Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Grumpy]

Pity it's only 25mph at Guide Bridge

 

[Bald Rick]

have you got a link?

I do!

But not one you can access. Sorry to be a tease.

 

[507020]

Down Ashton will be 60 after Katherine Street Tunnel (as now), then 50mph through Stalybridge West Jn (currently 35mph) onto the Down Huddersfield (platform 4).

For moves onto Platform 3 (Up/Down Middle) or into platforms 1,2,3 the crossover will be 40mph (currently 25mph).

Down Huddersfield remains 50mph approaching Stalybridge West Jn and through platform 4. For moves to platform 3 (UDM) or platforms 1 and 2 the crossover is 40mph (currently 25mph).

For UP trains routed through Platform 1 to Up Ashton will be 50mph through Stalybridge, then 30mph (currently 25mph).

For UP trains routed through Platform 3 the line speed will be 50mph through the platform, through Stalybridge West Jn and then immediately 60mph once on to the Up Ashton.

Up Huddersfield to Up Huddersfield remains 50mph through Stalybridge, then 40mph after Stalybridge West Jn through both platforms 1 and 3.

Bay Platform 2 remains.

Are there any of these videos for the improvements that have been made at Miles Platting?

 

[507020]

See 39:15

It promised 70/80mph, although that might have been with a grade separated solution that was confirmed to have been written off in a later PWI video.

Also this video’s map of diversionary routes, emphasis is given to the fact that the lack of a Bradford Interchange avoiding line gives no diversionary route for the line section through Mirfield, which is presumably why the fast lines will run on a new alignment, but also running to York via Castleford is proposed, reversing at Leeds.

This explains why the current scope of electrification is only as far as the end of the 4 track section at Church Fenton, so these diversions haven’t been done yet. When work moves on to Church Fenton - Leeds including the Neville Hill remodelling mentioned a few posts back, is this still the plan and will capacity allow all services to reverse at Leeds, or will there also be a need to run a Leeds avoiding service directly from Normanton to Castleford? I do particularly want to go on the line from Castleford to Burton Salmon.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In the driver training videos I noticed a "Pan Down" sign coming into Stalybridge from the Guide Bridge direction, some distance out.
Does that mean that there won't be electric working into the station from that direction, at least at this stage?
Presumably it's a changeover point for bi-modes.

 

[CAF397]

If the wires only terminate in Stalybridge station, and the Leeds bound train is not booked to call at Stalybridge, doesn't leave much room for error.

 

[59CosG95]

If the wires only terminate in Stalybridge station, and the Leeds bound train is not booked to call at Stalybridge, doesn't leave much room for error.

There's most likely going to be a notice to drop pantographs before Stalybridge station to minimise the chances of something of this ilk happening.
Oxford-bound Class 800s/802s that don't stop at Didcot do so at Moreton Cutting, before they reach the Didcot Avoider, as a comparable example.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So the only electric working into Stalybridge station will be the Victoria local into the P5 bay?

 

[Watershed]

So the only electric working into Stalybridge station will be the Victoria local into the P5 bay?

You would hope that TPE would have their 802s switching to/from electric on the move. But that will at best add another 1.5tph to the number of electric services.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You would hope that TPE would have their 802s switching to/from electric on the move. But that will at best add another 1.5tph to the number of electric services.

From what I have seen in the new timetable, the Liverpool-Newcastle TPE 802 will call at Stalybridge, instead of passing through as it does now.
I am just wondering if this kind of service will be able to switch during the station call, or have to do it beforehand.
And then what happens when it runs to/from Piccadilly instead.
No doubt it will soon become clear.

 

[zwk500]

You would hope that TPE would have their 802s switching to/from electric on the move. But that will at best add another 1.5tph to the number of electric services.

From what I have seen in the new timetable, the Liverpool-Newcastle TPE 802 will call at Stalybridge, instead of passing through as it does now.
I am just wondering if this kind of service will be able to switch during the station call, or have to do it beforehand.
And then what happens when it runs to/from Piccadilly instead.
No doubt it will soon become clear.

The mention of future APCO certainly indicates on-the-fly switching is intended, whether it happens immediately or not is a different matter. Even if it is only 1.5tph, it's still less diesel being burnt in the city centre. Every little helps.

 

[snowball]

Press release possibly (it's not very clearly worded) claiming completion of the wiring between Colton and Church Fenton, except for the two Christmases worth of tie-in works to come.

Transpennine Route Upgrade’s first electric wires now in place to power greener journeys

Over 30 miles of train-powering electric wires are now in place to help deliver cleaner, greener journeys in the future as part of the multi-billion-pound Transpennine Route Upgrade.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Over 30 miles of train-powering electric wires are now in place to help deliver cleaner, greener journeys in the future as part of the multi-billion-pound Transpennine Route Upgrade.

The work has taken place between Church Fenton and Colton Junction, where trains from Leeds join the East Coast Main Line into York. This is one of the busiest stretches of railway in the north, with over 100 trains using the line each day.

It is the first step towards a cleaner, greener, fully electrified railway between York, Leeds, Huddersfield and Manchester. When the newly-installed wires are energised, they will allow more environmentally-friendly electric and hybrid trains to run at speeds of up to 125mph – which is 30mph faster than they can currently run.

Rob McIntosh, Managing Director for Network Rail’s Eastern region said: “We’ve reached a major milestone on our journey to bring cleaner, greener trains to the north and deliver a better railway which people can rely on.

“Our teams in York and Manchester are working in tandem to electrify sections of the route and will eventually connect to unlock faster, more frequent services and help passengers get to where they need to be, on time.”

Rail Minister Huw Merriman said: “Our multi-billion pound Transpennine Route upgrade will transform journeys for passengers across the North of England, with faster, more frequent services and improved accessibility.

“This is the first major milestone on the way to a fully electrified route between York, Leeds, Huddersfield and Manchester, which will reduce journey times and save 87,000 tonnes of carbon emissions each year."

Over the last four months, Network Rail engineers have put in just under 9000 hours of work to install a total of 37 miles of overhead wire. Work was carried out overnight and at weekends to cause as little disruption to passengers as possible.

When complete across the full 70-mile route across the Pennines, rail passengers will be helping to save up to 87,000 tonnes of carbon emissions each year – equivalent to 5.9 million car journeys along the same route. For people living near the railway, it will also mean better air quality and quieter trains.

To maintain an equally eco-friendly construction, the new overhead line equipment was assembled locally at the Transpennine Route Upgrade’s own Joseph Lynn Logistics Hub near Sherburn-in-Elmet and transported to site by train.

 

[Nottingham59]

Press release possibly (it's not very clearly worded) claiming completion of the wiring between Colton and Church Fenton, except for the two Christmases worth of tie-in works to come.

Transpennine Route Upgrade’s first electric wires now in place to power greener journeys

Over 30 miles of train-powering electric wires are now in place to help deliver cleaner, greener journeys in the future as part of the multi-billion-pound Transpennine Route Upgrade.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

I see that "over 100 trains per day" use this four-track section. That's 2tph for 12 hours per day, on each track. Is that right? What was the financial case for electrifying? It must have been pretty poor value for money.

 

[lineclear]

I see that "over 100 trains per day" use this four-track section. That's 2tph for 12 hours per day, on each track. Is that right? What was the financial case for electrifying? It must have been pretty poor value for money.

Well, 'over 100 trains' is correct!

During the day, in an hour there is, or should be, in each direction:

Liverpool-Newcastle TPE
Manchester-Redcar TPE
South West-Scotland XC
Leeds-York Northern
Blackpool-York Northern
Hull-York Northern
Approx one freight

plus the occasional Liverpool-Scarborough TPE.

There are also overnight freight and TPE services.

 

[Halish Railway]

So the only electric working into Stalybridge station will be the Victoria local into the P5 bay?

From the timetable change there will be a 1tp2h Manchester Piccadilly to Newcastle via Guide Bridge service which will stop at Stalybridge worked by an 802 that will raise/drop its pantograph in the platform.

 

[Nottingham59]

Liverpool-Newcastle TPE
Manchester-Redcar TPE
South West-Scotland XC
Leeds-York Northern
Blackpool-York Northern
Hull-York Northern
Approx one freight

So that's around 200 tpd. That's much more like the number I would have expected. And improves the financial case no end. Thanks.

 

[zwk500]

So that's around 200 tpd. That's much more like the number I would have expected. And improves the financial case no end. Thanks.

Worth pointing out that at the moment only the TPE and potentially the freight could switch to Electric. XC and Northern don't have bi-modes and those services run on non-electrified track in parts.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Worth pointing out that at the moment only the TPE and potentially the freight could switch to Electric. XC and Northern don't have bi-modes and those services run on non-electrified track in parts.

Northern uses 769s on some Stalybridge services, and could switch the whole service via Bolton to electric if it wanted to.

 

[snowball]

Northern uses 769s on some Stalybridge services, and could switch the whole service via Bolton to electric if it wanted to.

zwk's post was a contribution to the York-Church Fenton discussion which is going on in parallel with the Stalybridge one.

 

[zwk500]

Northern uses 769s on some Stalybridge services, and could switch the whole service via Bolton to electric if it wanted to.

I'd forgotten about the 769s but yes, I was talking about the services on the Church Fenton section, where Northern do not use their bi-modes.

 

[59CosG95]

I see that "over 100 trains per day" use this four-track section. That's 2tph for 12 hours per day, on each track. Is that right? What was the financial case for electrifying? It must have been pretty poor value for money.

Better to get it all done now than electrifying only 2/4 tracks first, than needing to come back to electrify the other 2 "when the business case dictates"...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'd forgotten about the 769s but yes, I was talking about the services on the Church Fenton section, where Northern do not use their bi-modes.

Ah... Sorry.
There might be a bit more electric working at the Manchester end, but not much if TPE stick with 185s and Mk5s.

 

[507020]

Ah... Sorry.
There might be a bit more electric working at the Manchester end, but not much if TPE stick with 185s and Mk5s.

I think the idea is TPE won’t stick with 185s to run on an electrified line and the Mk5s can be hauled by an electric loco instead of the 68s.

Is there any indication of when Church Fenton - Neville Hill will be done yet?

 

[Nottingham59]

at the moment only the TPE and potentially the freight could switch to Electric. XC and Northern don't have bi-modes

True. But within 15-20 years I would hope all the trains using this section would be electric capable.

Better to get it all done now than electrifying only 2/4 tracks first

I agree with that. Doing 4/4 tracks will be far less than twice the cost of doing 2/4. And 3.5tph per track is getting closer to financial justification.

The 6tph per track betweeen Neville Hill and Church Fenton should be nearly enough to give a positive financial case for electrification, even without the wider social benefits in a BCR calculation. There are not many unelectrified tracks left in GB that carry 6tph or more.

 

[zwk500]

True. But within 15-20 years I would hope all the trains using this section would be electric capable.

Within 15-20 years I'd hope there's a lot more electric capable track! Neville Hill-Church Fenton is in the pipeline, Micklefield-Hull really should be as well.

 

[adamedwards]

I would assume any future Cross Country trains replacing the Voyagers will be bimode to end the scandal of diesels under the wires York to Glasgow. Once the wires reach Leeds then one will surely see LNER making use of the wires too for their services and any diversions. It's a bit chicken and egg. If you don't wire then there's no incentive for the train operator to invest in electric trains.

 

[zwk500]

I would assume any future Cross Country trains replacing the Voyagers will be bimode to end the scandal of diesels under the wires York to Glasgow. Once the wires reach Leeds then one will surely see LNER making use of the wires too for their services and any diversions.

'Scandal' is pushing it. It'd be more scandalous to scrap perfectly serviceable trains ahead of time to build bi-modes over pure EMUs

It's a bit chicken and egg. If you don't wire then there's no incentive for the train operator to invest in electric trains.

It's not chicken and egg, but both together. You target lines that can switch wholesale, and then the network effect takes over. Bi-Modes and Batteries help, of course. Leeds and York to Hull would be a good start. Then Doncaster to Selby/Gilberdyke, etc.

 

[InOban]

What I don't understand is why, having completed the section apart from 'tying in', which seems to be a minor job, they're not planning to do this and switch on the juice until sometime in 2024.

 

[zwk500]

What I don't understand is why, having completed the section apart from 'tying in', which seems to be a minor job, they're not planning to do this and switch on the juice until sometime in 2024.

I'm guessing the 'tying in' is the actual connections between the new and old wires at Colton Junction itself. That needs the lines to be closed for long enough to fit and test them, and the wires can't be switched on until the tying is is actually done.

 

[59CosG95]

I'm guessing the 'tying in' is the actual connections between the new and old wires at Colton Junction itself. That needs the lines to be closed for long enough to fit and test them, and the wires can't be switched on until the tying is is actually done.

Not to mention the grid tie-ins at Hambleton & York as part of ECPSU 2...