Townsend Thoresen Info

[GaryBrown156]

Hi, I wonder if anyone could help me or at least point me in the right direction please?. I know this forum predominantly covers the railways but I was wondering if there is a section which covers ships?. If not are are there any any forums which are recommended?. I am currently researching the history of Townsend Thoresen (the history of the company and their vessels ect). Any help or a steer in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Kind regards
Gary

 

[2192]

They changed their name to P&O European Ferries after the Herald of Free Enterprise sank. It had the old name in enormous letters highly visible on the side in all the newspapers.

 

[Cowley]

Hi, I wonder if anyone could help me or at least point me in the right direction please?. I know this forum predominantly covers the railways but I was wondering if there is a section which covers ships?

Thanks
Kind regards
Gary

This is the correct section Gary.

 

[Ken H]

Hi, I wonder if anyone could help me or at least point me in the right direction please?. I know this forum predominantly covers the railways but I was wondering if there is a section which covers ships?. If not are are there any any forums which are recommended?. I am currently researching the history of Townsend Thoresen (the history of the company and their vessels ect). Any help or a steer in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Kind regards
Gary

Try the national library newspaper collection at Colindale.

The reports into the disaster should be in national archives at Kew.

Maybe P&O have archives you could reference.

 

[Cletus]

I have a book called The Townsend Thoresen Years by Milles Cowsill and John Hendy, who run (or ran) Ferry Publications.

Not sure if it is still available though.

There looks to be a more recent book called Townsend Thoresen - The Fleet Book.

Townsend Thoresen - The Fleet Book - Ferry Publications

This illustrated fleet book encompasses the entire Townsend Thoresen fleet from The Forde to the Pride of Dover. The publication includes a brief account of the history of this famous...

www.ferrypubs.co.uk

 

[Swanny200]

There is some useful stuff on here https://www.doverferryphotosforums.co.uk/category/pastandpresent/ferries/townsend-thoresen/ but it mainly covers the Dover ferries only

 

[Snow1964]

I went on a family holiday to France when I was young (we could only afford to go abroad every few years then) on a Thoresen ferry from Southampton (I think the terminal was in the old docks, the part that is now renamed Ocean village)

Found this link of the early ferries, the Vikings

Blast from the Past: Thoresen Car Ferries, 1964

hhvferry.com

This was before Townsend, when Thoresen took over routes British Railways didn’t want to Cherbourg and Le Harve

 

[Grumpy]

I vaguely recall that the company (in the mid 70's) was the European ferries group run by Keith Wickenden.
The Thorensen arm ran the services from Southampton with the Viking ships. I believe these also ran from Felixtowe. The other arm operated the short sea crossings from Dover using the "Free Enterprise" branded ships.
There was a Monopolies and Mergers Commission report published approx 1974 on Cross Channel shipping. You should try to track down a copy as this contained a lot of facts about the business.
All their ships could carry RORO freight vehicles which offered year round profitable business and good utilisation of the ships. By contrast Sealink at that time had only had a handful of ships suitable for RORO freight-some being passenger only or decks only capable of carrying cars. This business being largely seasonal and thus resulting in poor ship utilisation and poor profitability.

 

[LucyP]

Surely you are actually researching European Ferries Group and Townsend Car Ferries Ltd. and Thoresen Car Ferries Ltd.? Townsend Thoresen was just a marketing name.

 

[BayPaul]

Ferries are my specialist subject - feel free to pm me or ask specific questions here. Townsend Thoreson is a massive subject so it's difficult to contain in one post.

For a start, it was effectively 3 separate companies - Townsend and Thoreson obviously, at Dover and Southampton respectively, but they also bought Atlantic Steam Navigation Co, with services from Felixstowe and Cairnryan. Towards the end, they also took over P&O Normandy ferries, before being bought by P&O themselves.

One essential piece of reading is the incident investigation into Herald of Free Enterprise. As well as the specifics of the incident, it tells you a lot about the company culture.

 

[Djgr]

All in all, it wasn't a great advert for free enterprise, was it?

 

[Swanny200]

It wasn't, coupled in with the fact that they salvaged the vessel and were at one point thinking of repairing it and selling it but found no buyers especially after the Shipyard it was towed to in the Netherlands declared it a total loss. It was renamed Flushing Range for the sole purpose of towing it for scrap and at one point was moved under the cover of darkness so that none of the newspapers would see it after one paper confirmed the ship was the Herald. I wouldn't want to travel on a ship that had sunk to the bottom of the sea floor, cost a lot of lives and was there for a month before being raised.

 

[BayPaul]

All in all, it wasn't a great advert for free enterprise, was it?

No, but it is worth saying that the legislative improvements brought about by the loss of the Herald have transformed the entire global shipping industry, much like the lessons learned after rail disasters. Nationalised shipping had similar tragedies - the loss of the Princess Victoria in particular.

P&O, who had just purchased Townsend Thoreson did a remarkably good and quick job of changing culture, and rebranding to disassociate themselves from the Herald.

 

[Cloud Strife]

No, but it is worth saying that the legislative improvements brought about by the loss of the Herald have transformed the entire global shipping industry

Yes, between the Herald of Free Enterprise, the Jan Heweliusz and Estonia, things really did improve significantly.

I still find it incredible how far we've come with maritime safety since those disasters.

 

[adamello]

No, but it is worth saying that the legislative improvements brought about by the loss of the Herald have transformed the entire global shipping industry, much like the lessons learned after rail disasters. Nationalised shipping had similar tragedies - the loss of the Princess Victoria in particular.

P&O, who had just purchased Townsend Thoreson did a remarkably good and quick job of changing culture, and rebranding to disassociate themselves from the Herald.

It effectively (by recommendation) led to the formation to the MAIB (Marine equivalent of AAIB and RAIB)

I wouldn't want to travel on a ship that had sunk to the bottom of the sea floor, cost a lot of lives and was there for a month before being raised.

I'm aware (but forget the name) of a Scottish fishing vessel that capsized and lost all hands. It was recovered, repaired, and renamed - now owned by a company in the South of England. That decision doesn't fit well with most of the fishing industry

 

[Swanny200]

I would imagine there is some maritime superstition about being on a ship that has lost all hands. In the 80s when the Herald went down, you could quite easily I would imagine, recover, repair, repaint and rename and reflag it to another country where nobody would be the wiser, if they tried it with such a large vessel now, it would be on social media within minutes.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Terrible disaster; I was working for them at the time. Shortly after P&O took over and delivery of the Pride of Dover and Pride of Calais (where we had first looks), I left to pursue another career

 

[A0wen]

Terrible disaster; I was working for them at the time. Shortly after P&O took over and delivery of the Pride of Dover and Pride of Calais (where we had first looks), I left to pursue another career

To be fair P&O already owned Townsen Thoresen at the time of the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster and were in the process of re-branding to P&O European Ferries - the Zeebrugge accident merely sped up that process.

 

[nw1]

Townsend Thoresen.. yes, I remember them as we used them for our first trips to the continent.

Distinctly remember the ship "Viking Victory" making the overnight Portsmouth-Cherbourg crossing when we went to France in June 1981.

On another Townsend Thoresen matter.. does anyone know if they had some kind of issue (industrial action? cancellation?) one day late June 1981? I remember we had an issue returning to Portsmouth from Cherbourg by TT one day (perhaps around the 25th or 26th?) and ended up having to get the Sealink to Weymouth instead. I don't think my parents explained to me what had happened, just that "something was wrong" with the TT ferry.

 

[aye2beeviasea]

We took a TT ferry from Southampton to Cherbourg (I think) the day after the royal wedding in 1981. Except we managed to sail into a strike by French fishermen, who blocked Cherbourg, so we carried on to St Malo, couldn't get in there, went back to Cherbourg, couldn't get in there either, so returned to Southampton. My dad got interviewed for the TV news about it, my mum got stuck in the loo. If I remember right we sailed again the next day and got into Cherbourg successfully after a bit of a delay negotiating with the fishermen.

All the adults were getting stressed and angry but all us kids thought it was fantastic and exciting.

 

[TownsendArchiv]

Hi, I wonder if anyone could help me or at least point me in the right direction please?. I know this forum predominantly covers the railways but I was wondering if there is a section which covers ships?. If not are are there any any forums which are recommended?. I am currently researching the history of Townsend Thoresen (the history of the company and their vessels ect). Any help or a steer in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Kind regards
Gary

Hello Gary,

Are you still looking for Townsend bits as I have a massive Townsend Thoresen archive