TPE Class 397 ('Nova 2') construction and updates

[Bertie the bus]

It doesn't appear to be. Maybe the railway should join the 21st Century and go paperless. Things might actually happen then.

 

[CAF397]

It must be frustrating having assets sat around doing nothing whilst something as simple as paperwork is delaying things.

It's not as if there's a dedicated team responsible for the introduction of new trains. They're already delayed, there should be no excuse for further delays to the programme. It sounds like there's drivers sat around waiting to drive them and start the commissioning and testing, but they're not allowed to due to 'paperwork' .

 

[59CosG95]

It must be frustrating having assets sat around doing nothing whilst something as simple as paperwork is delaying things.

It's not as if there's a dedicated team responsible for the introduction of new trains. They're already delayed, there should be no excuse for further delays to the programme. It sounds like there's drivers sat around waiting to drive them and start the commissioning and testing, but they're not allowed to due to 'paperwork' .

I'm not entirely convinced that 'paperwork' in this sense is literally vast swathes of paper; it's probably a large series of digital PDFs which need to be signed and countersigned.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Won't the paperwork be ORR approval to carry passengers?
That's not something that can be nodded through.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Won't the paperwork be ORR approval to carry passengers?

Quite obviously not. They won't be carrying passengers for months and certainly won't be on test runs. The 397s haven't done anything at all so far except be dragged about a bit and some electrical interference testing a month or so ago.

 

[CAF397]

They were apparently all set to have their maiden run last week but Network Rail cancelled the move due to the bad weather. This week they've been due out at some point, but clearly something is amiss.

 

[Bertie the bus]

When it was stated last week that Network Rail had put a stop to the Thursday and Friday testing, and with the cold weather, I did assume it might be to reduce the risk of OHLE damage to due ice, but as you say as they haven’t done any of the planned testing this week either there is obviously more to it.

 

[BucksBones]

Some from the delivery at Cheadle Hulme today

Sorry if this has been covered before but what’s going on with the door layout of the end carriages? At one end of the train it looks like a vestibule layout like the intermediate carriages but at the other end there’s a window between the door and the cab. Does that one open straight into the saloon?

 

[driver9000]

Sorry if this has been covered before but what’s going on with the door layout of the end carriages? At one end of the train it looks like a vestibule layout like the intermediate carriages but at the other end there’s a window between the door and the cab. Does that one open straight into the saloon?

In this photograph you are looking at the standard class driving car (coach A). The window behind the cab is where the cycle space is located and also contains a few tip up seats. The other driving car (coach E) is 1st class and has the window blanked out because that is where the kitchen is located. Both saloons are separated from the vestibule by powered doors.

 

[Nymanic]

Sorry if this has been covered before but what’s going on with the door layout of the end carriages? At one end of the train it looks like a vestibule layout like the intermediate carriages but at the other end there’s a window between the door and the cab. Does that one open straight into the saloon?

The 397 design is rather curious in that regard. I believe the window just behind that cab is an area of tip-up seats (as per the below image on the CAF website).

It might also be the area used for bike reservations - somewhat unfortunate, as those seats will always be occupied by seated or standing passengers anyway.

At the rear end of that carriage there's either no window, or it's blanked out. This could indicate a toilet - I'm not sure if it'll be an accessible one or not.

The leading car at the other end will house first class. The frontmost window apertures are there, but covered up. This'll almost certainly be the first class galley.

At the rear end of this car, I'd expect another toilet, this time definitely accessible, so as to be reachable for both first and standard passengers.

Those end windows are rather unique to the 397, and I think I like them.

Edit: beaten to it. And the images don't show in my post. You can see them at:
https://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=286

 

[SP Man]

It had nothing to do with bad weather. Some test results needed checking and confirmation on the results between differant parties before authorising testing on live railway. This should bow commence next Tuesday from Crewe.

 

[driver9000]

The 397 design is rather curious in that regard. I believe the window just behind that cab is an area of tip-up seats (as per the below image on the CAF website).

At the rear end of that carriage there's either no window, or it's blanked out. This could indicate a toilet - I'm not sure if it'll be an accessible one or not.

There is a standard toilet at the inner end of the standard class driving car. The only accessible toilet is in the 1st class driving car.

 

[BucksBones]

In this photograph you are looking at the standard class driving car (coach A). The window behind the cab is where the cycle space is located and also contains a few tip up seats. The other driving car (coach E) is 1st class and has the window blanked out because that is where the kitchen is located. Both saloons are separated from the vestibule by powered doors.

The 397 design is rather curious in that regard. I believe the window just behind that cab is an area of tip-up seats (as per the below image on the CAF website).

It might also be the area used for bike reservations - somewhat unfortunate, as those seats will always be occupied by seated or standing passengers anyway.

At the rear end of that carriage there's either no window, or it's blanked out. This could indicate a toilet - I'm not sure if it'll be an accessible one or not.

The leading car at the other end will house first class. The frontmost window apertures are there, but covered up. This'll almost certainly be the first class galley.

At the rear end of this car, I'd expect another toilet, this time definitely accessible, so as to be reachable for both first and standard passengers.

Those end windows are rather unique to the 397, and I think I like them.

Edit: beaten to it. And the images don't show in my post. You can see them at:
https://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=286

Thanks both. I like it too, very sensible layout although they will have to make sure the bicycle priority area (if that’s what it is) is very clearly marked as such.

 

[Sleeperwaking]

It must be frustrating having assets sat around doing nothing whilst something as simple as paperwork is delaying things.

The paperwork required to demonstrate that a first-in-class train is safe to go out on the live railway under its own power for the first time is anything but "simple"...

 

[CAF397]

Agreed, but much expense was accumulated testing the units in the Czech Republic, including training the drivers who will drive them . Whilst this is a first in class type, it has already operated for many hundreds (thousands?) of miles and the experience and data should be transferrable to the UK. Aren't we under a standard EU UIC system for railways now?

 

[Sleeperwaking]

Aren't we under a standard EU UIC system for railways now?

You're very funny, got any other ones?

Network Rail has a lot of infrastructure, varying in age from days old to 100s of years old. There's not a lot of it that complies to EU standards. Some assets don't even have any standard (UK, NR or otherwise) that describes the compatibility requirements for rolling stock design.

As for the tests done in the Czech Republic, the number of miles accumulated on a segregated test track doesn't factor much wrt acceptance for going on the UK mainline. It's completing the full suite of tests, getting the test results analysed and written up into a report, then getting the reports and myriad other evidences reviewed by the NoBo/DeBo who hopefully confirm that compliance has been demonstrated. A train may undergo some modifications after the start of testing which require the tests to be re-done. Overall, there's a lot of data that needs to be checked thoroughly and accepted and it's not a very fast process. It certainly isn't a very simple process.

 

[Ih8earlies]

In response to those queries about the internal layout:

 

[Meerkat]

Why is there so much non seating length? Are those grey bits at the end of the carriages electrical cabinets?

 

[VT 390]

Why are the so many table seats, would it not make more sense to have fewer tables but more seats?

 

[SP Man]

Should be out Crewe - Carlisle - Crewe on Tuesday to Friday.

 

[notlob.divad]

In response to those queries about the internal layout:

Are the only wheelchair spaces both in First class?

 

[Mathew S]

Are the only wheelchair spaces both in First class?

It would seem so. If I remember correctly, some of the GWR units are the same.

 

[VT 390]

It would seem so. If I remember correctly, some of the GWR units are the same.

I think the 5 carriage sets only have a wheelchair space in 1st class.

 

[driver9000]

Why are the so many table seats, would it not make more sense to have fewer tables but more seats?

Normally the complaints are the exact opposite! The 397 is aimed more at leisure travel and a desire for tables and seats lined up to windows was expressed so that's what they've been fitted out with.

 

[driver9000]

Are the only wheelchair spaces both in First class?

Yes they are.

 

[driver9000]

Why is there so much non seating length? Are those grey bits at the end of the carriages electrical cabinets?

Yes they are. Unfortunately the equipment has to go somewhere as it doesn't all fit below the floor or in the roof.

 

[Meerkat]

Yes they are. Unfortunately the equipment has to go somewhere as it doesn't all fit below the floor or in the roof.

Is there no way this equipment could be in flat cabinets beneath raised seats, bit like at the back of a bus? Obviously they would be very non-priority and not first taken, but they would be seats.....

 

[driver9000]

Is there no way this equipment could be in flat cabinets beneath raised seats, bit like at the back of a bus? Obviously they would be very non-priority and not first taken, but they would be seats.....

Evidently not....

 

[VT 390]

Normally the complaints are the exact opposite! The 397 is aimed more at leisure travel and a desire for tables and seats lined up to windows was expressed so that's what they've been fitted out with.

I agree that seats lined up with windows is very good and it is important to have some tables but these services southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening are very busy with commuters from Manchester so would it not have been better to perhaps have 2 standard class coaches with just/mostly tables and 2 with very few or no tables, this way you get the tables for the leisure travellers and lots of seats for commuters.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I agree that seats lined up with windows is very good and it is important to have some tables but these services southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening are very busy with commuters from Manchester so would it not have been better to perhaps have 2 standard class coaches with just/mostly tables and 2 with very few or no tables, this way you get the tables for the leisure travellers and lots of seats for commuters.

The theory is that once Northerns new units arrive and Manchester-Preston electrification is completed, most commuters will go on Northern to get to Preston (helped by restrictions at Bolton). Whether that will happen remains to be seen, but that is the reasoning behind it.