Today (23/2/2021) ÖBB & Siemens unveil new Nightjet

jamesontheroad

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The first of the new Nightjet car bodies and exterior design will be presented by ÖBB and Siemens at a virtual press conference in Vienna later this morning.

Announcement: https://press.siemens.com/global/en...mobility-present-exterior-design-new-nightjet
Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB) is investing in the new generation of Nightjet trains, which will offer passengers an even more comfortable nightime travel experience.
They are being developed and built at the Siemens Mobility plant in Vienna. The first Nightjet car body and exterior design will be presented at a virtual press conference on February 23rd at 10 am.

Link to press (starts approx. 10:00CET / 09:00GMT): https://live.virtual-events.at/siemens/index.htm
 
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JonasB

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A night train capable of 230 km/h sounds nice, I wonder of they will use that speed any time soon?
 

Austriantrain

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A night train capable of 230 km/h sounds nice, I wonder of they will use that speed any time soon?

Quite possible within Austria, wenn the Koralmbahn opens (for NJ to Rome) or on the Westbahn. I am sure Germany would allow it as well (AFAIK RJ are allowed 230 there, but if at all it can only be used on the weekly service to Frankfurt (on the Stuttgart - Mannheim HSL). Other countries - probably not so easy, they either don’t allow loco-hauled on HSL or are not used to them running >200.
 

JonasB

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Other countries - probably not so easy, they either don’t allow loco-hauled on HSL or are not used to them running >200.

Do you know how much work is needed for it to be able to use the high speed lines? The Nightjets to Rome could benefit from a bit earlier arrival in Rome, especially if that doesn't mean earlier arrival in Florence.
 
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Austriantrain

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Do you know how much work it would be able to use the high speed lines? The Nightjets to Rome could benefit from a bit earlier arrival in Rome, especially if that doesn't mean earlier arrival in Florence.

I am not an expert, but from what I gather from Austrian forums, the ÖBB 1216, which will surely power those NJ, is not allowed more than 160 in Italy. It might be possible to change this, but Italy is notoriously difficult when it comes to approval of foreign rolling stock (it took years to approve the RJ sets themselves and then their push-pull operation). So I don’t think anybody could say yet.
 

JonasB

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Thank you! Do you know anything about Belgium? The Nightjet has a pretty late arrival in Brussels for a night train so it would be nice if they could use the HSL in Belgium. Do you have a link to the Austrian forum(s) by the way? I'd love to be able to read what they say about the Nightjets there.
 

Austriantrain

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Thank you! Do you know anything about Belgium? The Nightjet has a pretty late arrival in Brussels for a night train so it would be nice if they could use the HSL in Belgium. Do you have a link to the Austrian forum(s) by the way? I'd love to be able to read what they say about the Nightjets there.

I honestly have no idea if 1216 are even approved in Belgium and at what speed. I do think that Belgian IC trains on the HSL are limited to 200, but I might be wrong.

The current discussion in the main Austrian Rail forum (German only, of course) is here:


I hope you can access it... I am not sure if you can read it without registering, though. You can PM me if you need help with the forum.
 

popeter45

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the fact they will have a control car was interesting
will these be the first sleeper service to use one?
any idea on how they will do thru cars/ splitting services with these?
 

Austriantrain

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the fact they will have a control car was interesting
will these be the first sleeper service to use one?
any idea on how they will do thru cars/ splitting services with these?

I don’t think any plans are published or have transpired yet. I would suppose they will - just as with RJ - mostly try and use portion working, with two sets coupled and then splitting and/or joining somewhere; this mostly is the current NJ operating system anyway.

However, normal coaches have regularly been added to RJ sets, so it is definitely feasible. No 230 running then, though.

Vielen Dank! Ich spreche auch ein bißchen Deutsch, so die Sprache ist kein Hindernis.

Viel Vergnügen!
 

43096

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They use the SNCB Class 18s (which are the newer Vectrons) in Belgium, changing locos at Aachen.
18s are not Vectrons. They use the cab design - as the "Taurus" cab didn't meet the TSI - but internally have more in common with ES64F4 (DE 189) and ES64U4 (AT 1216).
 

30907

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I don’t think any plans are published or have transpired yet. I would suppose they will - just as with RJ - mostly try and use portion working, with two sets coupled and then splitting and/or joining somewhere; this mostly is the current NJ operating system anyway.

However, normal coaches have regularly been added to RJ sets, so it is definitely feasible. No 230 running then, though.
A double NJ set would be 14 cars+ 2 locos which is maximum length for a passenger train AFAIK.
The interesting one will be Wien/München-Venezia which combines with Wien-Zürich and München-Budapest respectively as far as Salzburg and with München-Zagreb through to Villach - so would be overlength from Salzburg.
The Zagreb and Budapest are not part of the NJ empire at all, and I suspect the Zagreb is unprofitable and might just be chopped.
 

StephenHunter

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A double NJ set would be 14 cars+ 2 locos which is maximum length for a passenger train AFAIK.
The interesting one will be Wien/München-Venezia which combines with Wien-Zürich and München-Budapest respectively as far as Salzburg and with München-Zagreb through to Villach - so would be overlength from Salzburg.
The Zagreb and Budapest are not part of the NJ empire at all, and I suspect the Zagreb is unprofitable and might just be chopped.

München-Venezia is currently no more than 8 coaches. There's no Zagreb portion on that one now.

The München-Zagreb service is currently not due to return until July, where it is being joined by a Rijeka portion. Nightjet have said that they are keeping the Comfortline stock as well - it is already cleared for a lot of countries.
 

Austriantrain

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Nightjet have said that they are keeping the Comfortline stock as well - it is already cleared for a lot of countries.

They will have to keep them. The first series of 13 new NJ sets will mainly be for Italy services.

Another 20 sets are supposed to be ordered, but considering all NJ expansion plans, they will probably not be enough either.
 

jamesontheroad

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The Zagreb and Budapest are not part of the NJ empire at all, and I suspect the Zagreb is unprofitable and might just be chopped.

On a tangent, but Zagreb-Munich was one of the most disappointing night train experiences I have ever had. Travelled in late summer 2019. Nice modern HŽ sleeping carriage in the short three-carriage formation, but there was very rough track through to Ljubljana. There were three separate disturbances due to border controls 1) leaving Croatia 2) entering Slovenia (same station, but it took long enough for me to doze off between the inspections) and then 3) entering Austria in the early hours. All involved aggressive police and/or border agents banging on doors, shining torches in our faces, etc etc etc.
 

Aictos

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Excellent news, looking forward to sampling them once they enter service.

Thank you OP for the update.
 

Cheshire Scot

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A double NJ set would be 14 cars+ 2 locos which is maximum length for a passenger train AFAIK.
Apologies for my ignorance, why would a passenger train be limited to 14 coaches?
I appreciate platform lengths may come into it but there are plenty of stations around Europe which have accommodated much longer trains in the past.

In Italy a night train of only 14 coaches might have been regarded as short in the past, and the Palatino used to be load 17 between Paris and Chambery then forward as 15.
 
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Austriantrain

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Apologies for my ignorance, why would a passenger train be limited to 14 coaches?
I appreciate platform lengths may come into it but there are plenty of stations around Europe which have accommodated much longer trains in the past.

At least in Austria, regulations have changed and while 20 years ago it was perfectly acceptable for parts of a passenger train to stop outside the platform in a station (without SDO, of course), it would be a major hassle now.

I seem to remember that the Rome - Vienna night train used to be load 18 - at least sometimes- as well.

14 cars plus two locos in a RJ set (and therefore in a NJ set as well) means 410 m. Not many platforms longer than that (although Salzburg and Villach both have them, so they might be able to tuck on a couple of extra coaches if they want the shunting hassle, which I doubt).

There is a rumor that the next 20 NJ sets might not be fixed 7-car-sets though, so maybe more flexibility then.
 
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Austriantrain

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Thanks for that, I wasn't aware.

Maybe the way forward will include combinations including portions of less than 7 vehicles as you suggest, e.g. 7 + 4 + 3

Possible. Until then, I suppose the Munich - Zagreb night train will not run together with the Venice NJ over the Tauern anymore. Either it will be cancelled, or run as a separate train or maybe together with the last/first day trains (currently arriving in Villach from the North at 23:44 and leaving toward the north at 5:16 - both services are traditional loco-hauled trains).
 

30907

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Possible. Until then, I suppose the Munich - Zagreb night train will not run together with the Venice NJ over the Tauern anymore. Either it will be cancelled, or run as a separate train or maybe together with the last/first day trains (currently arriving in Villach from the North at 23:44 and leaving toward the north at 5:16 - both services are traditional loco-hauled trains).
Looking at the timetable, running 498/499 independently Salzburg-Schwarzach St Veit and combining it there with 414/415 Zurich-Zagreb would be tolerable, provided Slovenian and Croatian railways could find a compromise path (which would be better for Zurich-Zagreb anyway).

And then you could rejig the Budapest services.... there's a guy I follow on SM who probably has it all planned :)

The "short" NJ sets would be useful for Munich-Milan (which must be a very marginal working) and possibly other new routes.
 

Austriantrain

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And then you could rejig the Budapest services.... there's a guy I follow on SM who probably has it all planned :)
I am quite sure I know who you mean;)

The "short" NJ sets would be useful for Munich-Milan (which must be a very marginal working) and possibly other new routes.

I just read elsewhere- from Someone in the know - that the main reason for having driving trailers on NJ is that in many countries - Italy foremost - non-reversible trains are increasingly not allowed to use terminal stations. So without driving trailer or a second loco, you won’t be able to serve Venezia SL or Roma Termini.
 
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