Ticket Vending Machine (TVM) ideas

[Wallsendmag]

There seem to be numerous threads on here about all the problems with TVM so (opening a large can of worms) what would you want to see in a TVM? Please remember that a TVM also has to be able to serve everyone not just the knowledgable people on this forum.

 

[py_megapixel]

Four buttons on the home screen:

• Buy ticket
• Collect pre-purchased ticket
• Amend existing ticket
• Smartcard functions

Collect pre-purchased ticket would be a normal ToD collection UI, with a few differences to what is currently on the market:

• If you mistype the transaction reference, the machine should not reset and make you go through the whole process again - it should simply let you edit the reference to correct the incorrect characters
• The awkward routine of inserting the card, waiting a few seconds and pulling it out again should be replaced with a tap of the card on the contactless reader
• It should be possible to print multiple journeys purchased on the same card in one go, rather than having to go through the whole process once for each

Amend existing ticket would ask you to scan the barcode on an e-ticket and would then let you do what a ticket office would - such as excesses, date alterations and refunds (subject to the £10 fee), and making reservations.

Smartcard functions would be similar to how TVMs handle smartcards now.

Buy ticket would work as follows:

• Customer presented with a screen asking them for origin (filled in as the station the TVM is at by default), departure date (filled in as today by default), ticket type (with options "single", "return", "flexi-season" and "season"; selecting "return" should prompt to be asked for a return date) and destination. To fill in the destination box, there should be a set of common stations and then a button for "other stations", which should present a keyboard allowing typing the station name. They should also be asked to enter the number of passengers travelling and what railcards they have before any fares are displayed
  
  
• Customer presented with a list of the non-advance fares from their origin to their destination, according to the information they have entered. Each fare should have a "Which trains is this valid on?" button which would open a journey planner style interface listing the valid itineraries for that ticket. However, a summary of the restrictions should be displayed in the fares list.
  
  There should also be an "Advance" option in the fares list, with a "from" price representing the cheapest available Advance. Upon selecting this, the customer would be see a journey planner interface along with an explanation that Advance tickets are only valid on fixed trains and that they must travel on the train they select from the list
  
  
• Once the customer has selected their ticket, they should be taken through to a confirmation screen which contains the complete details of what they are buying and - if they went through a journey planner - which itinerary they selected. There should be a clear indication of whether following that itinerary is mandatory or not. There would then be a "proceed to payment" button which instructs the customer to tap or insert their card.

To me this feels like a reasonable hybrid between journey planner and classic interfaces. People who know what they are doing will not have to enter any more information than they would have previously (beyond perhaps the return date), but a confused less familiar passenger will be sent to the journey planner by the "Which trains is this valid on" button.

 

[Haywain]

The awkward routine of inserting the card, waiting a few seconds and pulling it out again should be replaced with a tap of the card on the contactless reader

Some machines, at least, already do this.

It should be possible to print multiple journeys purchased on the same card in one go, rather than having to go through the whole process once for each

That's a matter for the retailer, not the ToD issuer or TVM.

Customer presented with a list of the non-advance fares from their origin to their destination, according to the information they have entered.

So you'd be happy to hide cheaper fares?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Give or take the bugs noted in the other thread, I think the "simplified Trainline" UI used by several TOC apps is a good base, as seen on an iPad Pro. The Avanti app would be my main example, but others are similar. The way the touchscreen UI works should be the same (as close as possible within patents) as an Android or iOS mobile phone, as people are largely familiar with those - it might even be worth considering using Android as the base OS instead of the more usual Windows so the familiar touch UI paradigms are definitely maintained.

Under no circumstances should the 12 hour clock be used (yes, you, Avanti).

Screen should not be too large, 12-14" portrait would seem a good idea, and minimum resolution should be full HD for ease of reading. Those very large, low resolution screens are hard to use up close, particularly for the partially sighted.

Massive, massive bugbear: it is vitally important that there should be no part of the TVM body that obscures above the screen or card machine when the user is standing about 1-2 feet from the machine as is typical to use one. This makes it impossible for a tall person (say 6' 6") with back and knee issues to use the machine, quite apart from the utterly ridiculous layout of these specific pieces of absolute junk[1] which require an average adult user to squat on the floor to use the card machine - a good many users may be physically incapable of this, so I consider that they would fail disability legislation by failing to make reasonable adjustments for those with chronic back or knee issues. I am aware of the conflicts between this and wheelchair users, but by testing extensively with both sets of users it should be possible to have a design that is workable for both (i.e. so both a standing 6' 6" person and a wheelchair user can use the machine's controls without stretching or bending), or even consider having multiple heights of machine as is common in banks of multiple cash machines. Consideration should also be given to the position of the ticket outlet bit along these lines.

There must be an "open return"/"day return" type option for those not wishing to faff about selecting a return train at that point. The need for this will go away in time if the railway moves to single-fare pricing, but for now it mostly has not.

If a ticket is sold against an itinerary (whether compulsory or not), a printout of that itinerary should be printed alongside the ticket. A bit of till roll would be fine for this. It could be made optional (as per receipts at self service checkouts) if it is felt these would just end up all over the floor.

Nice to haves:

Consider an "expert mode" which a user can select which will issue any walk up fare between the two stations entered for the date selected, but with clear markings (both on screen and on the issued ticket(s) ) that the passenger has made their own choices and takes responsibility for them, a bit like the "restrictions advised" stamp ticket offices use when a passenger asks for something they believe may not be valid.

Consider doing Rovers/Rangers, two search options, one where you type in a station and it shows all of them that would be valid there, and one where you type the name of the ticket. The journey planner should (as the NRE one does) suggest a Rover/Ranger where it is the cheapest way to do the journeys planned.

Consider allowing a passenger to scan an e-ticket and change it/reserve the return journey if not reserved at the time of purchase, including a partial journey (e.g. if you scan an e-ticket from Manchester to London at Birmingham New St, it should allow you to reserve trains from there to London, not only at the start of the whole thing).

Consider allowing seat selection.

[1] https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-temple-meads-commuters-lament-1604338 - also found at Paddington, sadly.

 

[Non Multi]

This idea would require a closed door booth to work in a busy station. A TVM that has AI, has a microphone and speaker so someone can talk to the computer, it works out what they're saying. You have 4 options on a touchscreen 'Yes', 'No', 'Repeat question', 'start again' and to display the question/offered ticket for the hearing impaired. It could also be set up to ask simple questions to determine the ticket type the customer requires.

 

[py_megapixel]

That's a matter for the retailer, not the ToD issuer or TVM.

So change the system so that it's no longer a problem. If I buy two tickets on one transaction, I shouldn't then need to faff with the machine twice to print them.
An average passenger doesn't give a damn how the backend system works, so any excuse which relies on them knowing about that is worthless.

So you'd be happy to hide cheaper fares?

I am not hiding the cheaper fares. Advance should get the same prominence as all the other ticket types. It would look something like this (note, prices made up):

OFF PEAK DAY SINGLE Valid via any permitted route Not valid between 04:29 and 09:30 Monday-Friday Which trains is this valid on?	£82.30 Buy now
ANYTIME DAY SINGLE Valid via any permitted route Which trains is this valid on?	£98.90 Buy now
ADVANCE SINGLE Valid on a specific service only	from £30.50 depending on selected service View availability and buy

 

[Bletchleyite]

This idea would require a closed door booth to work in a busy station. A TVM that has AI, has a microphone and speaker so someone can talk to the computer, it works out what they're saying. You have 4 options on a touchscreen 'Yes', 'No', 'Repeat question', 'start again' and to display the question/offered ticket for the hearing impaired. It could also be set up to ask simple questions to determine the ticket type the customer requires.

While Alexa isn't bad, I think the idea of being able to have a video call with someone in a call centre who then remote controls the TVM might for now be a better way to do that. I think we are probably 5-10 years off voice recognition tech being good enough for that experience not to be really frustrating.

 

[Adam Williams]

Hot take from me: ToD collection is needlessly convoluted and shouldn't require verifying the card at all if a 3D-Secure challenge was successfully completed at purchase time. And yes, the fact that 90% of TVMs don't support tapping the card to read the PAN if they're going to force this nonsense is even more ridiculous.

Amazon are happy for me to collect much more expensive products than train tickets from a locker with just a collection code, why does the rail industry have to be special again? :P

While we're here:

• Screens that are far too large, making it difficult to use the UI/see what's being displayed all at once/type on the keyboard
• Stupid animations that take >250ms to complete, slowing down the ticket selection/journey search process
• Touch calibration issues

 

[Non Multi]

While Alexa isn't bad, I think the idea of being able to have a video call with someone in a call centre who then remote controls the TVM might for now be a better way to do that. I think we are probably 5-10 years off voice recognition tech being good enough for that experience not to be really frustrating.

I've been impressed with Google's voice recognition tech in recent years. It can't be any worse than a laggy touchscreen TVM. Obviously SWR did have a TVM that did 2 way video calls at some stations until recently.

If an AI TVM could offer a ticket to you from just speaking out what you require, it would be just fantastic.

 

[Haywain]

So change the system so that it's no longer a problem. If I buy two tickets on one transaction, I shouldn't then need to faff with the machine twice to print them.
An average passenger doesn't give a damn how the backend system works, so any excuse which relies on them knowing about that is worthless.

The point is that it is not a change to TVMs, which is the subject of this thread.

 

[island]

Opening screen options

• 6-8 "popular tickets"
  • should vary by time of day to show off-peak options
  • include Travelcard as an option where applicable
• Buy ticket
  • Option 1: plan a journey (in the style of current LNER machines) which can where appropriate issue advance fares and seat reservations
  • Option 2: expert mode (customer enters from, to, and date and is presented with all available fare options; machine can alert if it doesn't think a ticket is valid for immediate use but should still sell it with a restrictions advised mark)
• Collect ticket
  • First ask for collection code
  • Only if the code requires a specific card to be presented should the machine then request this card, and contactless presentation should be allowed.
  • Future expansion should allow for a 2D barcode to be scanned to retrieve the ticket.
• Smartcard (Oyster card where applicable)
  • View current tickets/credit
  • Top up/add ticket
• Reservation
  • This should allow a walk-up e-ticket to be scanned or smartcard ticket to be presented
  • Should issue reservation for the journey or part thereof
  • Could prevent issuing multiple reservations against the same ticket until a suitable gap (hours/a day) has passed

Important features:

• Buy from other station/for future date
• Rovers/Rangers
• Option to print an itinerary

Sky-blue thinking:

• Print to either paper roll or credit card size ticket depending on ticket type
• Future change to print to paper roll and dispense a disposable smartcard encoded for LUL gates, in the style of the "gate passes" issued with ATB-size tickets in bygone times
• Ability to change/excess an e-ticket or smartcard ticket

 

[Haywain]

Some interesting ideas being presented but I would point out that ToD is on the way out and development of that functionality won't feature much, if at all, in future TVMs. ToD will be gone completely in 3 to 4 years.

 

[30907]

For a station with local services only (mine is Saltaire) the first screen could have say 3 large buttons for "collect prebooked ticket" "buy other ticket" "MCard" (smartcard) plus 3x3 or 3x4 buttons for the most popular stations which would each have the same choice:
(Leeds/Bradford/Keighley) one way/travel now return today anytime/travel now return today see restriction (❓).
The important point is to show all the options for immediate travel to X. Anything else would be on a later screen. The restricted fare would be greyed out when it wasn't immediately available (+/- 5 minutes!)

The "buy other ticket" leads you to screen 2 which again gives you a selection of easy options (London/York/Skipton?) to make it as easy as possible for most users to find their ticket with minimal tapping.

Everything else is on the third screen!

That wouldn't work where day AND period returns are both available - but I think you could manage with a fourth button per destination as you don't get Anytime Day Return AND Anytime Return for the same flow. (Exception: Offpeak and Super OP - the ❓ button opens up a choice based on the restriction text.)

 

[Mainline421]

As I posted on other thread the ideal TVM for me would be pretty much exactly what DB have. It's simple for those who don't know how to use it and equally importantly fast for those who do, as well as being able to offer much closer to the full range of products a ticket office can such as rovers, reservations etc. It has a journey planner if you want one, but it isn't needed if you don't.

Would probably also be helpful for many to have Plusbus more prominently displayed at the end of the process, perhaps a visible logo rather than a tiny "add +bus or admission" button.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rather than "popular tickets" I would prefer to see "popular destinations" as per the original Shere machines. It does mean an extra press, but it does avoid the screen filling up with one destination and reduces the risk of the wrong one being selected.

 

[py_megapixel]

Rather than "popular tickets" I would prefer to see "popular destinations" as per the original Shere machines. It does mean an extra press, but it does avoid the screen filling up with one destination and reduces the risk of the wrong one being selected.

Yes, I would agree with that. I was just about to write a post to a similar effect.

For some reason, the Flowbird machines have both, one after the other, which is ridiculously confusing. It feels like some kind of lame magic trick - "I bet I can guess which ticket you want. No? Well at the very least, I bet I can guess which station you want then!"

 

[bakerstreet]

I think some of the above are excellent ideas.
But whatever the next generation of TVMs look like and offer, ensure some full, far reaching and properly scored market testing takes place

- during development, invite 50 irregular rail users to a warehouse
- give them each an envelope with an assignment (buy a specific ticket as detailed in the assignment - the cheapest / the fastest/ other destination / railcard / peak / season etc.)
- set them a limit of 45 -90 seconds to make the transaction
- Ask the 50 shoppers to form a queue in front of one machine (the ones at the rear might be a bit tired, bored and frustrated - adds to reality)
- when each shopper reaches the front, they carry out their assignment
- make sure no one is available to assist them, other than perhaps equally confused members of the assignment queue
- remind them they have a time limit and if they fail they will have missed their train
- make sure some users on different days have screen glare from bright lights, some screens are wet, some screens are dirty or scratched,
- some users have disabilities, some have none, some are tall, short, of different iq levels
- after each assignment is complete, put the purchased tickets in the assignment envelope and hand it in.

After all the assignments have been carried out for that day, create a spreadsheet showing

- the unique issue (normal screen, bright sun, wet screen)
- how many assignments took too long.
- how many paid too much
- how many aborted their transaction due to time out
- how many bought the wrong ticket in one respect (eg off peak instead of super off peak) in two respects (eg off peak and single instead of return) in three respects (off peak, single, operator restricted instead of any permitted) etc etc
- how many risked a penalty fare following the transaction
- how many risked prosecution (eg multiple errors relating to passenger status, destination, accommodation etc)
- note each passenger’s disabilities/height and any other status

I’m sure some market testing takes place but if it was thorough, would we still really have the TVM issues we face?

 

[Haywain]

Yes, I would agree with that. I was just about to write a post to a similar effect.

For some reason, the Flowbird machines have both, one after the other, which is ridiculously confusing. It feels like some kind of lame magic trick - "I bet I can guess which ticket you want. No? Well at the very least, I bet I can guess which station you want then!"

You may think that's ridiculous, but it deals with what 80% of users, if not more, actually want.

 

[Llanigraham]

Can someone please explain exactly what this TVM thing is? I have tried to find an explanation but can't find anything!

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

Can someone please explain exactly what this TVM thing is?

TVM = Ticket Vending Machine, that you'd use at a station to buy your ticket.

 

[PupCuff]

If I'm making a journey, I'll have researched it in advance, so I'd like a mode where I can just type in where I want to go from (accepting 3 letter codes) and where I want to go to, along with any railcard discounts, then it brings up a list of all available fares and routes that you can scroll through. There's nothing more annoying when the ticket machine is trying to sell you what it thinks you want, not what you actually want (in fairness, there are also ticket office staff that do this but its easier to explain to a human that that isn't the ticket you asked for and to get the right one). It doesn't have to be instead of a journey planner mode, just an extra button on the home screen that let's you choose either "simple mode" with a journey planner or "expert mode" where you can choose the specific ticket you want to buy.

 

[Llanigraham]

TVM = Ticket Vending Machine, that you'd use at a station to buy your ticket.

Fine, so what is the difference between that being discussed and what we curremtly have at my little station on the Cambrian?
That is what no-one has yet explained and I've read all through this thread.

 

[becky_rtw]

I'd like to tap my debit card and have last 10 previous journeys displayed, then options to repeat.

Additionally, I'd like suggestions based on my traveling patterns. Especially as we are just outside oyster zone and sometimes paper + oyster is cheaper than paper, but sometimes not. The ability to enter my full itinerary would be exceedingly useful.

National rail web interface would be better than current (without the redirect to booking.com!)

 

[XAM2175]

Fine, so what is the difference between that being discussed and what we curremtly have at my little station on the Cambrian?
That is what no-one has yet explained and I've read all through this thread.

It's literally right there in the opening post: "there seem to be numerous threads on here about all the problems with [Ticket Vending Machines] so (opening a large can of worms) what would you want to see in a [Ticket Vending Machine]?"

 

[MotCO]

The ability to add your mobile number to receive alerts if there are problems en route, or if your booked train is cancelled, what your alternative options are.

 

[Mainline421]

If I'm making a journey, I'll have researched it in advance, so I'd like a mode where I can just type in where I want to go from (accepting 3 letter codes) and where I want to go to, along with any railcard discounts, then it brings up a list of all available fares and routes that you can scroll through. There's nothing more annoying when the ticket machine is trying to sell you what it thinks you want, not what you actually want (in fairness, there are also ticket office staff that do this but its easier to explain to a human that that isn't the ticket you asked for and to get the right one). It doesn't have to be instead of a journey planner mode, just an extra button on the home screen that let's you choose either "simple mode" with a journey planner or "expert mode" where you can choose the specific ticket you want to buy.

Accepting the 3 character codes would be useful yes! But I don't think the non-journey-planner mode should be called, expert mode or 'advanced' it gives no indication as to what it does, if I didn't know I'd assume it was for more complicated purchases, adding multiple via points or similar. Plus I know people who aren't experts when it comes to IT or fares who don't want to plan a journey ever time they buy a ticket.

'Quick tickets' or 'Express purchase' would make it clearer what it's function is.

 

[PeterC]

The ability to add your mobile number to receive alerts if there are problems en route, or if your booked train is cancelled, what your alternative options are.

Who remembers mobile numbers? What I really want is to be stuck behind somebody who has to get their phone out to copy out a12 digit number. And that assumes that the machine even takes the number in the displayed format ( country code and no lead zero on my phone)

 

[Llanigraham]

Well having now understood what this is all about and reread the thread again, all I can say is that I thought that the aim was to make the buying of tickets a simpler thing to do, but all I have read seems to massively complicate things.
The only suggestion I can see as sensible was Blethleyite's, of putting this to the test with the "ignorant"/no-railway savvy" members of the general public, and as I consider myself one of them I have a feeling my answer to any query by those designing it so far would not be very polite!
What has happened to the KISS principle?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who remembers mobile numbers? What I really want is to be stuck behind somebody who has to get their phone out to copy out a12 digit number. And that assumes that the machine even takes the number in the displayed format ( country code and no lead zero on my phone)

Most people know their own. You do have to type it in things rather often.

One thing I would like, replacing ToD, is to be able to log into my railway account (no need for more than one under GBR) and print any active e-ticket, perhaps for a nominal fee. This would solve the lost/broken/stolen phone issue.

 

[gray1404]

I want a machine that does the transaction in the shortest amount of time possible. I do not want to be stuck behind somebody in a queue were the people in front of taking forever and I miss my train.