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Transdev Blazefield

Flange Squeal

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17 Jul 2012
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1,283
As has been said, many operators run vehicles older than 18 years of age for schools. Firstly, they're fully depreciated, and simply are not worked as hard as regular vehicles. Think about it. They work 180 days a year, and even then, their working day is about 4 hours. Compare that to a regular service vehicle doing 12 hour days (or more) over 300+ days a year. They literally do about 20% of the work of a normal vehicle and as long as they are maintained, there's no issue using older vehicles on schools.
Quite. And even if you compare older vehicles with newer vehicles, an operator I do casual work for has some 20+ year old motors and some more modern vehicles, all in use on schools. Operated on the same routes and maintained by the same people, but the 20+ year old vehicles generally go about their business with little fuss, while the newer buses like to throw up electrical/sensor issues and other such gremlins on a semi-regular basis. The older vehicles are therefore actually costing less to maintain and providing better uptime than the newer ones!
 
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RailUK Forums

Lynford1976

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134
In your opinion?

You're entitled to your opinion.
I disagree with it. I'll explain why.

There's nothing wrong in operating an older vehicle on low mileage work 39 weeks a year. Provided you maintain it properly. Between 21/35 days buses and coaches receive an inspection in a workshop. That inspection covers every item that's tested on the annual MOT. The minimum period for safety inspections a traffic commissioner accepts is 6 weeks (around 35 days). So, between every 21 to 35 days a bus/coach receives a safety inspection to MOT standard. Should anything be found then the vehicle has that issue resolved before it's returned to service.

I see very few bus/coach operators called up for failing to maintain their vehicles to a roadworthy standard. So, we can assume from that either the industry regulator isn't very good at their job, the operators are extremely clever at avoiding detection, or more simply there's not many instances where vehicles are in operation that are 'unsafe'. You can be spot checked anytime by a DVSA examiner, by the local traffic police. A lot of vehicles get spot checked. I've been spot checked in my bus on my school run. Often. I'm not surprised at that - I'm driving school children in a bus. We wouldn't want to be operating an unsafe vehicle. I wouldn't want to go out in one. Nothing's ever been found on a vehicle I've driven. Perhaps I'm fortunate?

Transdev Blazefield happen to work for the same local authority as my current employer. They have a lot of school buses, so do a lot of work for that authority and the one next door. And continue to do so. They have their own inspectors who will spot check vehicles used on their contracts. Randomly - that way we're not going to know they're coming. Should anything be found they don't accept as part of their contract terms, that vehicle is off the contract. Potentially, so would be the operator! Whilst Transdev Blazefield might have their 'issues' running dodgy old buses isn't on that list of issues. I could point out that the 2015/7 Wright bodied Volvo B5TLs which work the Coastliner and the 36 are the ones which are getting into midlife and having constant engine issues. No surprise as it's a small engine mated to a big turbo to generate the power needed. See also Wright Streetlite/Streetdeck. Small engine overworking, and failing quicker. I don't like Streetlites, might have mentioned that elsewhere.

The likes of Johnson Bros in Worksop run a very nice fleet of coaches. Some are quite expensive and modern. Alongside that they operate a number of double deckers on school contracts. Around 14 years ago they decided to replace their Bristol VR school buses (newest of which would have been 27/8 years old and becoming hard to get spare parts for) with Olympians. Leyland Olympians not Volvos - the latter are infamous for their use of recycled steel, so the rot is present at build. They've had shorter working lives than their Leyland parents have because of this.

Whilst Johnsons have leapt into the low floor revolution with lots of mid 2000s Scania Omnidekkas from Nottingham there still remains a lot of Leyland Olympians on the fleet, working contracts. I think the newest of those would be L registered and last off the production line in mid 1993. They have been owned since 16 years of age. They've had as long out of the vehicles as their age when purchased.

A horrible 'old' bus.... but one that works 39 weeks a year, twice a day and is properly maintained in their fairly substantial workshop facilities. I haven't heard of Johnsons visiting the traffic commissioners for poor maintenance practices, so can only assume they must be properly looking after their fleet. I've never seen an untidy one on my travels. If you operate old vehicles, you're going to get attention from DVSA, so obviously you properly maintain the buses because you know they're getting stopped.

A lot of coach operators have front line vehicles (like bus firms) and then a pool of older ones which work school contracts. They can be between 10-15+ years old. They're doing fairly low mileages and could be sent out on a nice private hire job if needs be when things become hectic.

So, age isn't the issue. The real issue is how those vehicles are maintained. Maintain them properly and they'll run for a very long time. You can have a badly maintained 7 year old bus/coach that's going to be in the scrapyard a lot sooner and you can have a vehicle of that age in dire need of an external repaint, seats needing retrimming. The customer doesn't like a shabby vehicle. They want something comfortable, reliable and which will turn up when the timetable says it will.

That could be a 20 year old Wright bodied Volvo for all they care. I'm going to stop jumping up and down now as the mods will end up chopping this post if I keep going....
This post deserves an award. Thank you, @M803UYA!
 

Swimbar

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31 Jan 2018
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378
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Wetherby
The age of the vehicles debate does little to appease the travelling public who have 27 cancelled journeys on the 36 so far today as well as some on Harrogate Locals.
 

RustySpoons

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Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
777
The age of the vehicles debate does little to appease the travelling public who have 27 cancelled journeys on the 36 so far today as well as some on Harrogate Locals.
It's very disappointing that the cancellation numbers have shot up again. Things seemed to be going in the right direction not all that long ago with cancellations being in single figures.

Re. the vehicle age debate, up until very recently there were 20+ year old Volvo B10s running around Burnley. Despite looking tired internally they were still providing very comfortable reliable service. I believe there are still some B10s of equal vintage operating daily in and around Blackburn. Despite poor fuel economy they owe the company nothing, so it's likely that parts availability is the main reason they've been withdrawn.
 

SCH117X

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27 Nov 2015
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1,580
The age of the vehicles debate does little to appease the travelling public who have 27 cancelled journeys on the 36 so far today as well as some on Harrogate Locals.
All week they have had vehicles fail on the 36 - currently unserviceable appear to be three of the dedicated Gemini 3s (one obvious from the South Stainley crash) along with one of the fleet liveried Gemini 2s; of the other three Gemini 2s one is in the 24 and the other on the 59 which further reduces the available buses for the 36. Two Gemini 3s today have made it from Ripon to Harrogate but then not worked since so that might be driver issues rather than mechanical. One Gemini 3 completed its duities yesterday but has not been used today - possibly pulled for routine maintenance, they seem to do one a day at least. So currently only 10 of the 16 Gemini 3s are in service supported by a solitary Gemini 2.

The local cancellations appear to be a single Route 1 rosta.
 

M803UYA

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24 May 2020
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Under my stone....
Re. the vehicle age debate, up until very recently there were 20+ year old Volvo B10s running around Burnley. Despite looking tired internally they were still providing very comfortable reliable service. I believe there are still some B10s of equal vintage operating daily in and around Blackburn. Despite poor fuel economy they owe the company nothing, so it's likely that parts availability is the main reason they've been withdrawn.
Volvos of that age used recycled steel for their chassis. So if there were corrosion issues on those chassis, that wouldn't come as a surprise. This and possible parts supply issues?
 

RustySpoons

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5 Apr 2019
Messages
777
Volvos of that age used recycled steel for their chassis. So if there were corrosion issues on those chassis, that wouldn't come as a surprise. This and possible parts supply issues?
Good shout, I do recall one or two having to be withdrawn early due to chassis corrosion.
 

Ken H

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11 Nov 2018
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Location
N Yorks
Story in the grauniad yesterday saying EV vehicles costing a lot to insure. I dont know if that will affect buses and the economics of running them.

‘The quotes were £5,000 or more’: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs
Drivers who ditched petrol and diesel to help save the planet face huge price rises in premiums

Zoe Wood
Zoe Wood
@zoewoodguardian
Sat 30 Sep 2023 10.00 BST
Driving an electric car should be a win-win, saving money and the planet. So David* was shocked when the insurance on his Tesla Model Y came up for renewal, and Aviva refused to cover him again, while several other brands turned him away.

When David did secure a new deal, the annual cost rocketed from £1,200 to more than £5,000.

“My insurer was Aviva from July 2022 to July 2023, but when it was coming up for renewal, I received a letter stating that they would not be covering the Tesla Model Y any more,” David says. “I am a member of a Tesla UK owners forum, and lots of other people seem to be having the same issue.”

In the Facebook group, members share stories of horror renewal quotes, with increases ranging from 60% (up to £1,100) to a staggering 940% (a jump from £447 to £4,661, according to a screengrab shared by one driver).

“I spent weeks on every comparison site as well as trying individual insurers and specialist brokers, but either they wouldn’t cover the car or the quotes were £5,000 or more,” says David, whose only change in circumstance was three points on a licence.

Privilege, Vitality, Axa and the specialist broker Adrian Flux were among the brands he found were “unable to insure him at this time” before he nailed down a policy with Direct Line, albeit at a price.
 

Goldfish62

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14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,149
Story in the grauniad yesterday saying EV vehicles costing a lot to insure. I dont know if that will affect buses and the economics of running them.
Insurance costs are soaring for all buses, not just electrics. However, it's still a very small proportion of total ownership costs compared with a private car
 

SCH117X

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27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,580
Roadworks in Harrogate are leading to the 3, 24 and 36 (from Ripon) being diverted around the back of the confernce centre to then follow the route of the 2 to the bus station. The 3 and today both the 24 and 36 (to Ripon) are also using the 2 route to the conference centre then around the back to access the Ripon road. Theres a tight bend on that road round the back (Springfield Avenue) with appropraite giving way needed - the 3 I was on allowing a 36 right of way.
 

JetBlast

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Australia
I imagined there would be some fleet swaps or attempting to sell the depot or something. Are the stuff going to TUPE to First?
 

Ken H

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The Saturday only Harrogate Bus Company 59 from Harrogate to Skipton & return bus is running a revised timetable because of roadworks on the A59 at Kex Gill.
 

Leedsbusman

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9 May 2021
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Layton
I imagined there would be some fleet swaps or attempting to sell the depot or something. Are the stuff going to TUPE to First?
Why would there be fleet swaps when the operation continues to March?

TUPE will apply, some work moves to First and some to Stagecoach. That said I hear that First are renting the depot from Rosso and moving their schools and contracts from Oldham in.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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18 Feb 2013
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Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I imagined there would be some fleet swaps or attempting to sell the depot or something. Are the stuff going to TUPE to First?
It's way, way too early to see any change "on the ground" as it were. TUPE consultation will be done later this year, in line with the 90 day minimum. As regards fleet etc, depends what First's plans are. Buying new, internal cascades or a purchase? No rush at the moment
 

Simon75

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25 May 2016
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Why would there be fleet swaps when the operation continues to March?

TUPE will apply, some work moves to First and some to Stagecoach. That said I hear that First are renting the depot from Rosso and moving their schools and contracts from Oldham in.
I thought TFGM were owing depots, not the company running services,?
 

Bungle965

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Blackley and Broughton/ Walsall South
It's way, way too early to see any change "on the ground" as it were. TUPE consultation will be done later this year, in line with the 90 day minimum. As regards fleet etc, depends what First's plans are. Buying new, internal cascades or a purchase? No rush at the moment
They have already announced some of their plans fleet wise:
First Manchester Mellor Order
 

M60lad

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31 May 2011
Messages
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The Saturday only Harrogate Bus Company 59 from Harrogate to Skipton & return bus is running a revised timetable because of roadworks on the A59 at Kex Gill.

Does seem odd that they can't run the full Saturday timetable during these works, why have they decided to drop the service from 4 journeys a day to just 2? Is it due to a shortage of available vehicles or drivers that will prove a problem?
 

Geeves

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Rochdale
On the Bee Network Facebook it was posted that First are taking over the lease of the current yard in Rochdale which Rosso will vacate soon, and it will be Transdev/Rosso subleasing from First for the short term
 

SCH117X

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Does seem odd that they can't run the full Saturday timetable during these works, why have they decided to drop the service from 4 journeys a day to just 2? Is it due to a shortage of available vehicles or drivers that will prove a problem?
The service is funded by Dalesbus from whom additional funding would be neccessary as the service is now a 1hr 15 in each direction rather than just under 50 mins and would need 2 buses not 1 to operate it. The vehicle used yesterday, the 62 reg Gemini 2 3613 had a trip to Knaresborough on the 1A in between its 59 duties. Knaresborough was very slow along the High Street yesterday which was causing amounting delays on Route 1 which the use of 3613 helped to relieve.
 

Leedsbusman

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Layton
On the Bee Network Facebook it was posted that First are taking over the lease of the current yard in Rochdale which Rosso will vacate soon, and it will be Transdev/Rosso subleasing from First for the short term
I believe Rosso own the depot and are leasing to First from the changeover date.
 

Ken H

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The service is funded by Dalesbus from whom additional funding would be neccessary as the service is now a 1hr 15 in each direction rather than just under 50 mins and would need 2 buses not 1 to operate it. The vehicle used yesterday, the 62 reg Gemini 2 3613 had a trip to Knaresborough on the 1A in between its 59 duties. Knaresborough was very slow along the High Street yesterday which was causing amounting delays on Route 1 which the use of 3613 helped to relieve.
The route has its own facebook group
Link goes to facebook group for the Dalesbus 59 Harrogate - Skipton route. Content changes a lot
Does any other bus route?
 

Bristol LHS

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29 Sep 2020
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Yorkshire
The route has its own facebook group
Link goes to facebook group for the Dalesbus 59 Harrogate - Skipton route. Content changes a lot
Does any other bus route?

Go North East’s X9/X10 Tyne-Tees Express certainly used to have an informal Facebook group - a number of regular passengers used to meet up for drinks and celebrate each others’ birthdays, etc.
 

johntea

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They had one of these running this morning on a ‘1’ route in Harrogate

Guessing it must have been a trial unit as there was very little Transdev branding

The bus stop buttons are rather high up the poles and just seem to make a low key ‘buzz’ rather than a satisfying ‘ring’ sound!
 

SCH117X

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That demonstrator has been in use for a few months on and off. There was a story that it had been bought but that seems not to be the case. Given they have ordered a fleet of them, and now for Keighleys Shuttle, expect they are using it to get drivers use to them so they can have a smooth transistion from the B7BLEs etc.
 

Edvid

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More details on the Keighley eCitaro order:

We're announcing today that we have placed an order worth £7.5 million for 15 new electric buses to convert one of our most popular routes, The Shuttle linking Keighley and Bradford in West Yorkshire, to zero-emission operation.

The orders are supported by £3.1 million of funding from the Government’s Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) funding, following a successful bid by our partner, West Yorkshire Combined Authority.

Today’s order calls for 15 new Mercedes-Benz E-Citaro all electric single deck buses, and follows a separate order for 20 similar vehicles for use in the Leeds, Wetherby and Harrogate areas.

The new buses will be fully compliant with Bradford’s Clean Air Zone, after it became the first in Yorkshire to introduce the scheme in September 2022, covering all vehicles except private cars and motorcycles.

One year on, Bradford Council confirmed the city has recorded its lowest level of air pollution since records began, and our switch to electric power on one of the region’s most popular bus routes is expected to further improve air quality on some of the region’s busiest urban roads.

Our new vehicle order follows successful trials of several types of all-electric buses on the high-frequency Shuttle route, which operates up to every 15 minutes, as well as on our busy North Yorkshire route 1 linking Harrogate and Knaresborough.

As part of its vehicle trials, we invited our customers to rate key design features on each bus tested, with feedback incorporated into the specifications of the new buses now on order.

Our Managing Director Henri Rohard said: “We’re delighted to announce this significant order for 15 new electric buses which will deliver the best experience for our customers as well as helping to clear the air in Bradford, Saltaire, Bingley and Keighley.

“The project has been made possible thanks to the significant support from the Government’s ZEBRA fund, in addition to our introduction of 39 new electric buses in Harrogate and on routes serving Pateley Bridge, Wetherby and Leeds.

“Transdev is also directly investing £4.4 million in these new buses for our Shuttle route between Bradford and Keighley, representing almost 60 per cent of their total cost. The new buses are expected to be in service by the end of next year.

“Higher power output delivered by today’s new generation batteries means each bus can go further between charge-ups, while helping us to provide our customers with the reliable and punctual service they rightly expect from us.”

Today’s news is also being welcomed by West Yorkshire Combined Authority, which submitted a successful bid to Government for £24 million to support West Yorkshire’s three major bus operators, including Transdev, with the introduction of zero emission electric buses.

Chair of the West Yorkshire Combined Authority Transport Committee, Cllr Susan Hinchcliffe, said: “Bus travel is vital for people across West Yorkshire, but so is the need to safeguard our environment for future generations.

“Schemes like this will ultimately form part of a modern, greener public transport network, fit for the 21st century, and help encourage more people onto the bus.

“It will also help us tackle the climate emergency and achieve our target of becoming a carbon net-zero region by 2038.”

We will now work with Mercedes-Benz engineers to ensure its in-house engineering team at its Keighley depot, where our new buses will be based, have the training and upskilling needed to deliver the best performance from its new all-electric buses.
 

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