Train Travel Out Of Germany On Eve Of WW2

[CathTB]

Hi there

I wonder if anyone can help me. I'm writing a historical novel and have a British character who wants to escape from Nazi Germany to France (and from there to Britain) at the very last minute, just before France joined Britain in declaring war on Germany.

Is it possible that international trains between Germany and France were still running until the last moment? If not, how could someone have got out of Germany?

I understand that planes would most likely have been grounded.

I'm thinking maybe it might have been easier for my character to travel out of Germany via Belgium or Holland. Would trains still have been running between those two countries and Germany up to and after WW2 was declared?

Thanks so much for any pointers!

Catherine

 

[The exile]

Hi there

I wonder if anyone can help me. I'm writing a historical novel and have a British character who wants to escape from Nazi Germany to France (and from there to Britain) at the very last minute, just before France joined Britain in declaring war on Germany. Is it possible that international trains between Germany and France were still running until the last moment? If not, how could someone have got out of Germany? I understand that planes would most likely have been grounded. I'm thinking maybe it might have been easier for my character to travel out of Germany via Belgium or Holland. Would trains still have been running between those two countries and Germany up to and after after WW2 was declared?

Thanks so much for any pointers!

Catherine

Could they go via Switzerland? At that time, Basel's tram network stretched into both France and Germany. I imagine that being "local" connections these would have been maintained as long as possible. Depends whether your character is able to cross frontiers legally! Also of note is that the Badischer Bahnhof in Basel, although "in" Basel and therefore "in" Switzerland, is in fact German territory. Last time I was there you still had to pass through what was obviously the full border set up (though unstaffed) to get to the street. What the arrangements were on the trams, I have no idea.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If it's any guide, the Kindertransport programme ran right up to the declaration of war after the invasion of Poland on 1 September 1939.
German ports were out of bounds so trains ran into Netherlands/Belgium/France and Switzerland, also to Denmark (and Sweden by ship).

 

[Gloster]

I do not know, but I would have thought that through trains probably ceased on 1 September, or even a day or two earlier, as the various countries‘ railways would not want their coaches to be trapped in another country. Local trains probably continued to run up to the last station before the border, although this might not be their normal terminus if that was just the other side of the border. It would then be possible to walk across the border, as long as the border had not been closed, but there would probably be a more thorough inspection of papers and luggage by the guards. I do not think that they would have obstructed the departure of British citizens as, if my recollection of long ago reading has not faded, Hitler was still hoping the Britain would give way again as it did with Czechoslovakia.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Not of direct relvance to your query, but my father, left Germany in 1936 because of his Jewish ancestry to live in England with a guardian, under a scheme for refugees. But he then made a return trip back to Germany to visit friends and relatives a year or so later, in about 1937 or 1938. With the Nazis in full control of Germany by then, to me that seems midbogglingly risky, but he was quite sanguine about it. So travel, even for those of Jewish origin, must have possible - provided you had the right paperwork. Probably the last time he saw many of those people.

 

[Gloster]

A further thought is it might depend where in Germany they were coming from: if they were in the northern half it might be just as ‘easy’ to go through Luxembourg, Belgium or The Netherlands; Denmark or Sweden would also be possible, but would result in a more difficult onward journey to Britain. It might also depend on how deep a knowledge they had of the international situation: if they realised that Britain and France might ally against Germany, they might choose to go via the Benelux countries as there would be less chance of a sudden border closure. (All this is just thoughts from my overheated brain.)

 

[CathTB]

I just logged in again. Oh my goodness, thank you all so much for these replies, they are SO helpful! My book is also about the increasing repression of the Jews and the Kindertransports that went through Holland in summer 1939 - what a traumatic subject to research that has been, and I agree, Shimbleshanks that it was quite a feat for your father to visit Germany in 1937-38 given his Jewish ancestry, as the Jews were already heavily persecuted by then. I hadn't thought about Switzerland, The Exile, and I am definitely going to look into that, although my character is travelling from Berlin. And thanks, Gloster, the idea that they might be able to walk over the border is a great one and I will definitely explore that. I'm thinking that having my characters go via Belgium might be easiest. I really want to get it right - or at least well within the realms of the possible. If the research is wrong readers definitely let you know! Thanks so much again, all. Catherine

 

[SteveM70]

My late mother-in-law was brought up in England (her grandfather was the first to come here) but spent a lot of time with her German relatives, and was in Garmisch as the outbreak of war got more and more likely.

She got a telegram from her apparently quite fearsome father telling her to get out of Germany asap, and left pretty much straight away (she did briefly consider pretending not to have received the telegram but was too scared of the consequences!). I’m 95% sure that she left by train but other than guessing from looking at a map I don’t know what route.

The borders closed less than a week after she came home

 

[CathTB]

Wow Steve, she was pretty lucky not to be interned as an enemy alien. And that's so funny, my novel is also part set in the mountains near Garmisch. It would definitely have made sense for your MIL to go via Switzerland.

 

[StephenHunter]

As a further note, it was clear that a war was coming in the last week of August as the situation between Germany and Poland heated up - a group of German operatives launched an attack in Poland on 25/26 August as they'd not gotten the message that Hitler was delaying the invasion.

Jabłonków incident - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jabłonków incident (Polish: Incydent jabłonkowski, Czech: Jablunkovský incident) refers to the events of the night of 25–26 August 1939, along the Polish-Slovak border, when a group of German Abwehr agents attacked a rail station in Mosty. The main purpose of the attack was to capture the Jablunkov Pass, with its strategic railway tunnel, until the arrival of the German armed forces. The attackers were repelled by units of the Polish Army, and the incident is regarded as a prelude to the German invasion of Poland.[1] The Jabłonków Incident has been named the first commando operation of the Second World War.[2]

 

[SteveM70]

Wow Steve, she was pretty lucky not to be interned as an enemy alien. And that's so funny, my novel is also part set in the mountains near Garmisch. It would definitely have made sense for your MIL to go via Switzerland.

Yeah she was lucky.

As was the man she would later marry. He was shot twice - once through his chest, once in his thumb - on Crete, was taken PoW, then escaped with three or four others, and got home via a hugely circuitous route through North Africa.

When he told people the tale, he’d pause at the end and drop the punchline, “by the time we got home, the war was over and the people we’d left in the PoW camp had got back first”

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The last 'normal' day for cross channel services was 1st September after which a lot of the ships were immediately requisitioned. Only a very limited, strictly controlled, service continued between Dover and Calais.

International trains still ran between Germany and the neutral Netherlands until it was invaded in May 1940. Hoek / Flushng to Harwich also ceased on 1st Sept, however, so your hero would have had to make it to Calais. A heavily loaded SS 'Prague' was the last boat out of the Hoek.

 

[Gloster]

There was a thread called, I think, ‘ Last pre WW2 boat train ‘ around the beginning of the year. This is a bit peripheral to your question, but might help a (very small) bit.

 

[30907]

Another route from Berlin would have been northwards to Denmark (Rostock-Gedser) or Sweden (Sassnitz-Malmo) thence by ferry across the North Sea (Esbjerg-Harwich/Newcastle, Gothenburg-Harwich).
You'd need to check the details of 1939 ferry routes - I've had a look at the summer 39 LNER timetable on www.timetableworld.com - the Esbjerg-Harwich route certainly ran, and there was a weekly Associated Humber Lines Hamburg-Immingham. No reference to Gothenburg, but there was always Fred Olsen and Bergen sailings from Norway.
However, the question is - when we're the last sailings?

 

[Gloster]

In 1939 the routes were Warnemünde-Gedser and Sassnitz-Travemünde. I think that both routes continued to run until late in the war, although with interruptions (such as the invasion of Denmark). I would think that anybody with a bit of common sense would avoid those two routes because of the risk of the service being temporarily withdrawn due to events elsewhere. There were also the rail routes to Denmark via Flensburg or Niebüll, with the former being the main route.

EDIT: If the character is in Garmisch, then heading for Switzerland is the logical way to leave Germany. Not only is it a shorter distance, but if the character travelled up through Germany, there is a risk that the situation might change while they were en route and either the border, particularly that to France, might be closed in the meanwhile or events might deteriorate to the point where they were detained as an enemy alien.

 

[Cowley]

There was a thread called, I think, ‘ Last pre WW2 boat train ‘ around the beginning of the year. This is a bit peripheral to your question, but might help a (very small) bit.

As suggested by @Gloster @CathTB - There’s some useful information in this one:

Last pre WW2 boat train

I wonder if anyone can help. We were having a debate at work (as you do) about boat trains and we wondered when the last through train from UK to Europe and vice versa ran BEFORE the second world started. I assume that all services stopped the day war was declared. Is that correct or did they...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[randyrippley]

CathTB
Is the story about an adult escaping, or children on the Kindertransport?
Different possibilities depending on which

 

[CathTB]

Just logged on again this morning, and thanks once more for all the replies. I am blown away by the knowledge on this forum. Steve that is a great story about the circuitous escape route - it would make a good book of its own. My story involves several characters and storylines, as well as several different locations - not a small book! Although one of the characters spends a fair bit of time in Garmisch, when she eventually wants to flee Germany it will be from Berlin. And thus I think those of you suggesting Holland/Belgium are right. I found the thread 'Last pre WW2 boat train' through a web search, which led me to you good people. Thank you all so much!

 

[Gloster]

A couple of pieces of information that might be of interest. As far as trains across the Danish-German border at Padborg are concerned the Paris-Copenhagen train did not leave Paris on 5 September (but presumably left on the 4th) and the southbound train of the 5th was stopped at the border (Padborg), probably around 17.00. Another through train (Nordpilen) last ran across the border on the 6th and the last boat from England to Esbjerg arrived on the 6th. It does seem that it took a couple of days for international traffic over this border to a neutral country to be stopped, but I would doubt that anyone would have banked their life or freedom on it not happening immediately.

Source: International Tog via Jylland; Bruun-Petersen og Poulsen; Banebøger; 2002.

 

[The exile]

Just logged on again this morning, and thanks once more for all the replies. I am blown away by the knowledge on this forum. Steve that is a great story about the circuitous escape route - it would make a good book of its own. My story involves several characters and storylines, as well as several different locations - not a small book! Although one of the characters spends a fair bit of time in Garmisch, when she eventually wants to flee Germany it will be from Berlin. And thus I think those of you suggesting Holland/Belgium are right. I found the thread 'Last pre WW2 boat train' through a web search, which led me to you good people. Thank you all so much!

Just remembered George Clare’s account of his “escape” from Vienna to London (“Last Waltz in Vienna”) which included an attempt to travel from Berlin to Lithuania. Given the fact that Germany’s first move was against Poland, possibly of less use by September 1939!

 

[mike57]

Maybe come at it from a different direction, decide what date works best for your character and story line and then try and research routes and options for that date, and see if it looks even vaugely possible.

This resource may help: https://www.deutsches-kursbuch.de/index.htm

Its all in German but I think its fairly easy to navigate, there are maps and traditional timetable and it has timetables for summer 1939 (Kursbuch is the 'all line time table', a thick book which I had to lug around when travelling in Germany in the early 80s.)

 

[CathTB]

A couple of pieces of information that might be of interest. As far as trains across the Danish-German border at Padborg are concerned the Paris-Copenhagen train did not leave Paris on 5 September (but presumably left on the 4th) and the southbound train of the 5th was stopped at the border (Padborg), probably around 17.00. Another through train (Nordpilen) last ran across the border on the 6th and the last boat from England to Esbjerg arrived on the 6th. It does seem that it took a couple of days for international traffic over this border to a neutral country to be stopped, but I would doubt that anyone would have banked their life or freedom on it not happening immediately.

Source: International Tog via Jylland; Bruun-Petersen og Poulsen; Banebøger; 2002.

Thank you so much for this!

Just remembered George Clare’s account of his “escape” from Vienna to London (“Last Waltz in Vienna”) which included an attempt to travel from Berlin to Lithuania. Given the fact that Germany’s first move was against Poland, possibly of less use by September 1939!

I think I've actually got this book. Thanks for the tip!

Maybe come at it from a different direction, decide what date works best for your character and story line and then try and research routes and options for that date, and see if it looks even vaugely possible.

This resource may help: https://www.deutsches-kursbuch.de/index.htm

Its all in German but I think its fairly easy to navigate, there are maps and traditional timetable and it has timetables for summer 1939 (Kursbuch is the 'all line time table', a thick book which I had to lug around when travelling in Germany in the early 80s.)

Thanks for that link, Mike. I speak German so I will look it up!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

At the other end of the WW2 - Churchill insisted on the restart of a limited London - Paris service on the 15th January 1945 for those wishing to visit the French capital. A service which was strictly controlled for essential travellers , with special permits neccessary.

There were some German ferry vans trapped in the UK from 1939 - they were carefully examined to see where / if there any obvious weak spots for sabotage purposes on the Continent and then released for "best use" in traffic requirements domestically. Much like the retarders installed at Whitemoor pre-war which were of German origin , it was known they were installed at the well known and much bombed yard at Hamm - so they were likewise given the once over with a view to sabotage......

Both facts discovered only this week !

 

[etr221]

There were some German ferry vans trapped in the UK from 1939 - they were carefully examined to see where / if there any obvious weak spots for sabotage purposes on the Continent and then released for "best use" in traffic requirements domestically. Much like the retarders installed at Whitemoor pre-war which were of German origin , it was known they were installed at the well known and much bombed yard at Hamm - so they were likewise given the once over with a view to sabotage......

Both facts discovered only this week !

I think one of Gerry Fiennes stories was of him hosting a visit of RAF bombing types to Whiremoor Yard and pointing out which were the bits needed to be hit (when they went to Hamm) that would knock it out - and which were the much larger areas that could be fixed in a day or so.

 

[zwk500]

I just logged in again. Oh my goodness, thank you all so much for these replies, they are SO helpful! My book is also about the increasing repression of the Jews and the Kindertransports that went through Holland in summer 1939 - what a traumatic subject to research that has been, and I agree, Shimbleshanks that it was quite a feat for your father to visit Germany in 1937-38 given his Jewish ancestry, as the Jews were already heavily persecuted by then. I hadn't thought about Switzerland, The Exile, and I am definitely going to look into that, although my character is travelling from Berlin. And thanks, Gloster, the idea that they might be able to walk over the border is a great one and I will definitely explore that. I'm thinking that having my characters go via Belgium might be easiest. I really want to get it right - or at least well within the realms of the possible. If the research is wrong readers definitely let you know! Thanks so much again, all. Catherine

My grandfather left Germany in February 1939 on a Kindertransport that left from Koeln Hbf (he lived in a small village near Bonn) via Hook of Holland-Harwich to Liverpool Street (we have the original red cross 'ticket' somewhere). He was 17 I think, and had previously been interned at Dachau hence why he was given a place. He initially stayed in the UK at various locations and then travelled to Australia, all the while exchanging letters via normal post right up until September.
Much of this isn't of direct relevance to your narrative, but my Bachelor's thesis is a microhistory of the period February-August 1939 of his family's life in Germany at that time, using the letters his family sent him (for obvious reasons, we do not have my grandfather's side of the correspondence). If you would like more info feel free to DM me.

On a separate note, if there is anybody who has a detailed knowledge of the Kindertransport I'd be most interested in finding out as close as possible when my Grandfather arrived at Liverpool Street for the first time. We know he had a space on the 12.02pm departure from Cologne on 7 February 1939. He went on to work for BR at Stratford Freight Depot and later Liverpool Street itself after the war. I would gladly welcome a DM. Mods, apologies if I should have started a separate thread.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Christian Wolmar's book Engines of War deals with railways in wartime (and maybe another of his books does too) - it might well cover some specific historical information about what happened about the railways at the start of hostilities. (Or it might not! It's not one of his books I have.)

 

[WesternLancer]

On a separate note, if there is anybody who has a detailed knowledge of the Kindertransport I'd be most interested in finding out as close as possible when my Grandfather arrived at Liverpool Street for the first time. We know he had a space on the 12.02pm departure from Cologne on 7 February 1939. He went on to work for BR at Stratford Freight Depot and later Liverpool Street itself after the war. I would gladly welcome a DM. Mods, apologies if I should have started a separate thread.

Fascinating post. Indeed perhaps worthy of more who may read it if in a different thread with its own title. Just wondering if it would catch the eye of someone who might know of or have access to railway paperwork detailing what platforms the connecting train(s) from Harwich would have arrived at.

Would Working Timetables from Feb 1939, if they still exist, indicate this I wonder?

Did they require more than one train to transport the children on however many days people could arrive ? Were they simply shared with other boat trains passengers on the same sailing?

 

[Taunton]

On a separate note, if there is anybody who has a detailed knowledge of the Kindertransport I'd be most interested in finding out as close as possible when my Grandfather arrived at Liverpool Street for the first time. We know he had a space on the 12.02pm departure from Cologne on 7 February 1939. He went on to work for BR at Stratford Freight Depot and later Liverpool Street itself after the war. I would gladly welcome a DM. Mods, apologies if I should have started a separate thread.

A number of us here have posted on this previously, including assembling photographs of all the bronze memorials in various city stations.

Nicholas Winton - 19 May Google icon

The Google homepage image today (Tuesday 19 May 2020) commemorates Nicholas Winton's 111th birthday. He was the organiser of the Kindertransport, which brought children out of Germany, Czechoslovakia, etc to Britain in 1938-9, just before the start of WW2. Most came via Hook-Harwich, and...

www.railforums.co.uk

The Kindertransport groups were not given special trains as such, but reserved accommodation (most likely reserved carriages) in the regular service. I did read that on such services the radio officer on the ship would telegraph ahead with load and group details once known, and the station at the port would prepare accordingly.

Leaving Cologne at Noon would get to Hook of Holland in the evening. In early 1939 the LNER steamer left Hook at 2300, and arrived at Harwich at 0600. There were three modern LNER ships, the largest on the crossing, the "Amsterdam", "Vienna", and "Prague", which ran the overnight service each way. The connecting boat train came on to arrive at Liverpool Street at 0753, typically in the long central arrival platform 10 which had a roadway alongside for all the heavy luggage. If there was a large ship load the train would be duplicated, but that would be unlikely in February.

I understand (you likely know more than me) that Nicholas Winton worked principally with children leaving Prague, and having come to the attention of LNER Chairman William Whitelaw was given a credit account to obtain tickets/travel warrants on the LNER ship, and the train to London, for those travelling. Quite possibly the same applied to other parts of the organisation.

The invoices were never sent.

 

[DarloRich]

While not railway related the famous test pilot Eric "Winkle" Brown was in Germany on commencement of the war. He had driven to Germany to take part in a student exchange. He spoke German, knew Germany well and had met several high profile Nazi leaders, been taught to fly by a senior luftwaffe chap and been at the 1936 Olympics.

He was arrested and held for 3 days before being released and escorted in his MG Magnette sports car to the Swiss border, saying they were allowing him to keep the car because they "had no spares for it"!

it all seems very odd that a military age enemy alien should be released but might serve as the basis of a story line.

 

[Gloster]

While not railway related the famous test pilot Eric "Winkle" Brown was in Germany on commencement of the war. He had driven to Germany to take part in a student exchange. He spoke German, knew Germany well and had met several high profile Nazi leaders, been taught to fly by a senior luftwaffe chap and been at the 1936 Olympics.

He was arrested and held for 3 days before being released and escorted in his MG Magnette sports car to the Swiss border, saying they were allowing him to keep the car because they "had no spares for it"!

it all seems very odd that a military age enemy alien should be released but might serve as the basis of a story line.

Most of the meetings with high ranking Luftwaffe personnel, including being taken up by Ernst Udet, took place when taken to the 1936 Olympics. Even more oddly, by the time he was pushed over the border, he was a member of the Edinburgh University’s air training unit, so not just any old possible conscript.

He did manage a fascinating life.