Travel Irregularity Email - Greater Anglia

[RedSky]

Hi all,

I have received an email from the Fraud Team at Greater Anglia regarding Travel Irregularities. I note from previous threads that these are potential ‘fishing’ emails to get people to fess up to what Greater Anglia are nearly certain is fraudulent travel.

Unfortunately, against the advice of many on this forum, I was quite shocked to be receiving the email and responded asking for more information.

I have received the below in response:

“Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your reply.

To aid our investigation, data has highlighted tickets either being purchased on board the trains or on arrival at stations. These tickets have been scanned on the barriers just after purchase in order to exit the station. These tickets are not valid and must be purchased prior to boarding the train. This flagged your account as possible fraudulent travel.

For example:

DD/MM/YY HH:MMS    Station A   Station B
DD/MM/YY HH:MMS    Station C   Station D

These tickets suggest the full fare may have gone unpaid and have been used just to enter/exit the stations. Can you explain your journeys please?

In addition, our database holds no record of your 26-30 railcard from March 2023. Could you provide evidence of your railcard from this date please? This could either be your purchase email confirmation or from your railcard account.

Based on your response the decision will be to either (a) offer you the opportunity to repay any funds relating to these journeys, administration fees are added to any settlement; (b) pass your file to our prosecuting services or the British Transport Police for further action to be taken.”

I am looking at formulating a response to this as I held a valid paper ticket from Station A to Station E but got off at Station D due to a change of plans. As the tickets final destination wasn’t Station D, I panicked and purchased a ticket at the gate to get through, unfortunately the expired Railcard I held was used accidentally on this purchase.

On my return to Station D, the barriers were open and I boarded the train to Station B, where I got off, again I panicked as my ticket was only valid to Station A (which is further down the rail line) and I purchased a ticket at the barrier to leave the station. This purchase also had the expired railcard used.

Unfortunately, the valid paper ticket was purchased on my behalf a few days before and I no longer have the ticket.

I am at a bit of loss on what to do in response as I can see how they believe this is shortfaring but I do acknowledge that the railcard was used in error while panicking trying to get through the barrier.

I am hoping someone on the forum would be able to assist with a response as I am happy to settle this with Greater Anglia financially to avoid court.

Thanks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which stations are involved and why were you getting off at “D” having bought a ticket to a further destination? Can you evidence the valid tickets you did hold?

(This would be the very first question an investigator would want to ask because your explanation doesn’t make much sense at all and it looks absolutely like doughnutting)

 

[RedSky]

I had an open return paper ticket for Colchester Town to Felixstowe but I got off at Ipswich as I had a change of plans with a friend. I purchased a ticket at the barrier for Derby Road (Ipswich) to Ipswich to get through the barrier as the final destination on my ticket was Felixstowe.

I did the same on the way back and got off at Colchester (North Station) and not Colchester Town.

Unfortunately I cannot evidence the valid ticket as this has been binned and was paid for and given to me by a friend a few days before.

 

[AlterEgo]

I had an open return paper ticket for Colchester Town to Felixstowe but I got off at Ipswich as I had a change of plans with a friend. I purchased a ticket at the barrier for Derby Road (Ipswich) to Ipswich to get through the barrier as the final destination on my ticket was Felixstowe.

I did the same on the way back and got off at Colchester (North Station) and not Colchester Town.

Unfortunately I cannot evidence the valid ticket as this has been binned and was paid for and given to me by a friend a few days before.

So this happened only once? The email references only a single journey?

 

[RedSky]

I purchased a ticket on the Trainline app to get the barrier Colchester (North Station) for Colchester Town to Colchester as my valid paper ticket was only valid to go to Colchester Town. I did barrier purchases twice in the same day.

I have only done this on this journey and all previous purchases on my Trainline account are legitimate.

 

[AlterEgo]

I purchased a ticket on the Trainline app to get the barrier Colchester (North Station) for Colchester Town to Colchester as my valid paper ticket was only valid to go to Colchester Town. I did barrier purchases twice in the same day.

I have only done this on this journey and all previous purchases on my Trainline account are legitimate.

So they’ve sent an email about one journey, to be clear? This is very unlike them to send it after only one occasion.

You had a perfectly valid ticket, which is valid to enter and exit and break your journey at all those stations. There’s no need to buy those short tickets at all.

I’d be getting in touch with your friend if I were you to substantiate your story. They should still have proof of purchase unless - and I will regret asking this - they paid cash at a booking office?

 

[RedSky]

So they’ve sent an email about one journey, to be clear? This is very unlike them to send it after only one occasion.

You had a perfectly valid ticket, which is valid to enter and exit and break your journey at all those stations. There’s no need to buy those short tickets at all.

I’d be getting in touch with your friend if I were you to substantiate your story. They should still have proof of purchase unless - and I will regret asking this - they paid cash at a booking office?

Yes that’s correct, every other ticket I have purchased has been correct with a valid railcard. They have flagged these two barrier purchases as potential fraud.

I wasn’t aware you could do this, I thought you could only board and leave the train at the stations on your ticket, I appear to have made a mountain out of mole hill by the lack of understanding of rail ticketing.

Unfortunately yes, the ticket was purchased in cash and I have no way of proving the purchase of this ticket. Unfortunately, I cannot see this not being accepted by an investigator.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes that’s correct, every other ticket I have purchased has been correct with a valid railcard. They have flagged these two barrier purchases as potential fraud.

I wasn’t aware you could do this, I thought you could only board and leave the train at the stations on your ticket, I appear to have made a mountain out of mole hill by the lack of understanding of rail ticketing.

Unfortunately yes, the ticket was purchased in cash and I have no way of proving the purchase of this ticket. Unfortunately, I cannot see this not being accepted by an investigator.

A vanishingly small number of tickets are paid for in cash at ticket offices now yet I just knew that would be the case here.

I’m afraid your story is not likely to be believed by an investigator and they’ve caught you short faring. That’s what all the evidence will show - that you boarded trains, without a ticket, and, having not been challenged, arrived at a barriered station and then purchased the cheapest possible ticket to exit. And it’s especially not going to wash that you managed to remove the railcard when it expired for all your journeys but added it back for a discount when the ticket was only being used to exit a barrier.

If it’s the case you did actually short fare or doughnut, well it isn’t the crime of the century, but you’ll have to attempt to settle with Greater Anglia. That involves being honest with them.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

It's highly unusual for Greater Anglia to contact people about one journey only. And to be frank, your explanation about holding a ticket for a longer journey is scarcely believable.

The best thing to do when in a hole is to stop digging. It's unfortunate that you've engaged with Greater Anglia because while there is evidence that something is not right with your ticket purchases, it is highly unlikely that Greater Anglia could prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you used these tickets illegally. By engaging with them you've as good as incriminated yourself.

Greater Anglia will offer you an out of court settlement if you engage with them. Expect to have to pay the cost of all the journeys made at the full Anytime rate, with no credit given for the invalid tickets purchased, plus an admin fee of around £150. An out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't a fine - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction. You won't have a criminal conviction if you pay a settlement.

Feel free to pop a draft of anything you propose sending to GA in this thread and forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[WesternLancer]

A vanishingly small number of tickets are paid for in cash at ticket offices now yet I just knew that would be the case here.

I’m afraid your story is not likely to be believed by an investigator and they’ve caught you short faring. That’s what all the evidence will show - that you boarded trains, without a ticket, and, having not been challenged, arrived at a barriered station and then purchased the cheapest possible ticket to exit. And it’s especially not going to wash that you managed to remove the railcard when it expired for all your journeys but added it back for a discount when the ticket was only being used to exit a barrier.

If it’s the case you did actually short fare or doughnut, well it isn’t the crime of the century, but you’ll have to attempt to settle with Greater Anglia. That involves being honest with them.

Has the op actually been stopped and questioned?

I read this to be the result of a data trawl.

If so presumably the op could write and tell the railway their version of events and see what happens.

 

[RedSky]

Thank you all for the advise. The original email was as a result of data trawl as WesternLancer mentions, however in a panic I responded which has lead me to this situation.

Unfortunately, I have come to realise that my story about getting off the train with valid paper ticket at an earlier stop would most likely be seen as hole digging as I have no way to evidence a ticket was ever purchased. I have spoken to my brother about this matter this morning and he seems perplexed as to why I purchased tickets for stations I have a valid ticket. Unfortunately I have never left or boarded a train later or earlier than my ticket is for before so I wasn’t aware doing so wasn’t actually an offence.

I have formulated the below response which I am looking at sending to Greater Anglia:

“Good morning,

Thank you for your email and I am very sorry for the delay in response.

Firstly I would like to apologise for what I have done and I showed a severe lapse in judgement when purchasing the incorrect tickets while on the train with a recently expired railcard.

I am now learning of the legal and potentially life changing ramifications of fare evasion, which would result in a criminal record and loss of employment if taken to court. I have also learnt that this has a huge impact on train operating companies such as Greater Anglia, which I rely on daily for my commute to work.

I deeply regret what I have done and I would pay an immediate out of court settlement, if one was offered, to cover the cost of the Colchester Town to Ipswich return journey as well as the administrative costs outlined in Option A.

As you can see from my purchasing history, this is the first time I have committed this offence as all previous journeys have been purchased accurately with a valid railcard.

Kind Regards”

Please let me know of any changes that I should make as I am deeply regretful of ever doing this and now just want the matter to be settled.

 

[WesternLancer]

Unfortunately I have never left or boarded a train later or earlier than my ticket is for before so I wasn’t aware doing so wasn’t actually an offence.

and just to add to the confusion with ticketing, with certain types of ticket it can be an offence. That would be a ticket called an 'Advance' though in practice if one alighted at an unbarriered station short of the destination on the ticket I can't see that there would be any practical ability to pursue it as an offence.

However, if alighting earlier, at a station with barriers or a ticket check, then an Advance ticket holder might well be questions about it.

This case from 2010 made widespread media at the time - I'm not sure if the rules remain the same however, as it's along time ago now

Getting off train early costs Durham professor £155

A Durham University professor is charged £155 for getting off a train a stop early at Darlington.

www.bbc.co.uk

A Durham University professor has said being charged £155 for getting off a train a stop early was "absurd".

Martyn Evans got off the East Coast service at Darlington, which is near his home in Hurworth, rather than stay on to Durham.

The train company said he had breached the terms of his first class ticket to Durham by "breaking his journey".

The firm, which is majority owned by the taxpayer, waived the charge after Prof Evans made a formal complaint.

The married father-of-two, who is professor of humanities in medicine, said he was made to feel like a fare dodger.

He had used three first class tickets booked by the university to cover a trip from Durham to London, London to Birmingham, then Birmingham to Durham.

As he lives in Hurworth he got off at Darlington, but his ticket would not let him pass through the automatic barriers at the platform.

Thank you all for the advise. The original email was as a result of data trawl as WesternLancer mentions, however in a panic I responded which has lead me to this situation.

Unfortunately, I have come to realise that my story about getting off the train with valid paper ticket at an earlier stop would most likely be seen as hole digging as I have no way to evidence a ticket was ever purchased. I have spoken to my brother about this matter this morning and he seems perplexed as to why I purchased tickets for stations I have a valid ticket. Unfortunately I have never left or boarded a train later or earlier than my ticket is for before so I wasn’t aware doing so wasn’t actually an offence.

I have formulated the below response which I am looking at sending to Greater Anglia:

“Good morning,

Thank you for your email and I am very sorry for the delay in response.

Firstly I would like to apologise for what I have done and I showed a severe lapse in judgement when purchasing the incorrect tickets while on the train with a recently expired railcard.

I am now learning of the legal and potentially life changing ramifications of fare evasion, which would result in a criminal record and loss of employment if taken to court. I have also learnt that this has a huge impact on train operating companies such as Greater Anglia, which I rely on daily for my commute to work.

I deeply regret what I have done and I would pay an immediate out of court settlement, if one was offered, to cover the cost of the Colchester Town to Ipswich return journey as well as the administrative costs outlined in Option A.

As you can see from my purchasing history, this is the first time I have committed this offence as all previous journeys have been purchased accurately with a valid railcard.

Kind Regards”

Please let me know of any changes that I should make as I am deeply regretful of ever doing this and now just want the matter to be settled.

The problem with your draft reply is that you are clearly admitting you committed an offence and asking them to settle it out of court - but in your story here you did not commit an offence - so which is it?

If you didn't commit an offence you should tell them what you told us and leave them to decide if they believe it or not. But if you did commit an offence I would strongly suggest not lying to them. Either way I'm not sure I would pro actively admit to committing offences that they didn't even catch you doing.

If you want to tell them what you have told us up thread you could end your letter by saying - 'if you believe I have travelled without a ticket please advise me if there is a payment I owe' or some such wording.

 

[AlterEgo]

and just to add to the confusion with ticketing, with certain types of ticket it can be an offence.

It can’t ever be. Which offence do you think someone has committed by doing this?

These matters are dealt with under the customer contract by way of paying the excess up to the ticket which allows break of journey.

In the linked article, the passenger was charged the excess, and was unhappy about it.

 

[furlong]

Unfortunately yes, the ticket was purchased in cash and I have no way of proving the purchase of this ticket.

Simply tell them where and when the ticket was bought and hopefully they'll be able find the record of the purchase.

It seems very unlikely anyone else would have bought that exact same ticket from the same location the same number of days in advance using cash. If it's not too long ago they'll be able to get a CCTV picture of the purchaser too.

 

[WesternLancer]

It can’t ever be. Which offence do you think someone has committed by doing this?

These matters are dealt with under the customer contract by way of paying the excess up to the ticket which allows break of journey.

In the linked article, the passenger was charged the excess, and was unhappy about it.

Thanks for clarifying this point.

 

[saismee]

In future, the best way to tell whether you can alight early (without paying more) is by checking the National Rail website. Your ticket will have a restriction code (CDR for the journey you took), visiting nre.co.uk/CDR will show you exactly what you can and can't do with your ticket. You can also view the National Rail Conditions of Travel for more information about your rights and obligations as a ticket holder.

If your story is legitimate, then it is an incredibly unfortunate situation. It is also very hard to believe, and it seems unlikely to be flagged on the first instance. If there are any other instances of railcard or ticket misuse in your account history, please tell the forum members as that will be the only way they can help you properly.

To other forum members, is it even worth OP continuing to respond? What did OP exactly say/admit to in the FIRST email?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If your story is legitimate, then it is an incredibly unfortunate situation. It is also very hard to believe, and it seems unlikely to be flagged on the first instance. If there are any other instances of railcard or ticket misuse in your account history, please tell the forum members as that will be the only way they can help you properly.

To other forum members, is it even worth OP continuing to respond? What did OP exactly say/admit to in the FIRST email?

If the OP is telling the truth, then it seems to me that they have not committed an offence in that they had a valid ticket for the journey they made (as well as the two extra (and unnecessary) 'short' tickets). But as @saismee points out, it all sounds rather unlikely.

It's not nice to suggest that the OP isn't telling the truth so generally we try and avoid doing so. But on the information available, I think that's the conclusion that the railway would come to. I also think it's what a court would decide in that there seems to be no evidence of the valid ticket beyond the OP asserting that it was bought for them, in cash, by a friend.

So if the OP is telling the truth, then in practice they need to prove their story. If the original ticket still exists, then hang on to it. Whether the ticket exists or not, the OP needs to talk to their friend to see if their friend would be prepared to say in court (and on oath) that they bought the ticket.

This won't be easy. If it turns out not to be possible, then the OP may need to look at damage limitation: what is the best way to get out of this situation with as little cost as possible? And that may involve conceding at an early stage to aim to settle out of court.

 

[saismee]

on the information available, I think that's the conclusion that the railway would come to. I also think it's what a court would decide in that there seems to be no evidence of the valid ticket beyond the OP asserting that it was bought for them, in cash, by a friend.

If the OP didn't actually admit to anything in their email, could they theoretically just ignore Greater Anglia? There's no evidence that OP travelled on invalid tickets, just that they purchased them and that they were used. Is it an offence to use an invalid ticket to open barriers? Can they even prove that it was OP who used the tickets?

I am also questioning how/why they emailed OP for one (and only one) case of doughnutting... I'm sure a good portion of people have travelled on a ticket that was purchased after departure without realising it was an offence (and without being stopped) and haven't had a travel irregularity email.

It's not nice to suggest that the OP isn't telling the truth so generally we try and avoid doing so.

It certainly isn't nice but forum members lie a lot as they are (presumably) ashamed of their actions, or believe hiding it will give them a better outcome (it won't). It is expected that people's stories are usually slightly less than the truth.

@RedSky, please post all of your emails with GA (with personal information redacted) so that other forum members can help properly assess your options and advise you better.

 

[enyoueffsea]

What an extremely unfortunate and peculiar set of events.

In order for your case to be believable, you’d need to convince GA:

1. You have a friend who purchases rail tickets on your behalf, a number of days in advance, from a ticket office in cash. Despite only a very small number of tickets being purchased in this way and even less being done days in advance on behalf of someone else.

2. Whilst travelling on the train, you decided spontaneously to get off at a different station to the journey your friend had booked for you, presumably for pre-arranged plans, days earlier. Otherwise you would have purchased a correct ticket prior to travel.

3. When getting off at the new station, your first thought was to buy a ticket online to exit the barrier, which you noticed was closed when you arrived. Which ordinarily you wouldn’t do as your friends purchase tickets on your behalf, in cash.

4. When you purchased this new ticket, you accidentally managed to add a railcard you don’t own, presumably due to your inexperience of buying tickets as your friend buys them at station ticket offices in cash. Coincidentally, this railcard reduced the ticket price without you knowing.

5. On your return, you again spontaneously decided to exit the train at a station different to the pre-arranged ticket. Otherwise you would have purchased a correct ticket prior to travel. Not only did your plans on the way change, your plans on the way home changed too.

6. Due to this change of plans, again, you decided to buy another ticket to exit the closed barriers. This was because you thought it was the correct thing to do, rather than solely as a purpose to exit the barrier you didn’t think would be closed.

7. This new ticket also had a railcard accidentally applied to it, discounting the cost of the trip you decided to take whilst on the train. Not only did you miss this applied discount on the outbound trip, you also missed it on the return.

8. The tickets purchased in cash at the ticket office were all discarded with.

Not only have you managed to find yourself in an extremely unlikely situation but you have the complete misfortune that GA Fraud Team have started to investigate one off trips that I don’t think has ever been known to happen in this way. We know this because your ticket purchasing will not show similar bookings to this, as you only had this happen once.

…maybe best if you do reply to GA, to consider your response properly. Secondly, if you’re asking for help on here, you’ll only get the help that you need if you are honest.