Trainline (Corporate) Admin fee

[bakerstreet]

Can I ask you all for your thoughts?

I’m not personally financially hit by this but my company is and I find it remarkable.

On Monday last week there was a clear do not travel advice emanating from both the TOC and local/national government

I submitted a ticket for a refund to Trainline business. The ticket had not been collected. It was only available as TOD.

I have been told the refund is now being processed but that corporate clients are still charged the £10 admin fee.

Yes I’m sure it’s in the T&Cs.

But is this right? Is it even legal to charge such a fee under circumstances where there is a blanket do not travel notice?

(For work purposes I can only use trainline)

 

[185143]

Can I ask you all for your thoughts?

I’m not personally financially hit by this but my company is and I find it remarkable.

On Monday last week there was a clear do not travel advice emanating from both the TOC and local/national government

I submitted a ticket for a refund to Trainline business. The ticket had not been collected. It was only available as TOD.

I have been told the refund is now being processed but that corporate clients are still charged the £10 admin fee.

Yes I’m sure it’s in the T&Cs.

But is this right? Is it even legal to charge such a fee under circumstances where there is a blanket do not travel notice?

(For work purposes I can only use trainline)

Given the TOCs had said "DO NOT TRAVEL" then I shouldn't think so.

I'm not one for analogies normally, but this feels much akin to a scenario of a manufacturer recalling a product, then the retailer refusing to refund in full. That wouldn't be acceptable to anybody.

Did the train you intended to catch run?

 

[bakerstreet]

Did the train you intended to catch run?

I’m not sure I just headed the warnings and didn’t pick up the ticket

 

[DelayRepay]

Can I ask you all for your thoughts?

I’m not personally financially hit by this but my company is and I find it remarkable.

On Monday last week there was a clear do not travel advice emanating from both the TOC and local/national government

I submitted a ticket for a refund to Trainline business. The ticket had not been collected. It was only available as TOD.

I have been told the refund is now being processed but that corporate clients are still charged the £10 admin fee.

Yes I’m sure it’s in the T&Cs.

But is this right? Is it even legal to charge such a fee under circumstances where there is a blanket do not travel notice?

(For work purposes I can only use trainline)

I imagine it's covered in the contract between your employer and Trainline.

 

[bakerstreet]

I imagine it's covered in the contract between your employer and Trainline.

As stated above

Yes I’m sure it’s in the T&Cs.

But T&Cs can sometimes be deemed unfair.

So in the case of Do Not Travel advice, on what basis could a vendor impose a rule which effectively provides for only a 50% refund?
Other than their own desire to do so.

 

[Watershed]

As stated above



But T&Cs can sometimes be deemed unfair.

So in the case of Do Not Travel advice, on what basis could a vendor impose a rule which effectively provides for only a 50% refund?
Other than their own desire to do so.

The concept of unfair terms generally doesn't apply in most B2B contracts.

If your train was indeed delayed or cancelled in any way, then there's a clear cut entitlement to a full, fee-free refund. If you "merely" followed advice not to travel, that entitlement is harder to make out. There is nothing in the NRCoT you can cite, for instance.

This is just one of many reasons why it is preposterous for operators to try and argue "ah, but we told you not to travel" as some sort of defence to stranding you...

 

[bakerstreet]

The concept of unfair terms generally doesn't apply in most B2B contracts.

If your train was indeed delayed or cancelled in any way, then there's a clear cut entitlement to a full, fee-free refund. If you "merely" followed advice not to travel, that entitlement is harder to make out. There is nothing in the NRCoT you can cite, for instance.

This is just one of many reasons why it is preposterous for operators to try and argue "ah, but we told you not to travel" as some sort of defence to stranding you...

The irony is the email also stated the admin fee would apply even if the train was cancelled !

 

[DelayRepay]

The irony is the email also stated the admin fee would apply even if the train was cancelled !

The company should have considered this when choosing their travel supplier.

My employer uses a corporate travel provider who charge a fee per booking - but the company is happy to pay the fee because it saves the hassle and admin associated with dealing with hundreds or thousands of individual cash expense claims, and makes employee fraud less likely. In the grand scheme of things they would not be concerned about occasionally paying a £10 admin fee.

 

[miklcct]

The irony is the email also stated the admin fee would apply even if the train was cancelled !

This certainly violates the NRCoT - will it make this unenforceable as by buying a train ticket, the customer enters a contract set out in the NRCoT?

 

[Watershed]

No; when a contract is held to contain an unfair term, it doesn't mean the whole contract is voided (because if it did, it would mean that the ticket would also need to be returned - all round a very impractical proposition).

It just means that the specific unfair term is effectively overlooked when interpreting the contract.

 

[malc-c]

Not sure if this is related or any bearing on this case, but on Saturday 16th I purchased a ticket to travel between Stevenage and Newcastle. Following the advice not to travel Monday and Tuesday I booked the journey for Wednesday 20th, however due to the aftermath of our two day summer the train was cancelled and I so I had to re-book for Thursday and claim a refund. My refund was processed for the cost of the ticket. The small "admin fee" that was additionally charged at the time of purchase was not refunded. Now granted this was only £1.50, so not a lot in the scheme of things, but in relation to this thread it shows that somewhere in their T&C's must be a clause stating that any admin fee to broker the ticker is not refundable. But it's they also get it twice as when you re-book the ticket via the website you get charged another admin fee, so in essence Trainline made £3 from the process... Again, £3 isn't going to brake the bank, but on principle does seem unfair, especially given the reason for the cancellation was totally out of my hands.

 

[Mainline421]

Not sure if this is related or any bearing on this case, but on Saturday 16th I purchased a ticket to travel between Stevenage and Newcastle. Following the advice not to travel Monday and Tuesday I booked the journey for Wednesday 20th, however due to the aftermath of our two day summer the train was cancelled and I so I had to re-book for Thursday and claim a refund. My refund was processed for the cost of the ticket. The small "admin fee" that was additionally charged at the time of purchase was not refunded. Now granted this was only £1.50, so not a lot in the scheme of things, but in relation to this thread it shows that somewhere in their T&C's must be a clause stating that any admin fee to broker the ticker is not refundable. But it's they also get it twice as when you re-book the ticket via the website you get charged another admin fee, so in essence Trainline made £3 from the process... Again, £3 isn't going to brake the bank, but on principle does seem unfair, especially given the reason for the cancellation was totally out of my hands.

Why are you paying the booking fee in the first place? You get nothing for it, and can have the exact same layout with TOCs like EMR if you value that so highly.

 

[miklcct]

Not sure if this is related or any bearing on this case, but on Saturday 16th I purchased a ticket to travel between Stevenage and Newcastle. Following the advice not to travel Monday and Tuesday I booked the journey for Wednesday 20th, however due to the aftermath of our two day summer the train was cancelled and I so I had to re-book for Thursday and claim a refund. My refund was processed for the cost of the ticket. The small "admin fee" that was additionally charged at the time of purchase was not refunded. Now granted this was only £1.50, so not a lot in the scheme of things, but in relation to this thread it shows that somewhere in their T&C's must be a clause stating that any admin fee to broker the ticker is not refundable. But it's they also get it twice as when you re-book the ticket via the website you get charged another admin fee, so in essence Trainline made £3 from the process... Again, £3 isn't going to brake the bank, but on principle does seem unfair, especially given the reason for the cancellation was totally out of my hands.

Can anyone familiar with contract law tell me if this is legal or not?

 

[Starmill]

This certainly violates the NRCoT - will it make this unenforceable as by buying a train ticket, the customer enters a contract set out in the NRCoT?

It may not be in breach of NRCoT. The concept of booking fees isn't clearly managed by the Conditions.

 

[miklcct]

It may not be in breach of NRCoT. The concept of booking fees isn't clearly managed by the Conditions.

We are talking about the admin fee of a refund, which NRCoT is very clear it isn't chargeable when the train is cancelled.

If a consumer enters a contract with a trader through an agent which charges a service fee to the customer, and the trader refuses to provide a service, is the agent obliged to refund the service fee as well? Is the answer different depending on if there is possibility to book direct or not?

 

[Starmill]

We are talking about the admin fee of a refund, which NRCoT is very clear it isn't chargeable when the train is cancelled.

I don't think that's what the post you quoted was referring to.

 

[bakerstreet]

I don't think that's what the post you quoted was referring to.

It was the £10 admin fee which is being deducted upon refund

 

[Alan Glaum]

It was the £10 admin fee which is being deducted upon refund

I took this as the booking fee on Trainline -the reason most of this forum would never use Trainline in this case

 

[DelayRepay]

If a consumer enters a contract with a trader through an agent which charges a service fee to the customer, and the trader refuses to provide a service, is the agent obliged to refund the service fee as well? Is the answer different depending on if there is possibility to book direct or not?

I think the answer is it depends on the contract/terms and conditions agreed between the customer and the agent. I think that the agent would argue they've provided the service you paid them for (booking a ticket) despite the fact that the train was subsequently cancelled.

 

[bakerstreet]

I think the answer is it depends on the contract/terms and conditions agreed between the customer and the agent. I think that the agent would argue they've provided the service you paid them for (booking a ticket) despite the fact that the train was subsequently cancelled.

In this case yes they’ve taken the booking fee. But they have now also taken the £10 admin fee fo refunding the ticket when a do not travel order was in force.

 

[DelayRepay]

In this case yes they’ve taken the booking fee. But they have now also taken the £10 admin fee fo refunding the ticket when a do not travel order was in force.

Yes, I think another poster has confused matters by adding their own query about booking fees to your thread.

To understand whether Trainline Business were entitled to take the admin fee, you would need to review the contract your employer has entered into with Trainline. As a commercial contract, it is likely to contain different terms and conditions to the consumer facing Trainline site. If your employer is unhappy about this arrangement then they could find a different travel booking agent?

I have to book my work travel through a similar portal (although not Trainline) and I know that if I booked the tickets myself, I could do it a bit cheaper. But the company value the extra services that the portal provides such as central reporting of who's booked what, central invoicing and not needing to reconcile hundreds of individual expenses claims. These extra services make paying a bit more for some tickets worthwhile.