TransPennine Express North Route, New Timetable

[bbrez]

Is that really TPE? Or is it the lack of infrastructure that was supposed to be built to help accommodate the timetable changes?

 

[scarby]

Is that really TPE? Or is it the lack of infrastructure that was supposed to be built to help accommodate the timetable changes?

That may well be a factor. However, what I find very disappointing is the total lack of will displayed to tackle the problems, leaving the service in chaos for months. I don't buy the argument that nothing could be done - that is never the case. We all know that emergency timetables have been introduced on the railways down the years in circumstances such as bad weather, landslips, etc.

Associated with this has been TPE daily turning Scarborough-bound services at Malton, even if they are not dreadfully late (15-30 minutes), fully aware that this strands passengers at Malton until the next departure and also leaves departing passengers at Scarborough without a service.

 

[swissrailpassion]

I suggest a letter to the local MP.

 

[scarby]

Whose stone-brained idea is it to terminate Scarborough-bound services at Malton on a daily basis, which must cause huge problems for passengers?

Today the 09.35 was turned at Malton just 22 minutes late. Had it proceeded, given the generous 8 minutes allowed between Seamer and Scarborough, plus a scheduled 11 minute turnaround, that should have been reduceable to a 10-12 minute late departure from Scarborough for the 09.46.

That leaves passengers stranded at Malton to await the next Scarborough service (which of course is running 7 late) and effectively makes Scarborough departing passengers an hour late into their journey before they've even departed.

 

[30907]

Whose stone-brained idea is it to terminate Scarborough-bound services at Malton on a daily basis, which must cause huge problems for passengers?

Today the 09.35 was turned at Malton just 22 minutes late. Had it proceeded, given the generous 8 minutes allowed between Seamer and Scarborough, plus a scheduled 11 minute turnaround, that should have been reduceable to a 10-12 minute late departure from Scarborough for the 09.46.

That leaves passengers stranded at Malton to await the next Scarborough service (which of course is running 7 late) and effectively makes Scarborough departing passengers an hour late into their journey before they've even departed.

0935 is the arrival time at SCA presumably?

Particularly surprising as a couple of weeks ago TPE did exactly as you suggest with the train an hour later which was +27 off York rather than +19 as today, and the return working is hardly at peak commuting time.
Unless of course there was another problem we don't know about?

 

[greyman42]

1538 Scarborough to Liverpool terminated at York on Platform 2. It was only about 12L. Does anyone know why it was terminated?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

1538 Scarborough to Liverpool terminated at York on Platform 2. It was only about 12L. Does anyone know why it was terminated?

Congestion caused by earlier delays seems to be the official line.

 

[scarby]

0935 is the arrival time at SCA presumably?

Yes, 09.35 arrival. It's been cancelled again today, this time was 20 down at Malton. This is literally a daily occurence for at least one service and those that do make it to Scarborough are repeatedly late.

Can you imagine the uproar if LNER was terminating services at Berwick on a daily basis and telling passengers they can get the next service to Edinburgh in an hour? Yet this is exactly what TPE are doing.

 

[Boysteve]

Whose stone-brained idea is it to terminate Scarborough-bound services at Malton on a daily basis, which must cause huge problems for passengers?

The 09:35 into Scarborough is cancelled again today, and it is not transparent as to how these decisions are made. Sometimes running 20 minutes late will get turned at Malton, but then sometimes a 30 minute delay continues to the coast! I can only presume it is something to do with mandatory rest breaks for the crew who are working each service.
Looking at Monday to Thursday this week we have (18/day) 72 TPEx services scheduled to Scarborough;
37 arrived within 10 minutes of booked time (51%)
29 were 10 minutes late or more (40%)
6 were cancelled (8%)
*Yes I have rounded to the nearest whole % so it does not add up to 100 before some smart ass points it out. Thanks.

However if take out the services that originate at York (2/day scheduled plus there have been 3 occurrences resulting from disruption further West), then you have 61 services that should have made Scarborough;
26 arrived within 10 minutes of time (43%)
29 were 10 minutes late or more (47%)
6 were cancelled (10%)

The number of services curtailed at Malton has decreased compared with June/July, but I imagine the Coastliner bus services are doing a roaring trade!

 

[scarby]

I imagine the Coastliner bus services are doing a roaring trade!

The bus simply isn't a reasonable alternative to the train. It's timetabled to take 1hr 45 minutes from station to station, so one might as well hope that TPE don't cancel two successive services rather than use the bus.

The supposed benefits of the rail service include an hourly 50 minute journey to York and back, allowing one to have a leisurely day in York (or Scarborough) plus supposed swift connections to London, for example, with advertised journeys of as little as 3h 2min to the capital. One should be passing through Retford in the time it takes for the bus to reach York station.

 

[Ianigsy]

The bus simply isn't a reasonable alternative to the train. It's timetabled to take 1hr 45 minutes from station to station, so one might as well hope that TPE don't cancel two successive services rather than use the bus.

Yes, but conversely I would imagine many of the people using the 0946 from Scarborough (arriving York 1036) are probably leisure travellers and/or retired. In their position, if I arrived at Scarborough station at 9.30 or thereabouts to find the train cancelled, I'd probably get a coffee, take the 1010 Coastliner, sit on a nice warm bus and use my ENCTS pass to arrive at 1155 rather than take a chance on the 1046 (arriving 1136) running. If you want the shops in the centre of York, the time difference becomes negligible.

 

[scarby]

Yes, but conversely I would imagine many of the people using the 0946 from Scarborough (arriving York 1036) are probably leisure travellers and/or retired. In their position, if I arrived at Scarborough station at 9.30 or thereabouts to find the train cancelled, I'd probably get a coffee, take the 1010 Coastliner, sit on a nice warm bus and use my ENCTS pass to arrive at 1155 rather than take a chance on the 1046 (arriving 1136) running. If you want the shops in the centre of York, the time difference becomes negligible.

That’s fine for a retired person with time to spare. For the rest, leading busy lives and conducting business, it’s not.

The service as it stands pours shame on the rail industry. The trains should be reliable and run on time unless there are exceptional operational challenges such as severe weather.

 

[Boysteve]

The bus simply isn't a reasonable alternative to the train. It's timetabled to take 1hr 45 minutes from station to station, so one might as well hope that TPE don't cancel two successive services rather than use the bus.

Ha! Well today the 14:35 arrival into Scarborough was turned at Malton as was the 15:35 arrival! The 16:35 arrival has just made it all the way through 43 late! So we had no arrivals into Scarborough from York between 13:35 and 17:18. The 14:46, 15:46 and 16:46 departures from Scarborough are all cancelled too*. Forget the bus and walk/cycle the 42 miles instead!

*Update, according to RTT the 16:46 was actually reinstated and set off 36L. It was terminated at York.

 

[greyman42]

Ha! Well today the 14:35 arrival into Scarborough was turned at Malton as was the 15:35 arrival! The 16:35 arrival has just made it all the way through 43 late! So we had no arrivals into Scarborough from York between 13:35 and 17:18. The 14:46, 15:46 and 16:46 departures from Scarborough are all cancelled too*. Forget the bus and walk/cycle the 42 miles instead!

*Update, according to RTT the 16:46 was actually reinstated and set off 36L.

I was at York at about 1500 and there was a 185 stood on Platform 2 doing nothing. I believe it has been there for the past 24 hours. See # 516.

 

[scarby]

For the sake of the line’s dignity, it would be better if the Scarborough-York line was just shut instead of to suffer like this.

A line that has provided an unremarkable but reliable service for as long as I can remember has had it totally destroyed over the past 5 months.

Transpennine Express evidently don’t care a jot about it. I feel both sad and angry to see this happening.

 

[Bungle965]

For the sake of the line’s dignity, it would be better if the Scarborough-York line was just shut instead of to suffer like this.

A line that has provided an unremarkable but reliable service for as long as I can remember has had it totally destroyed over the past 5 months.

Transpennine Express evidently don’t care a jot about it. I feel both sad and angry to see this happening.

I think the idea of closing it is a bit rash and unnecessary, clearly an improvement does need to happen however I don't really think simply closing it is in anyway a viable option.
Sam

 

[EE Andy b1]

For the sake of the line’s dignity, it would be better if the Scarborough-York line was just shut instead of to suffer like this.

A line that has provided an unremarkable but reliable service for as long as I can remember has had it totally destroyed over the past 5 months.

Transpennine Express evidently don’t care a jot about it. I feel both sad and angry to see this happening.

I can understand your feelings but shutting the line is too drastic.
I know it doesn't help right now but let's see how TPE do with there new rolling stock on the Scarborough service in the near(ish) future and if no improvement take the franchise away from First!!

 

[Spartacus]

I think the idea of closing it is a bit rash and unnecessary, clearly an improvement does need to happen however I don't really think simply closing it is in anyway a viable option.
Sam

I still don't think Scarborough's getting any worse a service than Manchester Airport, and not much worse than Middlesbrough at times either.

 

[blackfive460]

I still don't think Scarborough's getting any worse a service than Manchester Airport, and not much worse than Middlesbrough at times either.

Middlesbrough and Manchester Airport have alternative rail services, Scarborough doesn't.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Platform 2 is also local door only now at Marsden. I took a trip to Huddersfield on Sunday, and the guard explained that there was a new rule so now local door only.

I was on an 'Ull service to Huddersfield-so no idea if the same applies to platform 1.

Platform 1 is all doors at Marsden.

 

[northernchris]

Most of the north TPE route has been dire since the timetable change. Saw an article in the Yorkshire Post yesterday highlighting one particular incident of the mess First have created

BOSSES at under-fire rail operator TransPennne Express have admitted that a 15-year-old teenage girl may have been left stranded miles from home because a train driver did not know where to stop on one of the region’s busiest routes. The extraordinary admission comes after the troubled rail firm sent an apologetic letter to Nicola Robinson after she submitted a formal complaint about her daughter Chloe’s plight. Details emerged just days after Thelma Walker, the MP for Colne Valley, persuaded Transport Secretary Chris Grayling to agree to meet local campaigners who have been highlighting persisting problems on the main line between Leeds and Manchester

Despite repeated calls and emails from The Yorkshire Post to the TransPennine Express press office, the company did not offer an explanation for the saga which took place on September 29.Mrs Robinson’s daughter had travelled from Slaithwaite to Leeds that day with friends to spend money that had been given to her for her 15th birthday. She then caught the 13.41 train back home.Tom Richmond: Rail’s own Chuckle Brothers are having a laugh ta usEven though the family says that passenger information screens confirmed that the train was due to stop at the Slaithwaite, and that this was backed up by National Rail Enquiries in a subsequent phone call, the first Mrs Robinson realised there was a problem was when she received a frantic call from her panic-stricken daughter. She said Chloe was in tears as the train passed Slaithwaite without stopping – and then the telephone line went dead as passengers passed through one of the long tunnels alone the line.

She was able to get off the train at Stalybridge, on the outskirts of Greater Manchester, before facing an anxious wait on her own before catching a train back home in order to begin her Saturday job at a local shop.The family complained to TransPennine Express and a member of the operator’s customers relations team replied this week: “I have investigated this journey for you, and I have been able to see that the train failing to stop was in fact due to an operational issue. “I could not tell you specifically why this has happened, although it may be due to the driver not being fully informed of whereabouts to stop along that route, and if this is the case you have my most sincere apologies.”
She enclosed £3.70 to reimburse the Robinson family for the cost of the ticket and a £10 rail voucher valid for 12 months which “can be used anywhere on the UK rail network excluding the London Underground and the Heathrow Express”.More than 750 trains serving Slaithwaite and nearby stations have either been cancelled since new timetables were introduced earlier this year – or seen late-running trains ordered not to stop at Pennine communities in a bid to make up lost time between major towns and cities.Many commuters say they’re being forced to make alternative travel plans while local businesses claim the unreliability of train services is hitting tourism in the Colne Valley.Local MP Thelma Walker said: “The situation that my constituents have had to face over the last several months with rail provision is unacceptable. Journey times have been extended, commuters can’t get to work on time, they have had to sacrifice time with their families and have struggled to make childcare arrangements to cope with the chaos. “Since the May timetable changes, there have not been two consecutive days without cancellations affecting Slaithwaite and Marsden.

Furthermore, there are accessibility issues at Marsden station, making it incredibly difficult for disabled rail users to use the services.“While the quality of provision has rapidly deteriorated since May, fares continue to rise, and the compensation scheme in place does not reflect the extent of the disruptions. Many of my constituents have reluctantly decided to travel by car, and local businesses are also being impacted.”Meanwhile Mrs Robinson describes the company’s latest excuse as “pathetic” and said passengers of all ages should expect to receive reliable information at stations – and on trains. “There’s the safety aspect – Chloe was left very upset – but the thing that annoys me most of all is that the conductor checked her ticket,” she added. “Why didn’t he tell her that the train was not stopping at the station? “It can’t carry on like this.”After this story was published online, TransPennine Express sent an email to The Yorkshire Post. It said “In regards to the enquiry this morning, we would be happy to get in touch with the complainant directly about this matter. Could you pass this onto her so we could reach out to her on Monday?

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...ft-stranded-by-transpennine-express-1-9416024

 

[nr758123]

I still don't think Scarborough's getting any worse a service than Manchester Airport

Not comparable at all. Manchester Airport has several (possibly nine?) services an hour from Piccadilly, so two consecutive cancellations are but a minor inconvenience. If two consecutive Scarborough services are cancelled, that's a three hour gap. The same applies with TPEs propensity for cancelling services at Slaithwaite & Mossley.

 

[SC43090]

I observed services at Manchester Piccadilly on Thursday afternoon for around 5 hours & the following observations were noted,,, Also time keeping at times is a shambles......

1B78 Airport Cleefhorpes Cancelled

1P72 Middlesborough Airport Cancelled

1P77 Airport Middlesborough Cancelled

1M96 Glasgow Airport terminated at Piccadilly

1P29 Airport Newcastle terminated at Darlington

1K20 Hull Manchester Piccadilly Cancelled

1K23 Manchester Piccadilly Hull Cancelled

1P26 Newcastle Airport started at Darlington

1S71 Airport Glasgow Started at Piccadilly

1K22 Hull Manchester Piccadilly cancelled

1K23 Manchester Piccadilly Hull Cancelled

1P28 Newcastle Airport started at Darlington

1P80 Middlesborough Airport terminated at Piccadilly

1P85 Airport Middlesborough started at Piccadilly


SC43090

 

[Spartacus]

Not comparable at all. Manchester Airport has several (possibly nine?) services an hour from Piccadilly, so two consecutive cancellations are but a minor inconvenience. If two consecutive Scarborough services are cancelled, that's a three hour gap. The same applies with TPEs propensity for cancelling services at Slaithwaite & Mossley.

Trouble is you don't get left at Piccadilly, you get left at Victoria, with no way of knowing if the next service will go to the airport or not, and I bet there's a far lower percentage of people with a time critical connection travelling to Seamer and Scarborough than MIA. TPE were still cancelling trains to MIA yesterday when there were barely any other services, and that was with pressure to keep running as many as physically possible.

 

[Spartacus]

Middlesbrough and Manchester Airport have alternative rail services, Scarborough doesn't.

The problem with MIA is that by the time one runs from Victoria to MIA you check in might have closed.

 

[Camden]

Trouble is you don't get left at Piccadilly, you get left at Victoria, with no way of knowing if the next service will go to the airport or not, and I bet there's a far lower percentage of people with a time critical connection travelling to Seamer and Scarborough than MIA. TPE were still cancelling trains to MIA yesterday when there were barely any other services, and that was with pressure to keep running as many as physically possible.

And the solution is to stop using the ordsall chord for chords sake, accept that sending long distance trains to Manchester Airport doesn't make sense and instead route the Victoria trains onward.

And use the billions already invested in that tram network, where people can either sit on a tram for an hour (still better than waiting on hope for an hour.. or two) or take a tram for just 10 minutes to connect to Piccadilly for faster, equally frequent services.

All the latter would take is for tfgm to decide to accept normal BR tickets for transfer between city centre stations, and likewise to accept airport tickets for the former.

People in big cities and small across the north are paying a heavy price for one city continually getting things its own way and no sensible decisions being made for the others.

 

[Greybeard33]

And the solution is to stop using the ordsall chord for chords sake, accept that sending long distance trains to Manchester Airport doesn't make sense and instead route the Victoria trains onward.

And use the billions already invested in that tram network, where people can either sit on a tram for an hour (still better than waiting on hope for an hour.. or two) or take a tram for just 10 minutes to connect to Piccadilly for faster, equally frequent services.

All the latter would take is for tfgm to decide to accept normal BR tickets for transfer between city centre stations, and likewise to accept airport tickets for the former.

People in big cities and small across the north are paying a heavy price for one city continually getting things its own way and no sensible decisions being made for the others.

Yeah, yeah, it's all Manchester's fault. Just reroute the TPE Airport trains to Lime Street instead (or maybe Southport and Kirkby?) Plus integrated Metrolink ticketing and, hey presto, problem solved!

But I doubt that you will find many "big cities and small" across Yorkshire and the North East rushing to join your fondly imagined anti-Manc coalition.

 

[Camden]

It's hardly "anti-manc" to recognise the causes behind the day to day misery that people have to endure, and quite honestly the paranoid suggestion there is some kind of "anti-manc" conspiracy lurking behind anything that doesn't prioritise your city over another is wearing a little thin.

You can't complain about London being prioritised over elsewhere, only to demand that your particular favourite takes its place. Railways need sensible, rather than political, decisions so that they can fulfill their function.

 

[LittleAH]

For the sake of the line’s dignity, it would be better if the Scarborough-York line was just shut instead of to suffer like this.

A line that has provided an unremarkable but reliable service for as long as I can remember has had it totally destroyed over the past 5 months.

Transpennine Express evidently don’t care a jot about it. I feel both sad and angry to see this happening.

Talk about over reaction! Close the line, people working on the railway not caring? Be reasonable.

We all know the issues around why we're in this position. There's not enough recovery time at Scarborough, the lack of investment into infrastructure, especially Manchester and the fact the whole of the NW and now 2 extra TPE services find themselves going through one line through the Castlefield corridor and there is also the rushing through of a needless timetable change.

It's not like they're TPE are not doing anything about it. They will be splitting the Leeds-Manchester stopper in the next timetable change, which will undoubtedly improve timetable reliability. I believe they will also be increasing the turnaround time in Scarborough once the Mk5's are ready. Lack of rolling stock, with 2 185s still with Northern and the 2 MK3 rakes not being allowed to be used has certainly had it's impact.

It's been a farce over the last 5 months, across the north. I as a regular commuter have experienced it myself and it's pretty much common place that every train I get is at least 5 mins late, and 5 mins late is usually something to be happy about!

 

[Chester1]

And the solution is to stop using the ordsall chord for chords sake, accept that sending long distance trains to Manchester Airport doesn't make sense and instead route the Victoria trains onward.

And use the billions already invested in that tram network, where people can either sit on a tram for an hour (still better than waiting on hope for an hour.. or two) or take a tram for just 10 minutes to connect to Piccadilly for faster, equally frequent services.

All the latter would take is for tfgm to decide to accept normal BR tickets for transfer between city centre stations, and likewise to accept airport tickets for the former.

People in big cities and small across the north are paying a heavy price for one city continually getting things its own way and no sensible decisions being made for the others.

There shouldn't be any need to take Metrolink to get from Victoria to the Airport. Ordsall Chord provides a useful link but it would best served by Northern services prefrably with mid carriage doors.