Train drivers favorite and least favorite routes to drive?

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are there any drivers who operate the full length of both the WCML and ECML and could compare them for driving interest/pleasure/challenges?
Avanti and LNER* drivers are limited to one side of the network or the other; TPE operates on the WCML/ECML north of Preston/York but maybe not the same drivers.
Caley Sleepers operate both routes (WCML normally, but sometimes not quite into King's Cross when diverted via the ECML) but again they may not be the same drivers.
Then there are the "go anywhere" freight TOCs which cover both routes, but not with high speed stock.

* LNER drivers do get to drive on the WCML Carstairs-Glasgow Central and (on diversion) Carlisle-Edinburgh.

 

[D6130]

Are there any drivers who operate the full length of both the WCML and ECML

Avanti Preston-based drivers and LNER Newcastle-based drivers sign the full length of the WCML and ECML (to Edinburgh) respectively, but wouldn't normally do so in the same shift (record-breaking attempts excepted).

 

[craigybagel]

Are there any drivers who operate the full length of both the WCML and ECML and could compare them for driving interest/pleasure/challenges?
Avanti and LNER* drivers are limited to one side of the network or the other; TPE operates on the WCML/ECML north of Preston/York but maybe not the same drivers.
Caley Sleepers operate both routes (WCML normally, but sometimes not quite into King's Cross when diverted via the ECML) but again they may not be the same drivers.
Then there are the "go anywhere" freight TOCs which cover both routes, but not with high speed stock.

* LNER drivers do get to drive on the WCML Carstairs-Glasgow Central and (on diversion) Carlisle-Edinburgh.

Most likely bet would be the Colas drivers who drive the New Measurement Train (the Network Rail HST), their route card is supposed to be hard to beat. Other than that, I'm struggling to think of anyone else likely to, and certainly nobody at a franchised TOC. Even the infamous Devon and Cornwall driver of Stafford SPAD fame didn't claim to sign all of the WCML and ECML, though he did sign parts of both on his vast route card.

 

[cnjb8]

Some are less . 90 , 100 , 110 . But some are 125 .

Thank you

 

[quattromatt]

Will always be the settle-Carlisle for me, a good thrash northbound on the empties and a good old slog southbound to the aire valley power stations, my last trip was a damp squib though, light engine kingmoor to midland road. I’d have done it for nothing.

 

[GN Boy]

I challenge you to find a driver who actually likes driving the Northern City Line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate.

One Moorgate in a shift was acceptable, but three of them…

 

[bramling]

One Moorgate in a shift was acceptable, but three of them…

Out of interest, what is the bugbear with driving to Moorgate? Apart from the short turnaround at Moorgate, I can’t readily see anything *too* awful about it.

 

[choochoochoo]

Out of interest, what is the bugbear with driving to Moorgate? Apart from the short turnaround at Moorgate, I can’t readily see anything *too* awful about it.

It's dirty (even though they've apparently cleaned it) - You don't want to leave your window open !! I hate dry air-conditioned air
It's intense - Frequent stops/Quick Turnaround
It's slow - 30mph max speed adds to the monotony
It's being in a dark tunnel with no scenery for at least 30 minutes. - One of the best things about being a driver is the view from the office window !!
It's the last place you want to be stuck in an emergency / without power (- Luckily this is an extremely rare situation)

I know we'll get very little sympathy from most Tube drivers, but as mainline drivers it's awful when you have to do it 3 times a day - especially twice in a single session of being 'in the chair' for 4 hours non-stop

 

[HS2isgood]

How many hours does a driver drive in a day? I suppose it must be hard to keep concentration that much

 

[Watershed]

How many hours does a driver drive in a day? I suppose it must be hard to keep concentration that much

Depends entirely on the company. For most TOCs and FOCs the maximum shift length is about 10 hours - the maximum Hidden-compliant length is 12 hours provided there's no driving in the last hour.

You've got to subtract booking on and off allowances (typically about 20-30 mins in total), breaks (typically at least 30 mins plus walking time) and nonproductive time (e.g. passing from A to B or waiting for your next booked move). And also consider that you can't have more than 6 hours safety critical work without a break.

So realistically you're unlikely to have a shift with more than 8 or 9 hours of actual driving - split into at least two parts if the shift is more than 6 hours.

 

[choochoochoo]

Depends entirely on the company. For most TOCs and FOCs the maximum shift length is about 10 hours - the maximum Hidden-compliant length is 12 hours provided there's no driving in the last hour.

You've got to subtract booking on and off allowances (typically about 20-30 mins in total), breaks (typically at least 30 mins plus walking time) and nonproductive time (e.g. passing from A to B or waiting for your next booked move). And also consider that you can't have more than 6 hours safety critical work without a break.

So realistically you're unlikely to have a shift with more than 8 or 9 hours of actual driving - split into at least two parts if the shift is more than 6 hours.

Also depends on the traction you drive. At my TOC, if there is no onboard toilet you can only drive a maximum of 4 hours without a break (including turnaround times). It's 5 hours if there's a toilet onboard.

 

[Watershed]

Also depends on the traction you drive. At my TOC, if there is no onboard toilet you can only drive a maximum of 4 hours without a break (including turnaround times). It's 5 hours if there's a toilet onboard.

Yep, for others there's a maximum duration of say 4 or 5 hours that you can be in charge of a train, so for that 'timer' to be reset you need to have time to immobilise and remobilise the train at the turnaround, or be relieved by another driver.

 

[800 Driver]

Depends on the driver, each to their own. Most Paddington drivers hate doing Greenfords, but I actually quite like them, especially if you only get 2 or 3 trips (instead of the maximum 5). 12 mins each way, max speed of 40 mph, must of it slower. Loads of urban wildlife, foxes, parakeets etc. You get to see a river (Brent), a viaduct over it, a tunnel, a view of Wembley stadium, an actual signal box and some semaphore to look at (but it's not on the branch bit so you don't need to worry about it). A perfect little half day out.

Whereas 125mph in an IET is largely boring, with only the odd neutral section or TSR to keep you occupied.

 

[Pigeon]

Also depends on the traction you drive. At my TOC, if there is no onboard toilet you can only drive a maximum of 4 hours without a break (including turnaround times). It's 5 hours if there's a toilet onboard.

What do you do if you're doing say Carlisle to Edinburgh non-stop and find yourself needing a leak half way? Bottle? Cork? I know I couldn't go at Carlisle and then guarantee not to need to go again over that distance.

 

[craigybagel]

What do you do if you're doing say Carlisle to Edinburgh non-stop and find yourself needing a leak half way? Bottle? Cork? I know I couldn't go at Carlisle and then guarantee not to need to go again over that distance.

If you find you can't trust yourself to cope with less than 90 minutes between toilet breaks, then train driving is probably the wrong job for you.

 

[Watershed]

What do you do if you're doing say Carlisle to Edinburgh non-stop and find yourself needing a leak half way? Bottle? Cork? I know I couldn't go at Carlisle and then guarantee not to need to go again over that distance.

If you do misjudge it, ultimately you'd stop the train and walk back to the toilets. Better to delay the train than to be distracted!

 

[baz962]

If you find you can't trust yourself to cope with less than 90 minutes between toilet breaks, then train driving is probably the wrong job for you.

Or don't do intercity work. Bit of suburban stopping work.

 

[Class360/1]

If you find you can't trust yourself to cope with less than 90 minutes between toilet breaks, then train driving is probably the wrong job for you.

Or don’t drive long distance, intercity trains. Plenty of suburban, short regionals and metro work that take less than 90 mins

 

[craigybagel]

Or don't do intercity work. Bit of suburban stopping work.

Or don’t drive long distance, intercity trains. Plenty of suburban, short regionals and metro work that take less than 90 mins

Fair point. I've only ever worked for former Regional Railways or Intercity TOCs.

That said, I've been led to believe that particularly darn sarf the diagrams are pretty intense (and in some cases involve trains with no toilets). Is it really safe to assume that you won't be expected to spend more than 90 minutes in the seat, and that you'll always have time to visit a toilet on turnaround?

 

[baz962]

Fair point. I've only ever worked for former Regional Railways or Intercity TOCs.

That said, I've been led to believe that particularly darn sarf the diagrams are pretty intense (and in some cases involve trains with no toilets). Is it really safe to assume that you won't be expected to spend more than 90 minutes in the seat, and that you'll always have time to visit a toilet on turnaround?

At my old toc , delays aside . One route was pretty much bang on 60 minutes and on all but the shortest turnarounds you could go. Toilets on route at one or two places were easy enough to visit too. The other route was 34 minutes and you walked right past the toilet at one end and had a longer turnaround at the other. I started intercity work a few weeks ago and now have a toilet onboard. That said , even at my advancing age , I can usually get to the other end in time.

 

[Eccles1983]

What do you do if you're doing say Carlisle to Edinburgh non-stop and find yourself needing a leak half way? Bottle? Cork? I know I couldn't go at Carlisle and then guarantee not to need to go again over that distance.

Stop. Contact the signaller, use the toilet, Proceed. Fill out drivers report for control at end of the day if a delay has occured.

Driving whilst distracted is setting up for a fail. Never mind this bravado, if you need to go then go.

 

[starlightEXPRESS]

Depends on the driver, each to their own. Most Paddington drivers hate doing Greenfords, but I actually quite like them, especially if you only get 2 or 3 trips (instead of the maximum 5). 12 mins each way, max speed of 40 mph, must of it slower. Loads of urban wildlife, foxes, parakeets etc. You get to see a river (Brent), a viaduct over it, a tunnel, a view of Wembley stadium, an actual signal box and some semaphore to look at (but it's not on the branch bit so you don't need to worry about it). A perfect little half day out.

Whereas 125mph in an IET is largely boring, with only the odd neutral section or TSR to keep you occupied.

How far west do you sign? I presume you get as far as Bedwyn and Oxford. Do you sign Basingstoke and all the Thames Valley branches? What about the North Downs, or is this all Reading work?

 

[800 Driver]

How far west do you sign? I presume you get as far as Bedwyn and Oxford. Do you sign Basingstoke and all the Thames Valley branches? What about the North Downs, or is this all Reading work?

We go as far west as Bristol. Basingstoke / Henley / Gatwick / Marlow is all Reading work