it's massively subsidised by the taxpayer and if efficiencies can save money for the taxpayer which can be better spent elsewhere, then those opportunities should be explored - and not just in ticket offices.

 

[stevieinselby]

I’ve said it before, but a well-executed contactless scheme will do wonders. Go to almost any suburban London station and people simply don’t buy physical tickets any more for the great majority of the journeys. Maybe one in a hundred or one in two-hundred.

That's fine when the overwhelming majority of passengers are making simple unrouted journeys either on season tickets or flexible single or day return fares ... but that won't be the case for a lot of people outside the vortex of London.

It only really works where every station is barriered, because (correct me if I'm wrong) it would be much more difficult for on-train staff to check people's tickets if they had just tapped in on a credit card.
If passengers are being encouraged to buy advance tickets as being the only way to make the journey at an affordable price then Tap On Tap Off is irrelevant to them – but for a significant minority of those passengers, they will still want to use a ticket office.
There are plenty of journeys where there are different fares depending on what route you travel or what Train Operating Company you travel with, and that becomes hard if not impossible to resolve with Tap On Tap Off.
Also, if people are tapping in with their phone then you don't know if they are making a contactless payment or if they have bought a ticket on an app and are scanning that. (I realise that in neither case do they need a ticket office, but they are two quite distinct scenarios)

To roll out a Tap On Tap Off system beyond London and the inner South East would require a massive simplification of fares and ticketing. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it's a big thing, and so is not going to be quick or straightforward, and is likely to create a lot of losers as well as winners so will need to be thought through very carefully.

 

[AlterEgo]

It only really works where every station is barriered, because (correct me if I'm wrong) it would be much more difficult for on-train staff to check people's tickets if they had just tapped in on a credit card.

Why would that matter? Lots of systems worldwide use contactless TOTO without barriers at each end.

 

[stevieinselby]

Why would that matter? Lots of systems worldwide use contactless TOTO without barriers at each end.

How do they check that passengers have paid?

 

[generalnerd]

How do they check that passengers have paid?

I think they can tap your card on a reader and it checks for transactions being made (at least that’s how I think it works)

 

[Watershed]

Also, if people are tapping in with their phone then you don't know if they are making a contactless payment or if they have bought a ticket on an app and are scanning that. (I realise that in neither case do they need a ticket office, but they are two quite distinct scenarios)

If the ticket is an eTicket then the method of "payment" is easy to determine - one is scanned (eTicket), the other is touched (contactless).

This is why British ticket barriers have card readers and barcode scanners in different places.

How do they check that passengers have paid?

Onboard checks. The same as if TOTO (not entirely sure what you mean by this - could you define it please?) didn't exist.

 

[Class 317]

I remember during the last time the booking offices were threatened seeing the huge queue at Reading BO and wondering if the DfT and ROG lived in the real world.

I travel through Reading regularly and it's generally no queue most of the day.

 

[Haywain]

TOTO (not entirely sure what you mean by this - could you define it please?)

Tap On, Tap Off.

 

[Taplowgreen]

I travel through Reading regularly and it's generally no queue most of the day.

Agreed.

 

[Class 317]

Paper ticket sales are declining year on year as are sales from ticket offices. What's needed is an approach similar to self service tills where staff can assist customers that need help but also be more mobile and visible around stations. At the same ticket machines need to be updated to sell all tickets available at ticket offices. Some also have software challenges like not being able to buy both tickets for a future date and from another starting station at the same time.

The apps need to be updated to sell all tickets including e tickets for season tickets etc.

Staff also need to be multirole as much as possible to help make the case for job retention.

 

[Qwerty133]

So you’re in favour of destaffing the railway?

Yes, for the most part every job on the railway should either be safety critical* or self funding (by bringing in enough revenue to cover the cost of the employee).
*Safety critical in that the role is necessary for the safety of railway operations or passengers with these safety standards being absolute and not dependent on agreements with unions. Personally I would suggest that this would mean Drivers take full control for dispatch procedures at all but the largest stations but that every train that calls at any unstaffed station had a second member of staff on board for passenger safety (or every station where DOO trains were operating were staffed from first train to last).