DaveNewcastle
Established Member
That's probs the most intelligent post on this topic so far.
I couln't add anything more.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Train derailment (1Y27 18:20 GLQ - OBN)
- Thread starter yorkie
- Start date
- Status
I couln't add anything more.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Saw a report in about the derailment in the Sun, who, as usual have made it sound worse that it probably was. Dont think anyone can deny the leading coach is an a precarious postition. But they describe it burst into flames, but looking at the pictures I think its fairly safe to say, it was nothing more than a small engine fire at worst.
So that would be a no then
Oh well seemed like a good idea. If the road is cantilevered then it is going to take some imaginative thinking to strengthen it enough for the recovery operation, or go in with the gas axe
I take it there is no room/ ground too soft, for the out-riggers on a rail crane.
Anybody remember when 56062 ended up at the bottom of the embankment on top of a gas main and the whole rail side was strengthened with piles and then the embankment was removed to enable the loco to be righted, engine removed then the body-shell was recovered.
Vulcan
Member
What we need for this situation is Thunderbird 2
christopher
Member
How about Scotrail sell it on one condition that the buyer collects it :P
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
It's not theirs to sell is it?
But maybe they could put the leasing company up to it! I can just see the listing on e-Bay now...
But maybe they could put the leasing company up to it! I can just see the listing on e-Bay now...
the sniper
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Sep 2007
- Messages
- 3,498
They should just leave it on the embankment. Over time they can strip it for parts, and eventually there'd been nothing left. Problem solved.
networkrail1
Member
i know it may sound stupid but couldnt you just push it down the embankment and then pick it up from the road.
I suspect not if you want to use it again. Sending it down the embankment would almost certainly right the unit off, and quite possibly destory the road for that matter!
90019
Established Member
I suspect you'd end up with a rather wet 156, and a bit of a gap in the road.
As far as I can gather, this is the approximate location.
"Pushing" it would, as said, result in untold damge to the road below, and the carriage wpould likely go straight into the Loch- which is steep side, beyond an initial lip, and deep.
Old Timer
Established Member
I am told that the strengthening of the road will be completed tonight.
On which basis I would anticipate the recovery operations to commence tomorrow morning assuming nothing untowards happens or is discovered in the meantime.
On which basis I would anticipate the recovery operations to commence tomorrow morning assuming nothing untowards happens or is discovered in the meantime.
CarterUSM
Established Member
How is the road being strengthened ? I must say i am impressed with the haste in getting such a tricky operation underway.
More than likely it is being strengthened by some simple measures to spread the load of the crane more readily over the existing structure, rather than having the load concentrated on single points.
I do hope, however, that the whole recovery operation is being filmed. From an engineering perspective, the challenges here would be interesting to see documented.
I do hope, however, that the whole recovery operation is being filmed. From an engineering perspective, the challenges here would be interesting to see documented.
CarterUSM
Established Member
Yes, i'd be rather interested in seeing it myself. So, as to strengthening, more supports underneath the road?
I think it must be a load-spreading arrangement as Boing says. Looking at the photos I don't think the road is strictly speaking a cantilever, but seems to be a conventional flat deck supported on vertical concrete piles into the loch shore - you can just make out the tops of the piles in pictures taken from a distance close to the water.
I would guess therefore that the weak spots would be the deck panels, and that if an arrangement of beams are put in place causing the load to bear mainly onto the piles that could be sufficient to allow a road crane to get access.
I don't think it would be possible to put useful additional support underneath the deck, as they would need to go into the loch. I suspect a cofferdam and draining would be needed so that work could be done in the dry, and that would take a long time to put in place - many weeks, if not months.
It will definitely be an interesting recovery operation - I remember the recovery of a Class 86(or 85?) from the bottom of the embankment at Watford South in the seventies, which took some time to organise. The loco had derailed from the Down Fast in a collision, and at that time the area was just marshy fields with no road access - now there's a proper road network and a Tesco store it would be rather different - Old Timer or someone else may well remember more about this.
I would guess therefore that the weak spots would be the deck panels, and that if an arrangement of beams are put in place causing the load to bear mainly onto the piles that could be sufficient to allow a road crane to get access.
I don't think it would be possible to put useful additional support underneath the deck, as they would need to go into the loch. I suspect a cofferdam and draining would be needed so that work could be done in the dry, and that would take a long time to put in place - many weeks, if not months.
It will definitely be an interesting recovery operation - I remember the recovery of a Class 86(or 85?) from the bottom of the embankment at Watford South in the seventies, which took some time to organise. The loco had derailed from the Down Fast in a collision, and at that time the area was just marshy fields with no road access - now there's a proper road network and a Tesco store it would be rather different - Old Timer or someone else may well remember more about this.
Not sure if the link will work here but this should go to show just how precarious the rear carridge is...
http://www.railchat.co.uk/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=558
http://www.railchat.co.uk/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=558
I've just heard that the guard was involved in a similar incident at a similar location 13 years ago. Lucky white heather. Seriously though he has been praised for his "calm professionalism" on both occasions.
No report of any serious fire but some heavy sparking did occur as the carriages separated.
No report of any serious fire but some heavy sparking did occur as the carriages separated.
Aictos
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2009
- Messages
- 10,403
Damn! Just goes to show how difficult it will be to recover the unit but saying that didn't they have trouble with James the Engine aka 66048 at Carrbridge earlier this year when it derailed?
So nothing is impossible as far as I see.
GearJammer
Member
Mother natures way of reminding us whos boss!
Surely the rear car can just be rerailed put on a wheel skate and towed away by another unit/loco, the front car looks difficult to recover but looks from the pics that it would be easier to put it back on the tracks, again move it away on wheel skates or new bogies to somewhere further up or down the line where a crane and truck can get better or more solid access to it? Not being from that neck of the woods are there any pics available of how close the road and railway are together? From the pics ive looked at it looks like it would be an easier/shorter lift to put it back on the track then get it up and over to the road as i can't see the road?
Surely the rear car can just be rerailed put on a wheel skate and towed away by another unit/loco, the front car looks difficult to recover but looks from the pics that it would be easier to put it back on the tracks, again move it away on wheel skates or new bogies to somewhere further up or down the line where a crane and truck can get better or more solid access to it? Not being from that neck of the woods are there any pics available of how close the road and railway are together? From the pics ive looked at it looks like it would be an easier/shorter lift to put it back on the track then get it up and over to the road as i can't see the road?
No there have been several others Huddersfield in '89 had 33 injuries, another in '92 saw 40 odd people hospitalised and there several more that have involved 156s.
90019
Established Member
From the photos, I think it's on the other side of the station, above this section, where part of the road is supported above the water.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder if we'll end up with a 3 car set running whilst the coach that's fallen down is repaired.
It's unfortunate it's an inland loch, otherwise it might be possible to float a crane into position (although the distance is probably too far). I don't know if rail-mounted cranes are possible either. Even if you could get one in, it might not be a good idea to run it over possibly damaged permanent way. Short of a Sikorsky Skycrane, they might have to right off the vehicle and cut it up on scene, like that M7 that went down the Waterloo & City lift shaft.
Vulcan
Member
I still maintain that Thunderbird 2 of the International rescue would be the ideal vehicle to recover the front car. However people have already said that the road is being strenthened for a road crane to pick it up, so all this speculation of other ways it could be recovered is a bit pointless really. However, its fun to think of ways it could be done.
Failed Unit
Established Member
More specifically, this says that one of the carriages has been removed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/scotland/glasgow_and_west/10295107.stm
- Status