Train ticket machine did not print all tickets..SO NOW BEEN PENALISED

[htown77]

HI guys....

I recently bought advance train tickets online (thetrainline.com). They cost £47 return.

On the day of travel I got to King's Cross station and went straight to the ticket machine to print my tickets. I entered the code and the machine printed just 2 tickets and it paused...

I was in a bit of a hurry because my train was in 10 minutes, so in the heat of the moment I just assumed that was all the tickets; one going to Scunthorpe and the other coming back.

So I just grabbed the 2 coupons and i was off to the train. The barriers where open so i did not have to insert the ticket. The train departed and after about an hour an inspector came to check tickets. I had them in my pocket so just showed both of them... it turns out the ticket I had was only for thr return journey and the other coupon I had was just seat confirmation.

Long story short the inspector issued me another ticket of £105 to pay within 21 days, despite fact i showed her the online booking confirmation on my phone.

Please people, what should I do?

It was an honest mistake but should i pay £105 or what should i do??????,,,

 

[yorkie]

Were you charged an Anytime Single at £108? This is, unfortunately, correct if you can't produce a ticket on board the train.

As you used thetrainline.com, you would have paid some fees on top of the full price of the East Coast Advance fares, and EC don't have a record of your booking either.

Had you used East Coast's own website, you'd have not paid any fees, would have got a small online discount (between 1% and 11%) and EC would be, in my opinion, very likely to issue a refund/cancel the charge, providing you were on the correct train and it was a one-off incident.

As it is, EC just might offer a gesture of goodwill by cancelling the charge, however their debt collection agency will be chasing payment right now, your booking wasn't with EC either, so it's a bit tricky as there are several parties involved.

My advice would be to write to East Coast Customer Relations urgently, apologising for your mistake and asking if they will show goodwill. Send a copy to the debt collection agency that will now (or shortly) be demanding payment, but the debt collection agency will not cancel the charges unless EC instruct them to. Enclose a photo/scan of all relevant coupons held, along with a printout of your booking confirmation.

EC are not obliged to cancel the fare, which appears to have been applied correctly, and if they do not cancel it I urge you to pay promptly to avoid additional admin fees being applied.

10 minutes should have been ample time to ensure all tickets were printed, so I'm puzzled as to why you rushed off without checking when there was sufficient time. The machines do say when tickets are still being printed, and when it is complete.

Due to this sort of incident, some machines have been 'upgraded' to no longer allow access to collect any of the coupons until all have been printed.

 

[bb21]

If there were an error with the ticket machine with that pause, there would be a log so it might be worth contacting East Coast about it. That might throw some weight behind your case and they may well use discretion to refund you the additional ticket you were charged with.

Short of that, not much that I can think of.

 

[BillyBoy]

I had a similar problem with a ticket machine at Kings Cross last Thursday. It was the second one in from the left in the main ticket hall. I should have received 3 coupons and it only printed one.
I suspect these machines print from 2 rolls, as I have noticed differences between the stock, and one of the 2 wasn't working.

 

[island]

Please be aware that payment is required on an Unpaid Fare Notice within the time period indicated on the notice (this may be 10, 21 or 28 days depending on the company involved and this is independent of any appeal you may wish to make. If you pay and your appeal is upheld you will receive a refund, but if you don't pay then admin fees will start mounting up on the case.

 

[najaB]

Long story short the inspector issued me another ticket of £105 to pay within 21 days, despite fact i showed her the online booking confirmation on my phone.

Please people, what should I do?

It was an honest mistake but should i pay £105 or what should i do??????,,,

I appreciate it was an easy mistake to make, but it boils down to you were on a train without a ticket.

If I was in your position, I would pay the £105 straight away to stop things getting any worse, then make a complaint to the customer service department of whichever TOC operates the ticket machines. If you're not able to pay the full amount, then get in contact with them ASAP to explain the situation.

I wouldn't hold out that much hope of getting a refund though because they will likely say that you should have checked the tickets before leaving the machine.

 

[BillyBoy]

. . . they will likely say that you should have checked the tickets before leaving the machine.

So you check, notice some missing, what then? When it happened to me there was a massive queue at both the tickets for today and advance ticket counters. The OP only had 10 minutes to make their train.

 

[yorkie]

So you check, notice some missing, what then? When it happened to me there was a massive queue at both the tickets for today and advance ticket counters. The OP only had 10 minutes to make their train.

My advice would be different in the case you describe. I would also be reminding East Coast of their Passengers Charter commitments in respect of queuing times (which they regularly breach at certain stations!) and also contacting Passenger Focus. I'd also have approached the Guard prior to departure to explain the situation.

 

[htown77]

were you charged an anytime single at £108? This is, unfortunately, correct if you can't produce a ticket on board the train.

As you used thetrainline.com, you would have paid some fees on top of the full price of the east coast advance fares, and ec don't have a record of your booking either.

Had you used east coast's own website, you'd have not paid any fees, would have got a small online discount (between 1% and 11%) and ec would be, in my opinion, very likely to issue a refund/cancel the charge, providing you were on the correct train and it was a one-off incident.

As it is, ec just might offer a gesture of goodwill by cancelling the charge, however their debt collection agency will be chasing payment right now, your booking wasn't with ec either, so it's a bit tricky as there are several parties involved.

My advice would be to write to east coast customer relations urgently, apologising for your mistake and asking if they will show goodwill. Send a copy to the debt collection agency that will now (or shortly) be demanding payment, but the debt collection agency will not cancel the charges unless ec instruct them to. Enclose a photo/scan of all relevant coupons held, along with a printout of your booking confirmation.

Ec are not obliged to cancel the fare, which appears to have been applied correctly, and if they do not cancel it i urge you to pay promptly to avoid additional admin fees being applied.

10 minutes should have been ample time to ensure all tickets were printed, so i'm puzzled as to why you rushed off without checking when there was sufficient time. The machines do say when tickets are still being printed, and when it is complete.

Due to this sort of incident, some machines have been 'upgraded' to no longer allow access to collect any of the coupons until all have been printed.

Thank you soo much for the advise...will just have to cough up the huge fare i guess

 

[185]

If there were an error with the ticket machine with that pause, there would be a log so it might be worth contacting East Coast about it. That might throw some weight behind your case and they may well use discretion to refund you the additional ticket you were charged with.

Short of that, not much that I can think of.

Agree. TVM maintenance at all operators seems to be a problem at present. Counted 9 out of use at Piccadilly yesterday, with 12 not accepting cash. I'm assuming the machines at KX belong to East Coast.

 

[Searle]

If there were an error with the ticket machine with that pause, there would be a log so it might be worth contacting East Coast about it. That might throw some weight behind your case and they may well use discretion to refund you the additional ticket you were charged with.

Short of that, not much that I can think of.

Agree. TVM maintenance at all operators seems to be a problem at present. Counted 9 out of use at Piccadilly yesterday, with 12 not accepting cash. I'm assuming the machines at KX belong to East Coast.

Pretty sure there's a mixture, as I'm certain that there are fcc (well GN now!) By P9-11, but I'd be surprised if he used those haha

 

[yorkie]

Thank you soo much for the advise...will just have to cough up the huge fare i guess

I wouldn't give up hope of a suitably-worded appeal being successful. Others have been successful, though each situation is unique.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm assuming the machines at KX belong to East Coast.

There's a mixture. You can be charged different fares for certain journeys depending on which machines you use!

 

[Haywain]

My advice would be different in the case you describe. I would also be reminding East Coast of their Passengers Charter commitments in respect of queuing times (which they regularly breach at certain stations!) and also contacting Passenger Focus. I'd also have approached the Guard prior to departure to explain the situation.

A number of people queuing does not constitute a breach of queuing times. There does seem to be a general assumption that any sort of queue is going to take a long time to clear, and this is often not the case.

Thank you soo much for the advise...will just have to cough up the huge fare i guess

I would strongly advise writing to EC Customer Relations about this, in parrallel to paying the UFN, with full details, including your collection reference number.

Agree. TVM maintenance at all operators seems to be a problem at present. Counted 9 out of use at Piccadilly yesterday, with 12 not accepting cash. I'm assuming the machines at KX belong to East Coast.

You are making an extremely wild generalisation there, with the evidence of one occasion on one station as backup. I suggest that your statement is complete nonsense.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You are making an extremely wild generalisation there, with the evidence of one occasion on one station as backup. I suggest that your statement is complete nonsense.

I can well believe it, it is a similar situation at London Euston, with both Virgin and London Midland machines.

The one at Apsley is forever going out of service too, usually because it's run out of ticket stock I think.

 

[yorkie]

I can well believe it, it is a similar situation at London Euston, with both Virgin and London Midland machines.

The one at Apsley is forever going out of service too, usually because it's run out of ticket stock I think.

I can too, but they are different operators' machines. To be fair, I've not noticed this as a problem with East Coast.

I can only recall one recent issue with EC, it was a Sunday morning and it looked like the TVMs had just had a software update that was requiring some manual intervention, and the staff were visibly resolving the issue. Although most TVMs were not working at that point, it was a quiet time so there were no queues.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I can too, but they are different operators' machines. To be fair, I've not noticed this as a problem with East Coast.

Agreed. Although I have noticed a few times with EC machines that some tickets can get stuck in the "slot" where they drop into the collection tray from. It's happened to me a few times, if not everything prints I stick my hand up and get the stuck tickets. One of the ones on the concourse at Kings Cross has done it to me, as have similar EC machines at Leeds and Durham.

The problem with that issue is that the TVM thinks it has printed everything, so there will be no error message on the system.

 

[najaB]

So you check, notice some missing, what then?

Then don't board the train if you don't have a ticket. Unfortunate, but the TOC's answer will simply be that you should leave enough time to collect your tickets. People think nothing of arriving 90 minutes early for a flight, but leave 10 minutes (or less!) to collect tickets and catch a train.

 

[yorkie]

Then don't board the train if you don't have a ticket. Unfortunate, but the TOC's answer will simply be that you should leave enough time to collect your tickets. People think nothing of arriving 90 minutes early for a flight, but leave 10 minutes (or less!) to collect tickets and catch a train.

10 minutes to collect a ticket?! It shouldn't take anywhere near that long.

Which TOC requests passengers allow over 10 minutes? I'd like to see where that is written in their charter, and I'd like Passenger Focus and the DfT to take issue with it if so.

If the TOCs want us to allow 10 minutes for TOD, then they need to go back to the days of offering free postage!

 

[najaB]

10 minutes to collect a ticket?! It shouldn't take anywhere near that long.

Agreed. But how many times have we had people start their posts in this section of the forum with "I arrived at the station a few minutes before the train was due to depart..."?

While ten minutes will normally be sufficient, sometimes ***** happens and budgeting only ten minutes for arriving at the station, collecting your ticket, finding the right platform and boarding your train doesn't leave much slack for when things don't go to plan.

Most, if not all TOC's have a statement similar to "You must allow sufficient time to collect your tickets before boarding the train." in their T&C's (though none actually state what they consider to be sufficient).

So the TOC would be quite likely to say that it was the OP's fault that they didn't allow sufficient time.

 

[185]

For purchasing, maybe ten minutes.

But expecting 10 mins to simply collect a pre-purchased ticket seems a little too much.

Whilst passengers often come up with all sorts of daft excuses, I've even less respect for companies who expect the customers to jump backwards through hoops, then expect me to penalise them for not getting a ticket.

 

[najaB]

Back to above, for purchasing, maybe ten minutes.

But expecting 10 mins to simply collect a pre-purchased ticket seems a little too much.

In almost all cases, ten minutes is overkill but sometimes schimdt happens.

If I book tickets a week in advance and only leave myself ten minutes to collect them, I've nobody but myself to blame if I don't have enough time to sort things out before the train leaves.

 

[MikeWh]

In almost all cases, ten minutes is overkill but sometimes schimdt happens.

If I book tickets a week in advance and only leave myself ten minutes to collect them, I've nobody but myself to blame if I don't have enough time to sort things out before the train leaves.

So how much time should be left? How many full EC trains would it take to fill the concourse at Kings Cross? If everybody arrived 30 minutes early there would be chaos.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can we keep this discussion on topic. A number of posts which were personal conversation and therefore adding nothing to the discussion have been deleted. If those people who were involved wish to continue their discussion I would ask that they do so via PM.

 

[Haywain]

So how much time should be left? How many full EC trains would it take to fill the concourse at Kings Cross? If everybody arrived 30 minutes early there would be chaos.

The reality is that everybody should allow themselves good time to get things done ahead of being on the train. If you plan to arrive at a major station such as King's Cross only 5 minutes before departure then you are heading for problems. It shouldn't be any great hardship to spend a bit of time waiting around when trains regularly board 20 minutes before departure. This is especially the case when using a ticket that is only valid on the booked train.

 

[najaB]

If everybody arrived 30 minutes early there would be chaos.

Again, I'm not saying that everyone should arrive 30 minutes early, just that people need to leave enough time to make sure that they can buy/collect their tickets. The alternative is ending up on a train without a ticket - and another thread on here.

 

[talldave]

The worrying issue here is that however much time you have to spare, what is the solution? The booking has been "collected" and yet you don't have the ticket (s) you need. How would ticket office staff validate the legitimacy of such a claim from a passenger? After all, someone could collect a Travelcard ticket (just one piece of paper), claim it didn't print and ask for another, then give it to a friend? So I would imagine such a claim would be treated with scepticism?

 

[najaB]

The booking has been "collected" and yet you don't have the ticket (s) you need. How would ticket office staff validate the legitimacy of such a claim from a passenger?

My uneducated guess is that if the other coupons have printed then they'll be stuck in the machine and should be retrievable, if they haven't printed then the machine (in theory) should have some record of the non-print.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

If you plan to arrive at a major station such as King's Cross only 5 minutes before departure then you are heading for problems. I

If you are a regular commuter, you learn the tricks to save the odd minute here or there. It pays off if you can connect with an earlier train. Whilst season tickets undoubtedly help, anyone buying daily would have to make their ticket collection optimal.

 

[Andrewlong]

Also the queues at some ticket machines can be as long at queuing at the ticket office because some people prefer to interact with a machine than ask a human being to buy a ticket. Often case with younger people.

I look forward to the day when we can have the option of e-tickets send to smartphones rather than small bits of cardboard which have to collected at a station. TFL can do oyster or contactless so why is the rest of the network still stuck in the C20?

 

[thelongestroad]

In my ticket office days this happened all the time. If the machine didn't print a ticket because of a fault then this is logged on the computer controlling the machines and it usually threw up an error on the TOD.

In my experience the majority of tickets were left behind in the machines.