Train Headlights

[Deepgreen]

A question, mainly for drivers. Train headlights these days are getting brighter and more intense. Have they reached a point where the dazzle is becoming a problem for drivers in terms of seeing signals, signs, etc., just after having passed another train with a particularly intense headlight? My GWR 166 this morning had an exceedingly dazzling light (LED replacement for filament type) which may have been a chance combination of focus and angling, but I think it would have rendered any drivers approaching it temporarily dazzled/blinded.

Does the brightness of lights today assist drivers with seeing the line ahead (reflective signs, etc.) or is it still basically for visibility to others?

 

[Hairy Bear]

Does the brightness of lights today assist drivers with seeing the line ahead (reflective signs, etc.) or is it still basically for visibility to others?

Yes it helps alot. But the need to be kept clean and adjusted regularly.
But yes, these recent conversions to Freightliner 66/6 and a few DB 66 with LED headlights are incredibly dazzling and it looks like the 68's are going to be the same. Not nice or helpful for us.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I find the voyagers particularly dazzling and have to look away when passing one.
I can imagine our 66's with the later brighter headlights are quite dazzling as well.

 

[507 001]

Freightliner 66s are horrible to pass, especially for us at Navigation Road as we're on the Cess side.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[furnessvale]

I wonder if polarised lights would help?

Polarise the headlights vertically and provide drivers with shields that are polarised horizontally, or possibly slightly off from true horizontal.

Drivers protected but lineside see full lights.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Did the headlights on the old slamdoor stock used to be aimed a little to the left? Would that help avoid dazzling drivers of trains coming the other way?

 

[380101]

Did the headlights on the old slamdoor stock used to be aimed a little to the left? Would that help avoid dazzling drivers of trains coming the other way?

Most of the new HiD lights are set to be dipped to the left - the left hand one should be used at night and the right during the day. Using the day side at night results in major dazzling! The 380s have fantastic lights as do all the 156 units in ScotRail. The WHL 156 units also have the facility to have both lights on at once which is particularly useful on single lines at night. I always like getting a WHL unit on a Stranraer run at night purely for the extra illumination the lights provide.

 

[Deepgreen]

Most of the new HiD lights are set to be dipped to the left - the left hand one should be used at night and the right during the day. Using the day side at night results in major dazzling! The 380s have fantastic lights as do all the 156 units in ScotRail. The WHL 156 units also have the facility to have both lights on at once which is particularly useful on single lines at night. I always like getting a WHL unit on a Stranraer run at night purely for the extra illumination the lights provide.

I imagine single, twisting lines are more comfortable to drive with modern lights and obviously there is a greatly-reduced opportunity to dazzle oncoming drivers. Just out of interest, for journeys that cover the transition from day to night, do drivers change lights at some point?

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[driver_m]

For me, certain trains have gone too far. I think pendos and voyagers are at the top limit for acceptibility, 350's are too bright on both day and night light. Working 4 track sections means i'll get dazzled no matter which are actually on. But the new 68's are absolutely horrendous if the brightest setting is on. How on earth they've been approved I'll never know.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there a standard (min/max brightness, angle, etc) set in stone somewhere or is it down to what each manufacturer chooses?

 

[TRAX]

There'll be a minimum and a maximum for a few settings like brightness, colour, orientation, etc.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Voyagers seem to be particularly bright! Another point, I find it unbelievable to see how many drivers think it's acceptable to run about in the pitch black with day lights on. Always helpful to be temporarily blinded on the approach to a red signal...

 

[SPADTrap]

Voyagers seem to be particularly bright! Another point, I find it unbelievable to see how many drivers think it's acceptable to run about in the pitch black with day lights on. Always helpful to be temporarily blinded on the approach to a red signal...

That is extremely annoying but a few weeks ago I had a headlight (night) fail so during darkness had no choice but use the day setting - if I could have written on the PIDS 'SORRY' I would have!

 

[scott118]

I was always under the impression it was NR that set the standards, regarding lumination heights, beam angles etc, however the brightness, was down to the manufacturers..

Headlights, should be used to warn 'others' of an oncoming train, not to light the way for visibility. Your route knowledge should shine brighter than any led. However the recent trend, improved technology, lumen settings, disappointingly, do seem to be impairing passing drivers.

 

[Deepgreen]

Voyagers seem to be particularly bright! Another point, I find it unbelievable to see how many drivers think it's acceptable to run about in the pitch black with day lights on. Always helpful to be temporarily blinded on the approach to a red signal...

This was one of the aspects of these lights that I feared would be an issue - temporary blindness and signals don't mix. I am very surprised the Safety Case doesn't require quite strict (and realistic) parameters to be adhered to when designing/fitting headlights to stock, rather than the apparent "race to be brightest" we seem to have at the moment.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If an oncoming headlamp dazzles a driver, I imagine the driver would be perfectly within their rights to stop their train for ten minutes or so until their eyesight has recovered, making clear to the signalman the exact reason?

It wouldn't take a lot of drivers doing this before the design of the lights would start to get looked at by those at the very top.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there a standard (min/max brightness, angle, etc) set in stone somewhere or is it down to what each manufacturer chooses?

Yes there is most definitely a standard, it's the same one that gets fairly regularly quoted in threads about yellow warning panels - or the future lack of them if the lights are up to the current visibility rules.

http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131 Iss 1.pdf

 

[M7R]

I will have a good read of that later, I am used to dealing with vehicle lights and the approval of them so it will be interesting too see how the 2 compare. (In the vehicle world when you get over a certain brightness of lamp, or you have HID, LEDs... You have to have self levelling lights (or suspension) and head light washer as dirty lights screws up the beam pattern and you can easily dazzle on coming drivers

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yes there is most definitely a standard, it's the same one that gets fairly regularly quoted in threads about yellow warning panels - or the future lack of them if the lights are up to the current visibility rules.

http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131 Iss 1.pdf

If it is dazzling drivers (and presumably PWAY staff) then that would be an argument for slightly less dazzling headlamps and the retention of yellow panels.

 

[edwin_m]

I will have a good read of that later, I am used to dealing with vehicle lights and the approval of them so it will be interesting too see how the 2 compare. (In the vehicle world when you get over a certain brightness of lamp, or you have HID, LEDs... You have to have self levelling lights (or suspension) and head light washer as dirty lights screws up the beam pattern and you can easily dazzle on coming drivers

I've just tried to follow the document trail and it leads to the reference to another standard in Appendix J-1 of the TSI. The TSI text itself hints that there is a limit on maximum brightness of the headlights in dimmed mode.

 

[Trog]

If you are on track a too bright headlamp can mean that all you can see is the oncoming dazzle, and not the train behind it. So you loose the sense of how fast the train is moving, and the clue as to what the train is likely to do from what stock it is. Not an absolute safety risk as you should be standing out anyway, but it is not helpful. That said a bright but not too bright headlamp is probably the best safety innovation of the last twenty years, for working on track.

 

[380101]

Well, If i was put in the position of meeting an oncoming driver on a twisting, single line the last concern of mine would be how bright my headlights were!

To be honest, you're route knowledge should more than compensate for crap headlights. They are merely an aid to route knowledge.



The rule book just states that they must be illuminated and displaying the correct day or night beam. Usually common sense about when to switch over.

Agree on the route knowledge, but route knowledge doesn't show you the deer, cows and sheep that may be on the line ahead of you. Hitting deer is very common on the Stranraer route. Seeing them earlier gives you a chance to blast the horn to hopefully hunt them off the line and away from the train. Don't however blast the horn at sheep - they just look at you and run onto the track (hit 5 yesterday doing 60mph)

 

[455driver]

(hit 5 yesterday doing 60mph)

You have got some fast sheep up there!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

They came of the Autobaahn.

 

[380101]

You have got some fast sheep up there!

They weren't fast enough

 

[rebmcr]

You have got some fast sheep up there!

Ha!

They weren't fast enough

HA!