TOC-specific walk-on fares

[yorkie]

Heathrow Exp is a TOC only fare. You can buy the supplement if no through fare is shown in NFM which does save you some money. Any permitted is via Piccadilly line as it is not valid on HEX without the supplement.

Can you provide a screenshot demonstrating this? I can't replicate that at all. Fares for travel on the Piccadilly line appear to be issued to "Heathrow Undergd" and routed 'Any permitted' but clearly the destination determines that you have to use the Piccadilly line. This fare is not available from Paddington so there's no direct "Any permitted" versus "TOC-specific" comparison to be made.

Gat Exp tickets marked "Gat Exp Only" again are higher then any permitted as any permitted are only valid on SC/FGW where appropriate .

According to thetrainline, there are no "Any permitted" fares available between Gatwick and London. Where "Any permitted" fares are available (e.g. Gatwick to Finsbury Park) they are, by definition, valid on Gatwick Express as it is a valid route.

There is was also an "SC Only " CDR available during south central days which made the any permitted slightly dearer, not sure if this was changed to southern on takeover though.

There is a Southern Only CDR but it seems pointless as it's the same price as Not Gatwick Exp!

The same applies to Stan EX, where buy the TOC only is dearer thatn the any permitted although I think you can stil get the "add-on" to normal Liverpool St Stn fares if no fare is shown.

There are no "Stansted Express only" fares that I can find. Stansted Express is not a TOC, so by definition TOC-specific fares cannot exist.

 

[dan_atki]

It would have certainly been valid! I doubt anyone bought the FCC only fares (surely?!)

Some clerks at LBG may have given out the 'FCC only' ticket believing it was the only one valid maybe?

In theory they are not allowed to collude as it is anti-competetive.

hock: yeah and as a result we get ridiculous anomalies in the system that, if TOCs did talk about their fares with each other, would not exist. Like the CDR from Luton to Ashford Int being cheaper than the one from West Hampstead because one is set by FCC and the other by SE - the system is absolutely shambolic for reasons such as this. Yet, nothing will ever be done about it unless maybe SE compares their current prices in such scenarios and changes them accordingly...

I've checked back on some recent bookings and when you check ticket types, the descriptions have now been updated
From trainsfares.co.uk :
http://www.firsttranspennine.trains...trix/display_ticket_terms.asp?ticket_type=SOR
For journeys after 7th September, your outward journey must be made on the date specified, prior to 7th September it can be made up to one calendar month after the date specified

Thanks for clarifying. I assumed you meant the return journey on a SOR as you went on to talk about the return validity on a SVR

 

[yorkie]

hock: yeah and as a result we get ridiculous anomalies in the system that, if TOCs did talk about their fares with each other, would not exist. Like the CDR from Luton to Ashford Int being cheaper than the one from West Hampstead because one is set by FCC and the other by SE - the system is absolutely shambolic for reasons such as this. Yet, nothing will ever be done about it unless maybe SE compares their current prices in such scenarios and changes them accordingly...

But we all know that if they did talk, the cheaper fare would be increased!! So allowing/encouraging them to collude isn't the answer.

Instead, there should be a watchdog with the power to force TOCs to lower fares when they set them too high (and/or prevent TOCs from introducing draconian restrictions on fares such as Savers), or even a body that sets all fares fairly. But neither will happen, as the Government does not want fares to be fair!

 

[dan_atki]

But we all know that if they did talk, the cheaper fare would be increased!! So allowing/encouraging them to collude isn't the answer.

Instead, there should be a watchdog with the power to force TOCs to lower fares when they set them too high (and/or prevent TOCs from introducing draconian restrictions on fares such as Savers), or even a body that sets all fares fairly. But neither will happen, as the Government does not want fares to be fair!

All too true - hit the nail on the head! This watchdog would also need to flatten out anomolies - even if it meant the price of ALL CDRs between LUT and WHP to AFK were exactly the same.

 

[jv3531]

Sorry, forgot that electronic fares systems will calculate journeys for airport addons automatically so will show route any permitted, and if they are valid via london would include the "+Any permitted". Tickets I have found would be issued to normally "Heathrow Airport (Any)".

Same applies to Other airport fare versions which are electronic. Manual NFMs would quote the fare to for example paddington, and then have the HEX/HEC supplement added onto them for use as appropriate but would still give the same fare as the electronic NFM.
Not sure if all any permitted fares would be valid on gat exp regardless, unless they have removed the "Gat Exp only" / "Not Gat Exp" routes. At one time I know all Gat Exp tickets had to include "Gat Exp Only" or "Gat Exp" as part of the route code to be valid otherwise passengers were charged the full fare when on board.

 

[John @ home]

Sadly, the TOCs do sometimes engage in illegal anti-competetive practices by colluding. See this article

Which article?

I'm getting:
Your search - http://www.this article.org.uk/news.php?id=393 - did not match any documents.

John

 

[paul1609]

Sorry, forgot that electronic fares systems will calculate journeys for airport addons automatically so will show route any permitted, and if they are valid via london would include the "+Any permitted". Tickets I have found would be issued to normally "Heathrow Airport (Any)".

Same applies to Other airport fare versions which are electronic. Manual NFMs would quote the fare to for example paddington, and then have the HEX/HEC supplement added onto them for use as appropriate but would still give the same fare as the electronic NFM.
Not sure if all any permitted fares would be valid on gat exp regardless, unless they have removed the "Gat Exp only" / "Not Gat Exp" routes. At one time I know all Gat Exp tickets had to include "Gat Exp Only" or "Gat Exp" as part of the route code to be valid otherwise passengers were charged the full fare when on board.

I think it was only one day travelcards that this applied to.
A pricebuster return from Littlehampton is 'not gatwick express" whilst a day return is "any permitted" I've never had any problem with any permitted tickets. I have seen Southern Guards issue exchange tickets Gatwick Express Only to any permitted for no charge. I presume this is something to do with revenue sharing.

 

[yorkie]

John - sorry, the link is http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news.php?id=393

 

[First class]

London/Crewe/Preston to Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen Inverness/Ft.William has a First Scotrail only ticket, **Caledonian Sleeper**.

Similar arrangement for FGW PAD - PNZ if I remember rightly.

 

[rail-britain]

London/Crewe/Preston to Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen Inverness/Ft.William has a First Scotrail only ticket, **Caledonian Sleeper**

Yes, you can "only" purchase that on the website, but you can also take the printout to any station and purchase it once the member of staff has actually found it!

 

[yorkie]

Yes, you can "only" purchase that on the website, but you can also take the printout to any station and purchase it once the member of staff has actually found it!

in other words you can purchase it anywhere however some staff have dificulty finding it. But if they look it really shouuldn't take them long to find. I am sure we have bought them on trains to.