Tottenham Hale - extra platform?

[rasobey]

Hi all,

Just a humble commuter here. I'm intrigued by the work going on at Tottenham Hale on the East side of the existing platforms 1 and 2. In addition there is a lot of work going on Northbound at least to Angel Road.

Is this prep-work for additional capacity into Tottenham Hale or even (doubtful) 4-track from Cheshunt?

Cheers
Richard

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi all,

Just a humble commuter here. I'm intrigued by the work going on at Tottenham Hale on the East side of the existing platforms 1 and 2. In addition there is a lot of work going on Northbound at least to Angel Road.

Is this prep-work for additional capacity into Tottenham Hale or even (doubtful) 4-track from Cheshunt?

Cheers
Richard

It is a new platform. Project is known as STAR - as in Stratford to Angel Road. I'll try and find the last time it was discussed, here you are:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122783&highlight=star

 

[rasobey]

It is a new platform. Project is known as STAR - as in Stratford to Angel Road. I'll try and find the last time it was discussed, here you are:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122783&highlight=star

Aha, thank you. It seems then this third track will be purely for the use of STAR trains. Is there a possibility that trains running between HFE/BXB/LST can use this extra track after Angel Road? Obviously to free up capacity for the trains that actually matter

(Last bit tongue in cheek!)

 

[plcd1]

Aha, thank you. It seems then this third track will be purely for the use of STAR trains. Is there a possibility that trains running between HFE/BXB/LST can use this extra track after Angel Road? Obviously to free up capacity for the trains that actually matter

(Last bit tongue in cheek!)

Unlikely at this stage. The entire scheme scope has been pared back several times to keep escalating costs within the fixed budget. The rebuilt stations at Northumberland Park and Meridian Water (replacing Angel Rd) will be designed to take 4 tracks and 4 platform faces. However only one extra platform face and track will be built as I understand things. That's based on looking at the planning documents recently.

The one aspect I am not sure about is what is proposed for T Hale. It's not clear to me whether one extra platform face or two will be built. This is rather important given the plans to rebuild T Hale ticket hall and overbridges is now under way. I also think there needs to be a passing point if the STAR service is half hourly - a two track loop arrangement at T Hale would make sense. What is surprising is that the pace of work seems to be very slow indeed. It's all supposed to be ready and open by Dec 2018. That's not very long to rebuild stations, install new tracks, wiring and make all the signalling changes.

 

[Hackneyite]

I thought the works were to facilitate 4tph between Stratford and Angel Road - plus active provision for Crossrail 2 which will surface just south of T Hale?

 

[Bald Rick]

The work is to provide for an additional 2 tph between Tottenham Hale and The new station at Meridian Water (which will replace Angel Road). One extra platform at each, plus Northumberland Park.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Crossrail 2 will provide the fourth Track if i remember correctly?

 

[AlanFry1]

When is Meridian Water opening and Angel Road closing? Meridian Water will be a stonesthrow from Northumberland Park now! I think it's not even more than a stop on the 192 bus from here!

 

[D365]

Crossrail 2 will provide the fourth Track if i remember correctly?

I was going to say the same thing.

 

[plcd1]

Crossrail 2 will provide the fourth Track if i remember correctly?

Possibly. There are two factions at play. One is the "Anglia Taskforce" who want 4 tracking as quickly as possible to increase the numbers of faster trains that can run from "Anglia" into London. This means the DfT and Trreasury forking out money sooner. The second faction, unsurprisingly, is the DfT who want to wait so that Crossrail 2 pays all the costs of 4 tracking within Greater London and possibly beyond (depending on the northern terminal). Obviously the DfT forks out much less money in this case but is likely to benefit financially from a higher franchise premium if more, faster trains can run from Essex, Herts and Cambridgeshire.

TfL and City Hall are probably in favour of 4 tracking being done earlier *provided* the end design works for Crossrail 2 and therein, I suspect, lies the rub. I doubt there is any design for the full alignment and in the short term there are legitimate questions about precisely where all these trains could run to. Stratford is capacity constrained in terms of platforms. The route through Hackney Downs to Liv St is also constrained as are the approaches to Liv St itself. CR2 is the thing that frees up a number of paths for extra longer distance / airport trains. I expect DfT will hold off doing anything until such time as CR2 is given the go ahead (if it ever is).

 

[Bald Rick]

The task force report was unequivocal: there is no case for four tracking without Crossrail 2. Therefore the only way it will happen is as part of Crossrail 2.

 

[Dr Hoo]

There is a story in tonight's Evening Standard to the effect that a "10,000-home project" at Meridian Water has 'collapsed' as Barrett London have "pulled out of a partnership with Enfield Council".

 

[AlanFry1]

There is a story in tonight's Evening Standard to the effect that a "10,000-home project" at Meridian Water has 'collapsed' as Barrett London have "pulled out of a partnership with Enfield Council".

I thought site works had already been in place for Meridian Water station?

 

[Class 170101]

There is a story in tonight's Evening Standard to the effect that a "10,000-home project" at Meridian Water has 'collapsed' as Barrett London have "pulled out of a partnership with Enfield Council".

I read this. It seems to suggest that the Mayor's office were demanding too much from the developer in terms of Section 106 money and various other 'social' projects that the housing project became un-viable. The report also seemed to be citing that there was too much affordable housing and that the 50% demands that the Mayor put in his manifesto may not now be achieved.

 

[jon0844]

There is a story in tonight's Evening Standard to the effect that a "10,000-home project" at Meridian Water has 'collapsed' as Barrett London have "pulled out of a partnership with Enfield Council".

Why doesn't that surprise me! The vision (I watched a lengthy YouTube corporate-like video) seemed rather pie in the sky even when the economy was booming.

 

[plcd1]

I thought site works had already been in place for Meridian Water station?

There are certainly people on site where the station will be built. There is also a fair amount of activity right along the section. I went from T Hale to Stratford on Saturday. Work is ongoing to clear and flatten the alignment. Hard packing is being installed to give a level base for the tracks. A bridge has been removed near Coppermill Lane - presumably to be replaced with a new asset. Another bridge further north is being refurbished and had waterproofing material being installed (I think). The electrification mast bases have been installed at Tottenham Hale and part of the main building structure and side wall to the s/b platform has been removed. Other bits of concrete pouring are also happening. After many months of sparse activity there is now a more concentrated level of work in several locations.

I don't think the rail scheme is dependent on financial contributions from the housing developers at Meridian Water - the money comes from other sources. I also suspect that once a 15 minute service starts the passenger numbers will rise regardless of the housing. Plenty of people use the half hourly service - doubling it will make it very attractive. All it will take is a couple of judicious bits of bus service rerouting to link into Meridian Water stn and the catchment area could be very large.

 

[Be3G]

Is it certain that Angel Road is going to be rebuilt to make a new Meridian Water station then, despite the apparent collapse of the huge site redevelopment? I was always under the impression that Meridian Water station was an entirely separate project from STAR (though I don't have anything to back that up) so I wonder if all we're going to get now is an extra platform at the same old spookily inaccessible Angel Road.

 

[plcd1]

Is it certain that Angel Road is going to be rebuilt to make a new Meridian Water station then, despite the apparent collapse of the huge site redevelopment? I was always under the impression that Meridian Water station was an entirely separate project from STAR (though I don't have anything to back that up) so I wonder if all we're going to get now is an extra platform at the same old spookily inaccessible Angel Road.

I don't believe there is any scope or appetite to add anything to the existing Angel Road station. There are approved plans for a brand new station at Meridian Water just south of the A406 flyover beside Glover Driver where Tesco and IKEA are. There is a site compound there for the construction works. The station is being designed to take four tracks and to have 4 platform faces (as is Northumberland Park) although one extra track and platform will be installed now. If nothing else putting Meridian Water beside Tesco and IKEA with two local bus routes connecting yards away will plug in a lot of local people and the vast hordes of IKEA shoppers who squash inside the 192 bus. Once there is an attractive frequency and connectivity to the surrounding area I believe the rail service will do extremely well. Angel Road isn't used because it has an appalling service and, as you say, is ghastly to access from the local area.

 

[47421]

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdf

I see page 28 of the attached has completion of STAR and start of 4TPH Stratford to Meridian Water as May 2019. I thought Anglia Franchise Agreement assumed Dec 2018 for the increased services?

 

[plcd1]

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdf

I see page 28 of the attached has completion of STAR and start of 4TPH Stratford to Meridian Water as May 2019. I thought Anglia Franchise Agreement assumed Dec 2018 for the increased services?

At a guess progress has been stymied by the delay to the GOBLIN electrification. You can't close the WAML at the same time as the GOBLIN so the second set of blockades to get the electrification finished has undoubtedly had a knock-on effect to STAR. I did notice at T Hale the other day that the southern approach is now flat and very wide - previously it had a massive heap of earth there. Made me wonder if there will be a passing loop feature there to allow trains to pass before returning to single track sections to the south and at T Hale itself.

 

[leytongabriel]

I read this. It seems to suggest that the Mayor's office were demanding too much from the developer in terms of Section 106 money and various other 'social' projects that the housing project became un-viable. The report also seemed to be citing that there was too much affordable housing and that the 50% demands that the Mayor put in his manifesto may not now be achieved.

Beware of putting too much faith in the 'Standard' report blaming the Mayor's Office. They do get a lot of income from housebuilders' ads. Word on the ground is that the favoured housebuilder actually pulled out as they have secured a larger and easier site elsewhere which will be more than sufficient over the the time period concerned. They were also in rather uncharted territory ( for that company) in terms of the building mix, so far easier to get a sympathetic article knocked out claiming that targets for affordable housing made the project unviable, to justify backing out.

 

[ScotGG]

Very true. The Standard get a decent percentage of their ad income from developers and estate agents. Always bear that in mind reading the paper.

 

[Class 170101]

Bearing in mind the political view of any paper would apply when reading.

 

[jhy44]

Do we have an updated expected completion date of the Tottenham Hale refurbishment?
I'm struggling to find any info or updates on the station, I remember reading somewhere that '2018' was the completion date, which has now obviously been missed, and it doesn't look like it's nearing completion any time soon.

As someone who uses this station regularly to get from the Victoria Line to Stansted Airport, it would be nice to know when I'm not at risk of getting myself and my bags soaked having to go outside to change between them like at present.

 

[leytongabriel]

Well we are waiting with baited breath for the half-hour Stratford - Meridian Water service to start in three weeks time early September. The new southbound platform has been labelled platform 2 so Tottenham Hale now sport platforms 2,3 and 4. Any information about whether 1 is something for Crossrail 2? Though there doesn't seem to be much room for it. On the interchange side it's still as messy as ever with the temporary cabins for booking offices.

 

[swt_passenger]

Well we are waiting with baited breath for the half-hour Stratford - Meridian Water service to start in three weeks time early September. The new southbound platform has been labelled platform 2 so Tottenham Hale now sport platforms 2,3 and 4. Any information about whether 1 is something for Crossrail 2? Though there doesn't seem to be much room for it. On the interchange side it's still as messy as ever with the temporary cabins for booking offices.

I think this possibly wasn’t the best thread for this question, there’s a more recent discussion of the third tracking and service pattern in a thread here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-new-station-at-meridian-water.122783/page-5
Yes, Tottenham Hale would get a Platform 1 with Crossrail 2.