Transdev Blazefield

[SCH117X]

Thirteen of the Harrogate fleet are 17 years old or older so probably more likely to be disposed of by the time the electrics arrive; B7RLEs 1701-1705,1712 & 1713, Gemini's 2404 & 3614, and Presidents 2705,2719, 2720 & 2722.

 

[Leeds1970]

I wonder given the current driver shortage and reliability issues affecting the Coastliner fleet if they'll be running the summer 'express' services again? Think it's safe to say that last years summer timetable was somewhat disastrous with breakdowns and missing journeys.

as far as I am aware , from Leeds to the coast there will be no change to the current timetable - there are rumblings of 1 return fast from York but given the current situation I doubt this will materialise

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

I've had a thought that wouldn't all Coastliners be better running express to York, then a separate route running Leeds to York via Seacroft, Tadcaster and what not? Even if the latter is only single decked. I imagine holidays makers going to Scarborough or Whitby for the first time by bus find going through Tadcaster a bit tedious.

 

[Delenn]

I wonder given the current driver shortage and reliability issues affecting the Coastliner fleet if they'll be running the summer 'express' services again? Think it's safe to say that last years summer timetable was somewhat disastrous with breakdowns and missing journeys.

Oh last summer's timetable was a nightmare for anyone on the 840. Hopefully, they learned their lesson and won't try it again.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

You sound quite defensive. Sorry to disappoint you, but my information is not based on any sort of unfounded bias or because I "love to stick the boot in".

Actual inside knowledge from a tendering authority that deals with multiple operators across its extensive territory.

Hmm, sounds like metro to me

Not sure how they’d know Transdevs (or any other operators) staff turnover, it’s not exactly relevant to them

Has anyone sighted 2779 which was the Witchway B9 that was involved in the heavy collision with the Range Rover a couple of years back on the X43? Some sources are saying it’s at York now, this is apparently destined for Coastliner once (if) it’s repaired.

Also with a large % of the Harrogate fleet set to be replaced by electrics, has anyone got any thoughts on potential cascades of vehicles that might take place within the various Transdev brands?

well the ESU vehicles are said to be earmarked for Blackburn, replacing the remaining B10s as they’re the first to be on the electrics list. The ExMainline fleet could do well anywhere tbf, though the other 6 are already at Blackburn (not that that particularly matters) and I wouldn’t know what sort of shape the B5s are mechanically to say they’re worth cascading at all, I know the Coastliner ones will likely be completely withdrawn when the route comes for renewal.

It’d be interesting to see how much of the ex tiger fleet (refurbs or not) are remaining when the 7 goes electric, as they could be a key contender for their eclipses

 

[Goldfish62]

Hmm, sounds like metro to me

Not sure how they’d know Transdevs (or any other operators) staff turnover, it’s not exactly relevant to them

Who mentioned anything about staff turnover?

All you have to do is compare mileage operated on tendered services. It's not exactly rocket science. Well, it's not to us who have been in the industry for many years.

 

[SCH117X]

The problems at the end of last week at Harrogate would be partly be down to the Flower Show Shuttle service they were running .

 

[LucyP]

@SCH117X said:
The problems at the end of last week at Harrogate would be partly be down to the Flower Show Shuttle service they were running .

And also down to the ridiculous amount of road-works that Harrogate has at the moment. At one stage there were simultaneous road-works on Leeds Road, Knaresborough Road, Otley Road and Wetherby Road. The latter being the worst.

On 19th April, I boarded the 16:45 departure from the bus station to Wetherby outside the hospital. My ticket was issued at 17:22. You could walk from the bus station to the hospital twice, in that time. It took 10 minutes to get from the hospital to the traffic lights at Woodlands Corner. Again you could walk it far less time. It then took a further 15 minutes to get to the Mini garage. Again you could walk that distance twice, in less time.

It then took only 8 minutes to get from the Mini garage to Wetherby.

The whole journey normally takes 20 minutes or less.

 

[Swimbar]

The problems at the end of last week at Harrogate would be partly be down to the Flower Show Shuttle service they were running .

Would make more sense to not to take on extra work if you do not have the staff to cover it without cancelling services elsewhere!

 

[SCH117X]

Would make more sense to not to take on extra work if you do not have the staff to cover it without cancelling services elsewhere!

Depends on exactly when the agreement to operate the service was set up. Could have been a number of years ago that they would operate the service annually. The fact that it includes Sunday operation means they are the only local operator available.

 

[Swimbar]

Depends on exactly when the agreement to operate the service was set up. Could have been a number of years ago that they would operate the service annually. The fact that it includes Sunday operation means they are the only local operator available.

York Pullman/Wrays of Harrogate do extensive work in Harrogate for exhibitions etc.

 

[RustySpoons]

Depends on exactly when the agreement to operate the service was set up. Could have been a number of years ago that they would operate the service annually. The fact that it includes Sunday operation means they are the only local operator available.

I don't think it'd be worthwhile for any other operator to even bid for the Flower Show work, considering it's only up the road from the depot and the shuttle doesn't really run that far from the town centre any other operator would have to run at a substantial loss to undercut Transdev.

That being said, in years gone by they've used buses/drivers from other depots.

 

[GNERman]

In regards to Zap, I’ve heard some rather nasty rumours about it and that the writing’s on the wall. Extremely concerning given the massive fleet investment. I know they’re putting focus on Coastliner and that’s understandable with it covering more area, but for the same reason, I can see how that can be damaging to zap, let’s hope it doesn’t join its MCR sister in the history books…

The Zap's an interesting one. I've never really understood who their target market was.

Assuming that they were aiming to attract people from rail; it was never going to be able to compete on speed / journey time or on frequency. Initially it maybe was able to compete on cost, but it's now £12 return which is only 50p cheaper than the cheapest rail return fare (off peak Northern only return). I'd also say it no longer competes on service quality given all the rail stock used on Leeds-York is fairly decent.

I assume Zap does well with ENCTS pass holders. I travel pre-0930, and the 0740, 0820 and 0855 off Leeds were / are never that busy. Probably average between the 10 and 20 mark per journey. Quite a lot of that seems to be students travelling from Leeds to York College.

The timetable decrease is certainly concerning, and whilst I like the service - I worry that the current numbers can't justifying a service in the long-term unfortunately.

 

[158756]

I’m not sure about Rosso but Lancashire seems to be doing quite well in regards to routes running as expected. I have seen the odd cancellation on the bus station screens but aside from that, all my journeys within the past 6+ months have been unaffected. Wonder why Yorkshire seems to be struggling so much in comparison

Rosso looks like the worst of the lot this week at least. Blackburn this afternoon had no cancellations at all on the webpage. A lot of the cancellations in Burnley seem to be on the tendered services - registered with Rosso. Rosso in Greater Manchester looks like a bit of a disaster at the moment. (For example, cancellations right now include the entire evening service on the R1,R7,R8,R9,R10 and 480, and two thirds of journeys on the 467/468). Rossendale seems immune from the cancellations that I've seen, wonder if that's just the driver shortage being worse at Rochdale or if there are commercial or political considerations at play.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Who mentioned anything about staff turnover?

All you have to do is compare mileage operated on tendered services. It's not exactly rocket science. Well, it's not to us who have been in the industry for many years.

Mileage and staff turnover/retention have no correlation. So to say that is inside knowledge that they aren’t doing well for retention is a load of rubbish

The Zap's an interesting one. I've never really understood who their target market was.

Assuming that they were aiming to attract people from rail; it was never going to be able to compete on speed / journey time or on frequency. Initially it maybe was able to compete on cost, but it's now £12 return which is only 50p cheaper than the cheapest rail return fare (off peak Northern only return). I'd also say it no longer competes on service quality given all the rail stock used on Leeds-York is fairly decent.

I assume Zap does well with ENCTS pass holders. I travel pre-0930, and the 0740, 0820 and 0855 off Leeds were / are never that busy. Probably average between the 10 and 20 mark per journey. Quite a lot of that seems to be students travelling from Leeds to York College.

The timetable decrease is certainly concerning, and whilst I like the service - I worry that the current numbers can't justifying a service in the long-term unfortunately.

It is worrying, the importance of success is more important than ever with the level of vehicle costs they have now, whereas the B7s were paid for and just had the standard fuel and maintenance costs without worrying about a lease to pay.

Rosso looks like the worst of the lot this week at least. Blackburn this afternoon had no cancellations at all on the webpage. A lot of the cancellations in Burnley seem to be on the tendered services - registered with Rosso. Rosso in Greater Manchester looks like a bit of a disaster at the moment. (For example, cancellations right now include the entire evening service on the R1,R7,R8,R9,R10 and 480, and two thirds of journeys on the 467/468). Rossendale seems immune from the cancellations that I've seen, wonder if that's just the driver shortage being worse at Rochdale or if there are commercial or political considerations at play.

I wonder if the areas that are struggling most are those that have more competition. Blackburn and Burnley don’t really have many other large bus operators around whereas greater Manchester and Yorkshire have such a large variety, with go ahead, Arriva, stagecoach, and first all crammed into the same territories. Obviously if you live in a town with only one big operator, the choice is simple.

 

[northern506]

Mileage and staff turnover/retention have no correlation. So to say that is inside knowledge that they aren’t doing well for retention is a load of rubbish


It is worrying, the importance of success is more important than ever with the level of vehicle costs they have now, whereas the B7s were paid for and just had the standard fuel and maintenance costs without worrying about a lease to pay.


I wonder if the areas that are struggling most are those that have more competition. Blackburn and Burnley don’t really have many other large bus operators around whereas greater Manchester and Yorkshire have such a large variety, with go ahead, Arriva, stagecoach, and first all crammed into the same territories. Obviously if you live in a town with only one big operator, the choice is simple.

There’s a clear link between staff turnover and mileage - if you have high turnover of staff, mileage of going to be lower.

As an observation though, those cancellations from Rosso today in the GM area are an absolute disgrace, there’s no other way around it. Multiple services with no evening service at all can’t be consider acceptable surely?

If they don’t have enough drivers, they shouldn’t have took on more TFGM contracts.

 

[M60lad]

I have to agree here that Rosso shouldn't have took on as many TfGM tenders that they have done considering the current driver shortage at Rosso and it was only going to be a matter of time before they started cancelling some of these, I'm sure TfGM will be keeping a close eye on how often this happens and I can't honestly see TfGM being happy if virtually all their evening/late tenders weren't being operated.

 

[Andyh82]

The tenders will be for a number of year though, so if they skipped bidding for them now, they’d not be able to expand their business until 2027 by which time the driver shortage should be a distant memory

 

[RustySpoons]

The tenders will be for a number of year though, so if they skipped bidding for them now, they’d not be able to expand their business until 2027 by which time the driver shortage should be a distant memory

They'll not be able to expand their business anyway if they don't have enough drivers, carry on cancelling services and TfGM retender the routes because Rosso clearly can't run them. Cancelling services where there's no alternative is unacceptable, and although offering to pay the taxi fare for inconvenienced customers is admirable, it still isn't good enough.

Similar situation with Burnley's (sorry, Rosso...) Ribble Country services. Quite often the last service of various routes doesn't run with no warning on twitter, website, app, etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

Mileage and staff turnover/retention have no correlation. So to say that is inside knowledge that they aren’t doing well for retention is a load of rubbish

Don't tell me you're being serious when you come out with such blatant nonsense. How can you seriously say that staffing has no correlation with mileage operated?

I have to agree here that Rosso shouldn't have took on as many TfGM tenders that they have done considering the current driver shortage at Rosso and it was only going to be a matter of time before they started cancelling some of these, I'm sure TfGM will be keeping a close eye on how often this happens and I can't honestly see TfGM being happy if virtually all their evening/late tenders weren't being operated.

TfGM are doing a lot more than just keeping an eye on things.. The situation is completely unsatisfactory.

I wonder if the areas that are struggling most are those that have more competition. Blackburn and Burnley don’t really have many other large bus operators around whereas greater Manchester and Yorkshire have such a large variety, with go ahead, Arriva, stagecoach, and first all crammed into the same territories. Obviously if you live in a town with only one big operator, the choice is simple.

Undoubtedly the case. However, what is apparent is that while all operators have been struggling to an extent, Rosso has been suffering more than most in the area. That would appear to say something about the attractiveness of working for the respective operators.

 

[northern506]

The tenders will be for a number of year though, so if they skipped bidding for them now, they’d not be able to expand their business until 2027 by which time the driver shortage should be a distant memory

Aren’t TFGM contracts only 1 year, or has that changed?

 

[Andyh82]

I’m guessing there is a lot more driving jobs available in Rochdale, with neighbouring bus companies and all the distribution warehouses alongside the M62

Aren’t hourly rates lower at Rosso as well? We all know from the rail side of this forum how hard it is to align terms and conditions. They’d either end up with Rosso staff going on strike, or Burnley/Blackburn staff going on strike.

Are First Oldham and Diamond North West fully staffed and running with no issues?

 

[Goldfish62]

I’m guessing there is a lot more driving jobs available in Rochdale, with neighbouring bus companies and all the distribution warehouses alongside the M62

Aren’t hourly rates lower at Rosso as well? We all know from the rail side of this forum how hard it is to align terms and conditions. They’d either end up with Rosso staff going on strike, or Burnley/Blackburn staff going on strike.

Are First Oldham and Diamond North West fully staffed and running with no issues?

I don't think anyone would suggest that Diamond and First (or Go North West) are running without any issues, but they don't seem to be having the meltdown that Rosso currently is.

In respect of pay, Diamond NW, GNW and First Oldham hourly rates are all more than Rosso, and Rosso has only recently increased to £12ph.

 

[RustySpoons]

Just from this afternoon in Burnley the following journeys aren't running...

https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/burnley/service-updates

Mainline M1
Burnley to Accrington 4.18pm 6.18pm
Accrington to Burnley 5.20pm 9.11pm

M2
Burnley to Padiham 3.03pm 4.30pm 7.43pm
Padiham to Burnley 3.26pm 4.53pm
Burnley to Clitheroe 5.58pm
Clitheroe to Burnley 6.54pm

M3
Burnley to Trawden 2.47pm 3.47pm 4.53pm
Trawden to Burnley 3.50pm 4.50pm 5.55pm

M4
Burnley to Keighley 4.15pm
Keighley to Burnley 6.13pm

M5
Burnley to Barnoldswick 3.57pm
Barnoldswick to Burnley 5.27pm

1
Burnley to Stoops 6pm 7.20pm
Stoops to Burnley 6.16pm 7.35pm


2
Burnley to Higherford 3pm
Higherford to Burnley 3.48pm

4
Ribble Clitheroe – Clitheroe 2.25pm

15
Rosehill circular 5.55pm

64
Burnley to Clitheroe 4.05pm 5.15pm
Clitheroe to Burnley 5.15pm 6.20pm

3
Burnley to Pike Hill 7.55pm
Pike Hill to Burnley 8pm

4
Burnley to Worsthorne 6.37pm
Worsthorne to Burnley 6.53pm

5
Burnley to Harle Skye 7.13pm
Harle Skye to Burnley 7.30pm

67
Clitheroe to Burnley 2.48pm

Witchway X43
Burnley to Manchester 3.43pm 4.05pm 4.55pm
Manchester to Burnley 5.15pm 5.45pm 6.30pm

Whizz
Burnley to Skipton 5.45pm
Skipton to Burnley 7pm

Ignoring their misspelling of their own brand (Wizz) that's the last bus on all the local services out of town that isn't running. Not good.

If you think that's bad, Rosso is a complete disaster.

https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/rosso/service-updates

Friday 29th April

R1
Rochdale to Methodist 2.43pm
Methodist to Rochdale 4.55pm

R2
Rochdale to Bury 11.12am 3.12pm
Bury to Rochdale 12.28pm 4.25pm

R3
Rochdale to Wallbank 5.10pm, 6.10pm
Wallbank to Rochdale 5.37pm, 6.37pm

R4
Rochdale to Ladyhouse 1.50pm 3.55pm
Ladyhouse to Rochdale 12.14pm 4.19pm

R5
Rochdale to Littleborough 9.10am
Littleborough to Rochdale 9.42am

R6
Rochdale Circular 2.30pm 3.30pm

R7
Rochdale to Middleton 5.05pm 6.10pm
Middleton to Rochdale 6.15pm 7.10pm

R8
Rochdale to Edenfield Road 10.20am
Edenfield Road to Rochdale 10.41am

R9
Rochdale Circular 3.30pm 4.35pm, 5.35pm, 6.35pm, 7.05pm, 8.05pm, 9.05pm, 10.05pm

R10
Rochdale Circular 5.05pm, 6.05pm, 7.05pm, 7.35pm, 8.35pm, 9.35pm, 10.35pm

B1
Bury to Fir Street 1.20pm
Fir Street to Bury 1.58pm

B2
Bury to Nangreaves 5.24pm, 6.29pm, 9.10pm
Nangreaves to Bury 4.49pm, 5.49pm, 6.54pm, 9.30pm

B4
Bury to Heywood 4.51pm, 8.03pm, 10.03pm
Heywood to Bury 5.23pm, 8.34pm, 10.34

11
Haslingden to Rawtenstall 10.43am
Rawtenstall to Haslingden 10.30am

12
Rawtenstall to Balladen 10.10am

Lakeline 457
Rochdale to Littleborough 11.23am
Littleborough to Rochdale 11.40am

Lakeline 458
Rochdale to Littleborough 1.33pm, 4.38pm, 5.08pm, 6pm
Littleborough to Rochdale 2.05pm, 5.15pm, 5.48pm, 6.32pm.

Trax 467/468
Bury to Rochdale 1.25pm 4.05pm, 6.45pm, 7.25pm, 7.45pm, 8.45pm, 9.15pm, 10.15pm, 10.45pm, 11.45pm
Rochdale to Bury 12.34pm 3.14pm, 5.54pm, 6.40pm, 7.06pm, 8.06pm, 9.40pm, 11.06pm

Tottington Line 469
Bury to Tottington 4.16pm, 4.46pm, 5.16pm, 5.46pm, 6.16pm, 6.46pm, 7.16pm
Tottington to Bury 4.30pm, 5pm, 5.28pm, 5.58pm, 6.28pm, 6.58pm, 7.28pm

480
Bury to Bolton 4.25pm, 7.23pm, 9.23pm, 11.23pm
Bolton to Bury 5.25pm, 8.20pm, 10.20pm

The advantage of posting the service cancellations to their website rather than Twitter is that by tomorrow they can delete them all and no one will be any the wiser, aside from the poor passengers left stranded.

Completely understand there's a driver shortage, but if you're struggling for drivers why take on all the extra work.

 

[northernchris]

Things don't look good in Lancashire, and cancelling last buses (which seems quite early for town routes!) is far from ideal. If a contracted service doesn't run then presumably the operator is fined, to prevent bus companies from bidding for work they know they can't resource.

 

[markymark2000]

Things don't look good in Lancashire, and cancelling last buses (which seems quite early for town routes!) is far from ideal. If a contracted service doesn't run then presumably the operator is fined, to prevent bus companies from bidding for work they know they can't resource.

It depends on the council area. That is what should happen, fined and a strike against future bids but in reality, often it's just a slap on the wrist and the cost for the relevant journey dedicated from council payments.

 

[RustySpoons]

Things don't look good in Lancashire, and cancelling last buses (which seems quite early for town routes!) is far from ideal. If a contracted service doesn't run then presumably the operator is fined, to prevent bus companies from bidding for work they know they can't resource.

Evening services on the town routes in Burnley and Blackburn are practically none existent at the best of times, even worse at the moment when they're regularly cancelled.

I suppose in 'normal' times a short duty of a frequent service would be cancelled and the driver used to cover one of the tendered services, though with frequent services already running at reduced frequencies that's not possible. Plus with the current pay differences between Burnley/Blackburn/Rosso staff it could open up a whole new can of worms... Things are a mess.

 

[northernchris]

It depends on the council area. That is what should happen, fined and a strike against future bids but in reality, often it's just a slap on the wrist and the cost for the relevant journey dedicated from council payments.

Not an ideal setup, although you would hope TfGM are monitoring things more closely than they would usually.

Evening services on the town routes in Burnley and Blackburn are practically none existent at the best of times, even worse at the moment when they're regularly cancelled.

I suppose in 'normal' times a short duty of a frequent service would be cancelled and the driver used to cover one of the tendered services, though with frequent services already running at reduced frequencies that's not possible. Plus with the current pay differences between Burnley/Blackburn/Rosso staff it could open up a whole new can of worms... Things are a mess.

I hadn't realised local services were so infrequent in Lancashire, guess there's no funding from the council?

I've noticed with Keighley there's certain journeys that are the first to be cancelled should there be a shortage, which helps to reduce uncertainty although can imagine it's highly frustrating if it's your regular journey which is the first to be pulled. It also means the 662 is the favoured route still to suffer the cancellations, so whilst this time last year the frequency was every 10 minutes it's now very common for gaps of 30-45 minutes to occur.

 

[Andyh82]

TfGM have posted signs at the bus stops in the Interchange warning of possible cancellations on Rosso services, and there is/was also a big banner on the TfGM homepage saying the same, so they are clearly aware and the suggestion Transdev are not letting them know is incorrect

 

[M803UYA]

Not an ideal setup, although you would hope TfGM are monitoring things more closely than they would usually.

It'd be strange if TfGM weren't monitoring the situation. They don't come across as an organisation that tolerates non compliant operation of their contracted services. It'll be costing Transdev in penalties for not operating properly.