Trains subject to a platform alteration

[avid2424]

Sunday morning, East Croydon, and Real Time Trains suggests that between 07:24 and 09:24, 20 of the 54 scheduled trains were subject to a platform alteration. By reference to Real Time Trains, it seems that all six platforms were being used

What went wrong with any plans.

For the train that I used, the tannoy announcement of the platform change was made two minutes before departure time, and required using the bridge to get from platform 2 to platform 4

Guessing, did many of the other re-platformed trains have no more than two minutes notice, and also requiring use of the bridge

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Fair question.

Some last minute platform changes at East Croydon will be fairly trivial. For example, a switch across to the other side of the same island platform, such as from platform two to platform one.

Those requiring going up, and then back down, the ramps to change from one island platform to another; for example, from platform two to platform four, are a completely different kettle of fish.

Anyone able to provide an analysis for earlier today?

 

[BurningFeetMan]

Platform changes can sometimes be if a quick check/repair is required on a particular side of the unit.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A quick look at Sunday morning at East Croydon suggests that quite a few of the platform changes were possibly only from platform 5 to the immediately adjacent platform 6 (or vice-versa).

A handful though (= low single digit numbers), were indeed from platform 4 over to platforms 1 or 2 (or vice-versa), which would be particularly irksome if announced at the last minute and you're stood already waiting on the "wrong" platform.

 

[skyhigh]

Platform changes can sometimes be if a quick check/repair is required on a particular side of the unit.

While that is true it doesn't explain 20 out of 54 trains having a platform alteration.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

While that is true it doesn't explain 20 out of 54 trains having a platform alteration.

Not sure there were actually quite that many departures (or indeed platform changes) from / at East Croydon in the two hour period being discussed last Sunday.

 

[Surreytraveller]

A quick look at Sunday morning at East Croydon suggests that quite a few of the platform changes were possibly only from platform 5 to the immediately adjacent platform 6 (or vice-versa).

A handful though (= low single digit numbers), were indeed from platform 4 over to platforms 1 or 2 (or vice-versa), which would be particularly irksome if announced at the last minute and you're stood already waiting on the "wrong" platform.

There's a set of points out of action at South Croydon which would explain platform alterations between 5 & 6 at East Croydon

 

[avid2424]

Set of points out of action rather than a failure earlier that morning would suggest the railways would have known far in advance that platforms alterations would needed. The red platform alterations showing on Real Time Trains suggests that the railways could not be bothered to communicate changes. And that the only way that customers or passengers would find out is when the tannoy announcements were triggered by trains passing on different tracks on approach to East Croydon. Or what have I misunderstood

 

[Class15]

Set of points out of action rather than a failure earlier that morning would suggest the railways would have known far in advance that platforms alterations would needed. The red platform alterations showing on Real Time Trains suggests that the railways could not be bothered to communicate changes. And that the only way that customers or passengers would find out is when the tannoy announcements were triggered by trains passing on different tracks on approach to East Croydon. Or what have I misunderstood

The platforms are kept the same in the WTT, but may be altered on the platform screens long before they get altered on “RealTime Trains”. They won’t be changed last-minute to a completely different part of the station. The station staff will know and the boards will show it long in advance.

 

[The exile]

Last minute corrections or platform alterations seem to be more common round here (Bristol area) than they used to be - is this a feature of computer control - the computer doesn’t “need” to make a decision until the last minute - whereas a human thinks ahead and realised passengers need to move. The number of times two trains arriving in Bath from the East are shown in the wrong order until the first is almost in the station, whereas in reality, once it is past Bathampton the order is set in stone. No platform alterations to worry about here but a last minute correction never looks good.

 

[Taunton]

I have been at East Croydon at times of disorganisation, and found the best approach was to stand on the new north end footbridge and eyeball the incoming Down trains for where they were going, because the information systems at such times, as described, appear unable to keep up. A good number of others were doing the same.

Particularly challenging as I was travelling to Redhill and needed to be doubly sure the train, whatever its destination, was going via there and not down the Quarry Line

 

[louis97]

Last minute corrections or platform alterations seem to be more common round here (Bristol area) than they used to be - is this a feature of computer control - the computer doesn’t “need” to make a decision until the last minute - whereas a human thinks ahead and realised passengers need to move. The number of times two trains arriving in Bath from the East are shown in the wrong order until the first is almost in the station, whereas in reality, once it is past Bathampton the order is set in stone. No platform alterations to worry about here but a last minute correction never looks good.

ARS, automatic route setting, (the computer) will only route based on the booked path. So any change away from the booked path has required human intervention of some sort. What I suspect is happening is that with a computer doing the 'day to day' work it can be easy to miss something that is a problem until it presents itself at the last minute.

Unfortunately with ARS doing a good chunk of the day to day work, this in some areas has resulted in bigger areas of control for one signaller, therefore the signaller cannot always watch what ARS is doing on every inch of their workstation at every moment. Sometimes it can be easy to spot signallers who have a bit more of a grasp of how ARS works and ensure it does not give them (or the staff and passengers on the ground) a headache.

 

[Horizon22]

Set of points out of action rather than a failure earlier that morning would suggest the railways would have known far in advance that platforms alterations would needed. The red platform alterations showing on Real Time Trains suggests that the railways could not be bothered to communicate changes. And that the only way that customers or passengers would find out is when the tannoy announcements were triggered by trains passing on different tracks on approach to East Croydon. Or what have I misunderstood

They may have well known they were needed, but not exactly what the alternative platform would be.

 

[800001]

A busy station like East Croydon is it not a case a train could be ever so slightly late leaving platform, next train is approaching from behind, free adjacent platform, get it switched to that so train stays in time and then it becomes a domino effect?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

A busy station like East Croydon is it not a case a train could be ever so slightly late leaving platform, next train is approaching from behind, free adjacent platform, get it switched to that so train stays in time and then it becomes a domino effect?

Although swapping a platform last minute then having to wait for the passengers to cross via the bridge or lifts (if it isn’t just the opposite side of the island) can actually cause more delays and a domino effect than just waiting for a booked platform.

I remember once watching a Cardiff train waiting 10-15 minutes at Southampton Central after a last minute platform alteration required it to wait for several passenger assists to be moved across via the very slow lifts there.