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TPB in TOPS list

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AidanCroft

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All,

In a TOPS list there's a TPB column. It lists the three letter wagon code, such as HTA, FEA, JNA.

What does "TPB" itself stand for?

Aidan.
 
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FGW_DID

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Could it be shorthand for TyPe & Braking or similar?
 

AidanCroft

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Thanks all. You mentioned CIFVM and CIFMC may stand for cripple (with the letter CI meaning unknown) and "freight vehicle movement" and "freight movement controlled" and "wagon". In what scenarios might CIFVM, CIFMC or CIWGN be used instead of another? They often come with certain cripple codes but those same cripple codes don't always come with the above abbreviations.

Thinking more deeply, the TAG column is usually empty but often has a mixture of numbers in - 652 or 72E for example. I believe these relate to remarshalling? What information is contained in these codes?

Aidan.
 

CW2

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Every rail location is given a STANOX (station number) which is 5 digits long. They are numbered geographically from 01001 Thurso (?) to 89xxx in the Dover area.

The geographic areas were divided into Tops Responsibility Areas (TRAs).

Freight vehicle movements were assigned "Tags" to identify their destination, primarily using the first 3 digits of the destination TRA. So, for example, a wagon at (say) Mossend destined to Wolverhampton would be given a 652 tag, and would travel to Bescot with other 652 tagged traffic.

Some locations had more specific tags, especially those with trainload quantity levels, so traffic for Bescot might include 652, 65E, 65W, etc tags.

The tagging and marshalling of wagonload freight services was a time consuming business.
 

AidanCroft

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Hiya!!

So I thought it was for the destination Stannox but in this example the train was Mossend to Hams Hall. The Stannox for Hams Hall does not start with 652. Also one of the wagons had TAG 72E. How could we account for these two TAG codes?

Aidan.
 

CW2

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The West Midlands is in the 65000 - 66999 number range, so Hams Hall would fall within that range.

72E sounds likely to be Willesden intermodal traffic.
 

AidanCroft

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So why 652. Neither 652 nor 72E have anything to do with Hams Hall. All those marked 652 continued back north to Mossend. The one marked 72E was detached at Hams Hall.
 

3973EXL

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Hiya!!

So I thought it was for the destination Stannox but in this example the train was Mossend to Hams Hall. The Stannox for Hams Hall does not start with 652. Also one of the wagons had TAG 72E. How could we account for these two TAG codes?

Aidan.
It could be argued that TAGs are now obsolete.

Originally when TOPS was introduced the country was covered by a Network of Wagonload services. When a wagon is released on TOPS the destination is shown as the five digit TOPS location code. The TAG depends on the TAG table for the location it is located at. This depends on the services from this location and informs that staff the service to send it forward on. Marshalling instruction were also issued in a publication for each service for the local staff to form the train.
Local TAGs within a TRA would be 9xx.

Eg. from the old days.
wagons of coal loaded at Linby for Aldermaston Padworth Sdgs 74712 would on release have a Toton TAG 560.
At Toton the TAG would show as 730 Acton Yard.
At Acton the TAG would be 740 Reading Yard
At Reading it would be a 9xx local TAG for the trip.

When Speedlink was introduced the TAG ending in 2 was used for this traffic. So 652 was air braked for Bescot.
Other locations other than the main yards may have been given there own TAG for block services. 72E could be Willesden Euro Terminal.
Your eg is probably remains of the old TAG table. If you're going to use a TAG it should be Block TAG for Hams Hall. 66H for a guess.

Block trains were released with a block TAG. Two digits from destination followed by Y. Eg 28Y MGR empties Didcot PS - Mansfield Con siding.
It could also have been a code allocated to a particular destination. This may have to be input manually on release if not setup on the system. Any need today?

If no service could be allocated from the TAG table the default was 001.

Thanks all. You mentioned CIFVM and CIFMC may stand for cripple (with the letter CI meaning unknown) and "freight vehicle movement" and "freight movement controlled" and "wagon". In what scenarios might CIFVM, CIFMC or CIWGN be used instead of another? They often come with certain cripple codes but those same cripple codes don't always come with the above abbreviations.
Cripple instructions allocate a repair destination when a wagon is released empty on TOPS for existing Green carded cripples and wagons due PPM/VIBT.
 

AidanCroft

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Thanks! I love your username!!

I don't see the TAG column used very often. Usually it's blank. I have seen odd trains to Hams Hall where every wagon is given 652. 652 is for Bescot, which Hams Hall is not part of. How can that be explained? The one time one of the wagons was given 72E? Well, I note some places close to Mossend Euroterminal start with 072, but Mossend Euroterminal starts with 073!!!!

Is there a list of TAGs or SHOULD it just be the first three letters of the Stanox? Looking at the example above this might not be the case!

On CIFMC, CIFVM and CIWGN you're saying this is "cripple instruction"? What instructions are "FMC", "FVM" and "WGN" giving?

Aidan (whose increasing size may require a 3973HAW).
 

Adrian Barr

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Is there a list of TAGs

There are lists of tags contained in datasets within TOPS (a dataset is where TOPS is being used as a rudimentary text editor, basically a sort of "readme" file within TOPS from the days before any other sort of text editor, word processor or the ability to email documents would have been available in a TOPS office). The tags in the datasets would match up with the actual TOPS "tagging tables" that controlled the routing instructions explained in the posts above. The tags in these datasets represent a snapshot of their use around 20 years ago, although plenty of the tags listed would have been long out of use even then. The dates shown underneath each geographical group of tags show when the datasets were last updated in the early 2000s. It's possible that the tagging tables were subsequently updated without the datasets being revised, but given the rapid decline of wagonload traffic over the subsequent few years, and that tags were already basically obsolete by 2010, these can be considered to show the current meaning of a tag. This also means that tags shown in the datasets do not necessarily match up with their earlier use, so tags that existed for places like Wath Yard or Mansfield Coal Concentration depot have either been deleted from the dataset entirely or could potentially have been reused.

While the lists of tags are useful to understand the current meaning of each tag, the actual routing instructions a tag gives will not make sense today as they are still based around the "Enterprise" wagonload network that no longer exists. The only vaguely comparable wagonload network still in existence is the network of infrastructure trips (using many former Speedlink yards), but the present methods of routing wagons on this are the daily "network wires" - an email to the yards (local distribution centres) telling them what traffic needs to go on each train. The difference here is that Network Rail can centrally control everything because they are also the customer generating the traffic, whereas Speedlink had to be set up to deal with traffic originating from a variety of sources on a daily basis that was not completely predictable in advance, and the sheer volume of traffic would have made it unrealistic to manually micro-manage every wagon's routing on every service to every yard on a daily basis.

In the attached text file I've combined the list of tags with another dataset which contains a document titled "General Principles of Tagging." That document must have been written even earlier - it gives the Stanox for Fryston colliery as an example and was written by British Rail HQ at Paddington!

For those who are understandably wary of downloading any files found online (or simply not logged in) I'll start a thread in the nostalgia section and paste in sections of the tag codes in instalments, and see if the tags trigger any memories of their use "back in the day."

As already mentioned, the tagging system is obsolete and the information here is mainly of historical interest, so if anyone wants to reproduce or use the information elsewhere feel free. I've added a paragraph of explanatory text before the list of TOPS tags (which is in lowercase, unlike the rest of the text) but the rest is copied from the original TOPS datasets.

For general context, the tags represent routing instructions to locations and are not the code for the location itself. For example "Warrington trunk tag" for 60mph traffic is 352, but the actual location number (Stanox) for Warrington Arpley is 35550 - note the first two digits of the tag match the Stanox, as explained in the "General Principles of Tagging." The Stanox numbers for TOPS locations generally follow a logical geographical sequence, for example Thurso station is 01001 and Dollands Moor Yard is 89735.

Stanox codes are listed on the railwaycodes website, although it doesn't always have the data for historical locations that no longer exist, and some obsolete Stanoxes have been reused over the years: http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/crs/crs0.shtm

Theres' a handy guide to the general geographical spread of Stanox codes here: https://wiki.openraildata.com/index.php/STANOX_Areas
You can also see the same geographical progression in the list of tags, given that the first two digits follow the Stanox.
 

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