Train company NOT booking rail replacement buses

[infobleep]

But the situation described in the original post was announced in advance.

Indeed. I was just quoting a different company for comparison.

There definitely was the Sunday before between Haslemere and Havant. The last 3 buses were all canceled, and many were missing throughout the day.

I got lucky then on my trip to Alton from Guildford. Especially as they won't allow you to travel via Woking even when there is engineering work.

 

[philthetube]

There are drivers available, if companies are prepared to pay, fine me an agency who will provide transport costs and digs to jobs. Bus operators often have buses sitting in garages with no drivers.

Maybe penalties for not providing buses need to be at a level to focus minds.

 

[Joe Paxton]

In South Western Railway's case, the cancelled the buses on the day.

For last Sunday (24/9) I recall seeing an SWR RRB journey showing up as cancelled the day beforehand - I did wonder if this was a data error but it showed up as cancelled on the day too. Preferable to know ahead of time if there won't be an RRB.

 

[Llanigraham]

There are drivers available, if companies are prepared to pay, fine me an agency who will provide transport costs and digs to jobs. Bus operators often have buses sitting in garages with no drivers.

Maybe penalties for not providing buses need to be at a level to focus minds.

And yet coach operators and council transport depts are reporting that there is a shortage of drivers!
Are they wrong?

 

[Sunil_P]

This thread is about planned work between Barnham - Havant, though!

Not necessarily, I intended it to be a "catch all" thread so I entitled it "Train company", NOT "Southern". Are there any other recent examples around the network?

 

[philthetube]

And yet coach operators and council transport depts are reporting that there is a shortage of drivers!
Are they wrong?

No, they are not wrong, but there are plenty of retireds and part timers who would be happy to do a bit if they were not left out of pocket. I may be wrong but bus operators are faring better than bus companies for staff.

Coach operators don't have suitable vehicles and bus operators have no spare drivers.

that last sentence is a generalisation but I think it is fairly accurate. We have not seen any headlines about coach operators not running school services or wedding parties being left srtanded.

 

[markymark2000]

Brighton & Hove are tasked with arranging the rail replacement services in the area on Southern’s behalf - they have access to Go-Ahead’s list of approved suppliers which would include the sister operator in London and external suppliers.

GoAhead try to cover everything themselves don't they where they can using agency drivers? I know that GoAhead won't have as many approved suppliers around compared to other firms say such as First Travel Solutions who also source buses in the area. I think this is in part because GoAhead/Southerns concentration of operators will be much closer to Brighton, Kent, London because that is where their contracts are. Havant - Chichester is one of the more extremities of the network which I think is another reason why they have therefore struggled to cover.

And yet coach operators and council transport depts are reporting that there is a shortage of drivers!
Are they wrong?

I think in some cases, the shortage is exaggerated. There was always a 'shortage' but it wasn't always an unmanagable shortage. In the same way that there is a 'shortage of train drivers' if you base it off zero overtime. A lot of people want the overtime though and so all of the work is uncovered. In some other cases, they claim to have a shortage of drivers but the actual issue is they may be a bad employer or low pay and so no one will work for them. Or it could be some operators take on too much work and so they say there is a 'shortage' but actually it's just that never tried to recruit enough drivers.

Council transport depts are blaming driver shortages because they want to pay less on contracts and sadly the less you pay on contracts, the less companies can pay drivers, the less drivers want to work for them and the more everyone struggles. Ceredigion blamed a lack of drivers for their contracts not all being awarded. Mid Wales Travel, Evans Tregaron and Lloyds are rarely advertising for drivers so the reality is either they don't want the work, the offers they have put in are far too high and the council don't want to say 'we don't want to pay operators what they asked' or something else unrelated.

The shortage of drivers isn't anywhere near as bad as suggested unless there is an issue with the actual company somewhere. Almost all reputable companies have sufficient staff.

 

[Horizon22]

The main problem appears to be that council departments and TOCs can’t / won’t pay the current market rate to secure reliable contracts.

Councils are generally having budgets slashed whilst the DfT are looking to reduce railway costs…

 

[Mgameing123]

Didn't affect me directly, as I only went to Ford, Littlehampton and Brighton, but on Sunday 24th, I saw signs at Ford saying there was no Southern service beyond Barnham as far as Havant and that NO replacement buses were booked. Overheard a pair of ladies coming back from Barnham to Brighton (after trying to get to Portsmouth) in not too happy a mood, saying why should they pay for the "normal" bus?

Chiltern Railways did it once on the Princes Risborough to Aylesbury line. But what they is allow ticket acceptance on Arriva 300/X30. (Arriva owns Chiltern).

 

[AdamWW]

Chiltern Railways did it once on the Princes Risborough to Aylesbury line. But what they is allow ticket acceptance on Arriva 300/X30. (Arriva owns Chiltern).

I think during closures for the South Wales Metro, they have been offering ticket acceptance on Stagecoach as well as providing replacement buses.

 

[Snow1964]

Might be a coincidence,
or a change of policy from bus to taxi

GoAhead has issued a tender for managed taxis for customers and staff

Description​

Govia Thameslink Railway Limited (GTR) are looking to procure a single supplier for the provision of Managed Taxi services. GTR require a single Taxi service provider for their customers & employees across all 4 GTR brands of Great Northern, Southern, Thameslink & Gatwick Express and their associated regional geographies.

Renewal Options​

GTR has a unilateral right to extend the contract by up to 36 months beyond the Initial Term (Optional Extension).

Managed Taxi Services [Notice]

Govia Thameslink Railway Limited (GTR) are looking to procure a single supplier for the provision of... A Utilities Contract Notice by Govia Thameslink Railway. Value 28M.

bidstats.uk

No idea what taxi company is going to want to cover everything from Eastbourne to Southampton to Peterborough etc

 

[noddingdonkey]

they had explored the possibility of deferring the engineering work but it wasn't practical to do so.

Surely the solution is to make booking replacement transport a pre-requisite for getting the blockade signed off rather than it being an afterthought?

 

[Horizon22]

Might be a coincidence,
or a change of policy from bus to taxi

GoAhead has issued a tender for managed taxis for customers and staff

Managed Taxi Services [Notice]

Govia Thameslink Railway Limited (GTR) are looking to procure a single supplier for the provision of... A Utilities Contract Notice by Govia Thameslink Railway. Value 28M.

bidstats.uk

No idea what taxi company is going to want to cover everything from Eastbourne to Southampton to Peterborough etc

I do wonder if it would be more likely something akin to First Travel Solutions who actually source from a range of pre-agreed local taxi/bus/coach companies from a central hub and are on the hook for that as opposed to some hypothetical mega cab firm!

 

[AdamWW]

I do wonder if it would be more likely something akin to First Travel Solutions who actually source from a range of pre-agreed local taxi/bus/coach companies from a central hub and are on the hook for that as opposed to some hypothetical mega cab firm!

You'd hope so!

 

[Horizon22]

Surely the solution is to make booking replacement transport a pre-requisite for getting the blockade signed off rather than it being an afterthought?

Engineering works are planned months if not years in advance so that’s logistically not practical.

 

[Snow1964]

Surely the solution is to make booking replacement transport a pre-requisite for getting the blockade signed off rather than it being an afterthought?

Engineering works are planned months if not years in advance so that’s logistically not practical.

There is a valid point here, it was said to be too late to cancel the engineering work. But there ought to be a date where buses should be booked by, that occurs before it is too late to cancel the work

 

[Horizon22]

There is a valid point here, it was said to be too late to cancel the engineering work. But there ought to be a date where buses should be booked by, that occurs before it is too late to cancel the work

However, bluntly put why would/should Network Rail be inconvenienced and put infrastructure works potentially years back when the respective TOC has been unable to arrange replacement transport? Ultimately, it's not their concern (and we're not hear to talk about the benefits/drawbacks of a nationalised industry).

 

[AdamWW]

However, bluntly put why would/should Network Rail be inconvenienced and put infrastructure works potentially years back when the respective TOC has been unable to arrange replacement transport? Ultimately, it's not their concern (and we're not hear to talk about the benefits/drawbacks of a nationalised industry).

Shouldn't the inconvenience to passengers be considered as well?

I'm not suggesting that it would have been reasonable to postpone the work, but it seems strange to me to consider inconvenience to parts of the industry but not to the people it exists to carry.

 

[Horizon22]

Shouldn't the inconvenience to passengers be considered as well?

I'm not suggesting that it would have been reasonable to postpone the work, but it seems strange to me to consider inconvenience to parts of the industry but not to the people it exists to carry.

Yes it probably should, but Network Rail would probably brush off any concerns as "sorry, not our problem".

In extremis, the inconvenience to passengers of not doing the work should also therefore be considered for the medium/long-term (more points / track / signalling failures) but that's understandably very difficult to quantify.

 

[AdamWW]

In extremis, the inconvenience to passengers of not doing the work should also therefore be considered for the medium/long-term (more points / track / signalling failures) but that's understandably very difficult to quantify.

Yes indeed.

 

[Kite159]

Just heard an announcement played at Andover saying that there won't be any replacement buses on Sunday at a few stations including Chandler's Ford, Grateley, Swaything & Tisbury.

Taxis at Andover will be busy on Sunday considering the short notice as no doubt SWR will go "timetable of the day, now go away".

 

[noddingdonkey]

Engineering works are planned months if not years in advance so that’s logistically not practical.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Why can't the TOC make an arrangement with bus providers months if not years in advance? Granted it may be on the basis of "we'll need approx X buses, we won't know the exact details until nearer the time as we are two timetable changes away but we will confirm by date Y".

 

[Horizon22]

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Why can't the TOC make an arrangement with bus providers months if not years in advance? Granted it may be on the basis of "we'll need approx X buses, we won't know the exact details until nearer the time as we are two timetable changes away but we will confirm by date Y".

And I'm sure they will try. But there are a number of factors that mean this is still a conditional arrangement to which either side could pull out.

 

[Man of Kent]

I suspect the particular problem last Sunday is that Go-Ahead has sent drivers from all their existing operations to cover their newly-won franchised bus services in Greater Manchester, leaving no resource for extra commitments such as local rail replacement.

I'm also aware that the terms of at least one rail replacement contract managed by a major player are being tightened to such an extent, including penalty clauses for timekeeping (which is not in an operator's control - they do not set the timetable) that operators are no longer willing to be involved.

 

[jon0844]

Might be a coincidence,
or a change of policy from bus to taxi

GoAhead has issued a tender for managed taxis for customers and staff

Managed Taxi Services [Notice]

Govia Thameslink Railway Limited (GTR) are looking to procure a single supplier for the provision of... A Utilities Contract Notice by Govia Thameslink Railway. Value 28M.

bidstats.uk

No idea what taxi company is going to want to cover everything from Eastbourne to Southampton to Peterborough etc

Wouldn't this be a contract for a company that will manage the booking of taxis (and hotels where appropriate) and use multiple local firms. They already have one (CMAC), but I assume they're looking for a contract renewal and trying to drill down the cost.

 

[boiledbeans2]

On previous weekends, when the North Downs Line Guildford to Redhill section was closed for engineering work, GWR usually have 2 buses per hour, one Guildford to Gatwick non-stop (usually a coach with underfloor luggage compartments), and another Guildford to Redhill calling at all stations (usually a low-floor city bus).

This Sunday (1 Oct) however, there's only the stopping service. Anyone know why this is the case? Passengers from Guildford to Gatwick with lots of luggage won't be very happy...

 

[Titfield]

Does anyone actually wear a seat belt on a coach?

Yes I do and based purely on my observation of travelling on NExp more passengers are beginning to do so too.

 

[joncombe]

Announcement today on SWR that some stations today have no service today because of engineering works and a "national shortage of bus drivers". They are rural places too like Tisbury so I doubt there are public buses that could be used on a Sunday there either. Extremely poor service.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Does anyone actually wear a seat belt on a coach?

(Just seen this from a few days ago.)

What a strange question. I always fasten a bus or coach seat belt, as available. This is often on shuttle buses and event transfers rather than scheduled services and RRB work.

But just the other day I travelled from Barton-on-Humber to Hull on a stage carriage vehicle that had them fitted (presumably for school contract compliance) and 'buckled up' as a matter of habit. Why wouldn't you?

 

[Kite159]

Announcement today on SWR that some stations today have no service today because of engineering works and a "national shortage of bus drivers". They are rural places too like Tisbury so I doubt there are public buses that could be used on a Sunday there either. Extremely poor service.

Looks like the buses which were planned to operate between Andover & Gillingham have all been cancelled leaving just a random nonstop Gillingham - Basingstoke bus. So even Salisbury has been cut off from the London direction (requires use of the GWR replacement buses towards Southampton).

SWR, just a wonderful advertisement for the motor industry.

No doubt the hourly Activ8 service bus between Andover & Salisbury has taken up a few displaced rail passengers

(Edit - when I alighted at Andover earlier there was a large queue of unhappy passengers waiting for SWR funded taxis, with a couple members of staff trying to keep the peace. Slightly higher as I was half expecting the station to be unstaffed and passengers left to try and work out what to do)