Train service from Hartford to Liverpool in 1860s

[Tony Whittaker]

Hi

Does anyone have knowledge of how many trains a day, and their journey times, there would have been from Hartford to Liverpool and back in the 1860s on the WCML.

And I presume that before the Chester to Mancheaster line was opened, with the Greenbank Station in Hartford, the only easy way from Hartford to either Manchester or Chester by train would have been via Crewe?

Grateful thanks

Tony

 

[krus_aragon]

The closest I can see date-wise at the moment is 1887, in an online copy of a Bradshaw: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.319510022004750;view=1up;seq=262

It looks like it was seven services a day by then, excluding trains for the Over and Wharton branch (which opened in the 1880s).

 

[Tony Whittaker]

Mega thanks, that's really helpful.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I have a rather poor photocopy of the February 1863 Bradshaw. This is not entirely clear as the columns are not in chronological sequence during the day and Hartford appears to have been a location where some faster trains overtook locals (e.g. successive northbound departures at 4.12 and 4.15p.m.).

There appear to have been nine trains northbound and seven southbound calls on weekdays. Two calls in each direction on Sundays. All trains via Warrington, of course. Typical journey times to/from Liverpool of around 70 minutes on a fast train but some stoppers took up to two hours.

You could get to Manchester by changing at Earlestown as well as via Crewe. Or coach to Northwich, Cheshire Midland train to Altrincham then change to Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham line.

Feel free to PM me if you want more specific details.

 

[Bevan Price]

The route via Runcorn only opened in 1869. Before that, trains to Liverpool ran via Warrington Bank Quay.
Bradshaw 1863 reprint shows 9 northbound trains from Hartford, either direct to, or with connections for Liverpool.
(Bradshaw did not always distinguish clearly between through services and connections. The fastest journey was 68 minutes by expresses shown calling only at Warrington. Returning south from Liverpool, the best time was 60 minutes. Stopping trains could take between 85 minutes to over 2 hours.
There were only 2 northbound services on sundays, both in the afternoon.

Edit - Posted before I saw Dr Hoo had also replied..

 

[Tony Whittaker]

Thanks Guys, that fills in the picture. Very grateful.

Might I also ask what the service from Hartford Greenbank to Chester and Manchester looked like, once that line and station had opened in, I understand 1870?

 

[Dr Hoo]

The nearest (subsequent) Bradshaw reprint to 1870 is August 1887.

Hartford & Greenbank had 8 weekday trains to and from Chester (Northgate) and Manchester (Central). These were at very broadly two-hour intervals.
There were three trains each way on Sundays. With timings perhaps dictated by Royal Mail or press delivery requirements these were peculiarly spaced.
Typical journey times to Chester (with five intermediate calls) were about 35 minutes. Manchester (typically fast from Central to Altrincham) varied around an hour.
Some other services only ran between Northwich and Manchester.

There were also some Acton Bridge-Hartford & Greenbank-Northwich [reverse]-Middlewich-Sandbach-Crewe trains by 1887. I don't know when those started. It gets a bit complicated to work out additional connections to Manchester from these.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tony Whittaker]

Thanks Dr Hoo. Really helpful.

By the way, as I see you are in Hope Valley, I used to live in Chinley in the 50s and 60s and coming back from school late would use a Hope Valley train from New Mills to Chinley.