Travel Irregularity: Grantham to Newark Northgate

[Astarael]

Hi, I need some things clarifying about my case.

I've included the piece of paper he gave me.

This morning I was found without a ticket for a second time by the same inspector as last time. He asked for my ID and asked why I was travelling without a ticket. I panicked saying I was "late for the train".

However he had seen me on the platform and followed me onto the train thus knew I my story was false. From here he took my details and told me a letter would arrive within 21 days to inform me of what action will be taken.

No fine was issued nor ticket. After he told me what would happen I informed him as to why I had got onto the train without purchasing a ticket. "I am a student attending college, I have limited income and I haven't received my travel funding from college this week". He said he understood my position but "the rail company is not a charity".

What I would like to know is what the usual course of action is for these proceedings, am likely to be fined/taken to court and whether I will get a criminal conviction for this offence.

I appreciate that advice may be difficult given that there are no letters to inform about my case however I want to know what to expect.

Yes, I am an idiot for not paying the fare at the station and lying to the inspector. I regret my actions but I will point out I was forced into this position else I would've likely had my travel funding revoked.

Edit: The first time I was stopped I was not challenged beyond having to pay for the ticket and it was never mentioned that I had to buy a ticket at the machine before boarding. No details were taken either.

This time the inspector saw me walk past the ticket machines, obviously he recognised me from the previous time and thought he could catch me in the act.

 

[Clip]

Yes, I am an idiot for not paying the fare at the station and lying to the inspector. I regret my actions but I will point out I was forced into this position.

Its worth pointing out that you were not forced into getting on the train and going to college - that was your decision and your decision only. Not getting your weekly funding through from your college doesn't excuse you from getting on the train without a ticket. You can always miss college and complain to them bitterly about this.

Its worth noting that today is Thursday and surely they dont give you your funding for your travel towards the end of the working week and if they dont and it comes through on a Friday ready for Monday or indeed a Monday then how have you been getting there the other 3 days this week?

Now, as this is your second time im sure they would look more towards a prosecution for you so how old are you?

When the letter arrives come back and tell us what it says and we can give you better advice then

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi, I need some things clarifying about my case.

This morning I was found without a ticket for a second time by the same inspector as last time. He asked for my ID and asked why I was travelling without a ticket. I lied saying I was "late for the train and was hoping to buy a ticket on the train".

However he had seen me on the platform and followed me onto the train thus knew I my story was false. From here he took my details and told me a letter would arrive within 21 days to inform my of what action will be taken.

No fine was issued nor ticket nor any physical acknowledgement of the occurrence. After he told me what would happen I informed him as to why I was attempting to avoid paying "I am a student attending college, I have limited income and I haven't received my travel funding from college this week so I can either eat or pay the fare". He said he understood my position but "the rail company is not a charity".

What I would like to know is what the usual course of action is for these proceedings, am likely to be fined/taken to court and whether I will get a criminal conviction for this offence.

I appreciate that advice may be difficult given that there are no letters to inform about my case however I want to know what to expect.

Yes, I am an idiot for not paying the fare at the station and lying to the inspector. I regret my actions but I will point out I was forced into this position.

There are two offences which are the most commonly prosecuted for cases of ticketing irregularities.

The first offence is one under Byelaw 18 of the Railway Byelaws 2005. This is a strict liability offence (i.e. your intent is irrelevant, like speeding) that is committed when you board a train without a valid ticket on you, or if you are unable to present a valid ticket for inspection. The only defence is that you had permission (written or verbal) to board without a valid ticket, or if there were no ticketing facilities at your boarding stations. I don't think either of those can be said to apply in your case, so it would appear that you are guilty of this offence.

The second offence is one under Section 5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (also known as RoRA). This is an offence which is committed when you travel, or attempt to travel, by train without already having paid your fare - but crucially intent to avoid payment of the fare must be present. However, as with the Byelaw 18 offence, it would appear that you are guilty of this offence, as, even if you planned to buy a ticket if stopped, you did intend to avoid paying for the fare if you weren't stopped (and you admit this).

The train company are entitled to prosecute you for either offence: in a case such as this where you have admitted having intent to avoid payment of the fare, I would be surprised if they were not considering going for a RoRA prosecution (even though, if you plead 'not guilty' they will have to prove intent to avoid payment of the fare, something they would not have to do for a Byelaws prosecution).

It is likely you will be sent a letter in due course (there is no official time limit of 21 days - that is merely a general policy; the legally binding time limit is 6 months for them to bring an application for prosecution before the Court). This letter will probably ask you for your version of events. There is a chance that you might be able to negotiate an out of Court settlement to this matter - this usually involving you paying for their investigative costs, the unpaid fare, and possibly an administrative penalty. However there is no obligation on the train company to consider, let alone accept, a settlement. And if you are struggling to pay even for the basics, I'm not sure you would be able to afford a settlement, unfortunately.

A conviction for a Byelaws offence would not result in a criminal record, as no record should be generated as it is considered immediately 'spent'. A conviction for a RoRA offence would result in a criminal record, but this would be considered 'spent' 1 year after conviction.

The circumstances of your committing of the offence will certainly not constitute as a defence for either offence; I would not even think that it serves as mitigation according to the official sentencing guidelines.

Unfortunately it's not good news, but at the end of the day you say "I regret my actions but I will point out I was forced into this position." I am afraid I can't agree with you there: you made the decision to take the train without buying a ticket ultimately, and I am sure there are also colleges in Grantham. So whilst I sympathise with living on a low income and also having to pay for the train, it does feel rather something of your own doing.

 

[tiptoptaff]

As FTLO says, as you admit you had no intention to pay the fare, then it is likely they will pursue a RoRA prosecution. What I think is key here is this is your second time caught by the same inspector. To the TOC, that alone will be making them think "How often has this occurred?" And, as the inspector followed you on to the train, it is likely they may have been following you over a period of time, and, if you have committed this offence more than the twice you;ve been stopped, they may be well aware and have documented it, which they will use as evidence in their prosecution.

I also sympathise with your financial situation, but I don't buy that you were forced to evade the fare. And, it's going to be far more expensive if/when you get fined, as even with 0 income, the court will levy a fine based on an assumed amount. (off the top of my head I do not know what it is, the more knowledgable here may be able to say.)

If you're lucky enough to be offered a settlement (although I can't see why they would) I urge you to accept it. It is likely to be a three figure sum. Even if you think you cannot afford it, you really should try and find a way to pay it. Otherwise they will likely succeed in their attempt to prosecute.

Also, there is a requirement in the forum rules for you to use the full station names before using their CRS codes, as you have done in your title; Can I ask you edit it so its clear to everyone where you were travelling, not just those who know them off hand - I know many but don't recognise the ones in your title. (although having gleaned from another post I assume it's Grantham-Newark?)

Edit - more detailed response above mine so superfluous info deleted from my post to avoid confusion

 

[Astarael]

Unfortunately it's not good news, but at the end of the day you say "I regret my actions but I will point out I was forced into this position." I am afraid I can't agree with you there: you made the decision to take the train without buying a ticket ultimately, and I am sure there are also colleges in Grantham. So whilst I sympathise with living on a low income and also having to pay for the train, it does feel rather something of your own doing.

Thankyou.
Yes it is entirely my responsibility that I got onto the train with the knowledge that I hadn't paid. Again I hadn't received my travel funding for this week and if I do not attend college I can have that funding withdrawn. Additionally there are only six colleges in the country that do my course so I have to attend Newark.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Thankyou.
Yes it is entirely my responsibility that I got onto the train with the knowledge that I hadn't paid. Again I hadn't received my travel funding for this week and if I do not attend college I can have that funding withdrawn. Additionally there are only six colleges in the country that do my course so I have to attend Newark.

But this is not a valid reason to not travel. You claim it was travel or eat - why not travel using your food money and buy food with your travel money when it arrives. I know it's overly simplifying your situation but its a question you'll be asked along the line in court and you'll be expected to give a reasonable answer in response. Surely being paid late for a week's travel doesn't mean it won't be paid at all?

 

[Astarael]

But this is not a valid reason to not travel. You claim it was travel or eat - why not travel using your food money and buy food with your travel money when it arrives. I know it's overly simplifying your situation but its a question you'll be asked along the line in court and you'll be expected to give a reasonable answer in response. Surely being paid late for a week's travel doesn't mean it won't be paid at all?

It doesn't mean I won't get paid at all but I've got enough money for two meals in the day otherwise. I knew it was a risk and I got caught. I'm fully prepared to pay off what is owed. Is there any other advice you can give me?

 

[scrapy]

Your age will also be a determining factor on whether they decide to prosecute. If you are under 18 prosecution will be much less likely but it will also depends on whether the company decide this is a first or second offence. We have very little information about your first encounter with the inspector, were your details taken then? Were you sold a ticket? Did the inspector advise you of the legal requirement to buy a ticket before travel in the future?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thankyou.
Yes it is entirely my responsibility that I got onto the train with the knowledge that I hadn't paid. Again I hadn't received my travel funding for this week and if I do not attend college I can have that funding withdrawn. Additionally there are only six colleges in the country that do my course so I have to attend Newark.

You have my full sympathy. I've had a look and I can't find anything obvious that's cheaper than just a plain season ticket. If you can afford £112.60 for a monthly season ticket, this can cover you for up to 4 weeks and a couple of days if you time the start date right, at the price of 3.84 weekly seasons, and you can also have an 'odd period' season ticket which covers you for anything between a month and a year, calculated at the equivalent of the monthly (discounted) rate.

 

[Astarael]

Your age will also be a determining factor on whether they decide to prosecute. If you are under 18 prosecution will be much less likely but it will also depends on whether the company decide this is a first or second offence. We have very little information about your first encounter with the inspector, were your details taken then? Were you sold a ticket? Did the inspector advise you of the legal requirement to buy a ticket before travel in the future?

I am over 18, no details were taken, no legal advice/warning was given and I was sold a ticket.

I had no idea it was an offence to not buy a ticket at a station with ticket machines. I was told a couple of months ago it was ok to buy a ticket on the train. It's only now that I have attempted to buy on the train.

 

[scrapy]

As FTLO says, as you admit you had no intention to pay the fare, then it is likely they will pursue a RoRA prosecution. What I think is key here is this is your second time caught by the same inspector. To the TOC, that alone will be making them think "How often has this occurred?" And, as the inspector followed you on to the train, it is likely they may have been following you over a period of time, and, if you have committed this offence more than the twice you;ve been stopped, they may be well aware and have documented it, which they will use as evidence in their prosecution.

An inspector would not be able to prove a person didn't have a ticket simply by following them and it would be wrong for them to make assumptions simply based on not seeing someone buy a ticket. Plenty of people buy tickets in advance or have season tickets so I very much doubt the OP has been followed on multiple occasions without being challenged and such evidence would not be admissible in court so would be a total waste of the RPIs time.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I am over 18, no details were taken, no legal advice/warning was given and I was sold a ticket.

I had no idea it was an offence to not buy a ticket at a station with ticket machines. I was told a couple of months ago it was ok to buy a ticket on the train. It's only now that I have attempted to buy on the train.

They didn't take any personal details at all? If so, they have nothing with which they can prosecute. That would surprise me greatly, if they started interviewing you about why you didn't buy a ticket before boarding, and yet didn't take any details.

 

[Astarael]

You have my full sympathy. I've had a look and I can't find anything obvious that's cheaper than just a plain season ticket. If you can afford £112.60 for a monthly season ticket, this can cover you for up to 4 weeks and a couple of days if you time the start date right, at the price of 3.84 weekly seasons, and you can also have an 'odd period' season ticket which covers you for anything between a month and a year, calculated at the equivalent of the monthly (discounted) rate.

I didn't know that was an option. Thanks

 

[scrapy]

I am over 18, no details were taken, no legal advice/warning was given and I was sold a ticket.

I had no idea it was an offence to not buy a ticket at a station with ticket machines. I was told a couple of months ago it was ok to buy a ticket on the train. It's only now that I have attempted to buy on the train.

Were you told by a member of rail staff it's ok to buy on the train? Or was it by a friend or family member?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I didn't know that was an option. Thanks

If you do get a season ticket, then, if you do any rail travel at all except that commute, it would be worthwhile obtaining a season ticket from somewhere like Aslockton or Ancaster to somewhere like Swinderby or Rolleston, as all of those cost the same as Grantham to Newark but cover you for part of the journey towards either Nottingham, Lincoln, Sleaford etc. and thus if you went to any of those places you'd only need a ticket from the last station covered by your season ticket, and not from Grantham.

 

[Astarael]

Were you told by a member of rail staff it's ok to buy on the train? Or was it by a friend or family member?

A member of rail staff at the ticket booth,

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

A member of rail staff at the ticket booth,

Were you told it was OK just that time, or OK in general? Is that member of staff someone you see regularly? Do you have their name?

 

[scrapy]

They didn't take any personal details at all? If so, they have nothing with which they can prosecute. That would surprise me greatly, if they started interviewing you about why you didn't buy a ticket before boarding, and yet didn't take any details.

I think the OP is referring to the 1st time they were stopped by the inspector. Details were taken the second time.

 

[Astarael]

Were you told it was OK just that time, or OK in general? Is that member of staff someone you see regularly? Do you have their name?

I was told it was ok in general, it was a few months ago so I don't remember the member of staff not their name unfortunately.

 

[Astarael]

I think the OP is referring to the 1st time they were stopped by the inspector. Details were taken the second time.

Correct, I have edited my original post to show that now

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Correct, I have edited my original post to show that now

In that case, technically speaking you could not be found guilty of a Byelaws offence - however proving it will be very difficult. You can still be guilty of a RoRA offence if you don't buy before you board and hope to pay only when challenged.

 

[scrapy]

If you were given permission to board without a ticket either by a sign or a member of rail staff then you have a defence. The problem is convincing a court that was the case. The fact that you've told the inspector that you can either 'eat or pay the fare' suggests that had you not been challenged on the train you would not have bought a ticket at your destination.

You will more than likely be contacted for your version of events, be honest and hopefully you will get an out of court settlement. Others on here will probably suggest exactly what to put in the letter.

 

[Astarael]

In that case, technically speaking you could not be found guilty of a Byelaws offence - however proving it will be very difficult. You can still be guilty of a RoRA offence if you don't buy before you board and hope to pay only when challenged.

I didn't know that was an offence but I understand

 

[Astarael]

If you were given permission to board without a ticket either by a sign or a member of rail staff then you have a defence. The problem is convincing a court that was the case. The fact that you've told the inspector that you can either 'eat or pay the fare' suggests that had you not been challenged on the train you would not have bought a ticket at your destination.

That is a good point about fare or eating. He didn't take note of that only my details.

 

[scrapy]

That is a good point about fare or eating. He didn't take note of that only my details.

He may include it in his witness statement that he will send to the prosecution department through.

 

[furlong]

There is a chance that you might be able to negotiate an out of Court settlement to this matter - this usually involving you paying for their investigative costs, the unpaid fare, and possibly an administrative penalty.

What administrative penalties do you have in mind that could form part of such an out of court settlement?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What administrative penalties do you have in mind that could form part of such an out of court settlement?

Whatever amount the train company deems appropriate. Sometimes they will be happy to settle just for their costs + the fare, other times they will ask for something on top. In a number of cases it may remain the best approach to simply pay this, even if it may feel injust

 

[Astarael]

Whatever amount the train company deems appropriate. Sometimes they will be happy to settle just for their costs + the fare, other times they will ask for something on top. In a number of cases it may remain the best approach to simply pay this, even if it may feel injust

I'd be happy to pay that so as to avoid criminal charges. Do you know how much their costs might be?

 

[furlong]

Whatever amount the train company deems appropriate. Sometimes they will be happy to settle just for their costs + the fare, other times they will ask for something on top. In a number of cases it may remain the best approach to simply pay this, even if it may feel injust

I can't think of a way that the franchise agreement entitles a train company to add "something on top" or to claim it is an "administrative penalty" and, through FOI, we can see that the DfT reminded Northern of this when it considered Northern's "penalty that isn't really a penalty" scheme. (There really ought to be no element of penalty or profit or levy in an enforceable out-of-court settlement for a criminal matter. An enforceable settlement merely puts the company back into the position in which it would have been had the specific alleged offence not been committed.)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

To the OP.

I have been a student and faced the choice of eating or paying for travel (and rent) so you have my sympathies too. Are you able to obtain any financial support from your parents? If you are lucky enough to get off with a fine, have you considered how you would resource the funds to pay this? Can you get a part time or weekend job?

Are there any "luxuries" you can forgo for a time - e.g. cigarettes/vape/alcohol? When I was a student, it was a choice between eating or smoking/drinking once my rent was paid. Mobile phones didn't exist back then so I didn't have that worry like students do now