Trawscymru Service News

[GusB]

Please note that this thread is for posting general news and updates about Trawscymru services and routes only. Please do not use this as a vehicle for grievances about the Welsh Government or any other political issues.

This was posted in Route One, regarding a new T8 service:

TrawsCymru T8 pilot introduced in North Wales - routeone

TrawsCymru has grown with the introduction of a new T8 cross-border service between Corwen and Chester via Ruthin and Mold on a pilot basis.

www.route-one.net

The TrawsCymru network in North Wales has grown with the introduction of the T8 cross-border service between Corwen and Chester via Ruthin and Mold on a 12-month pilot basis. It replaces other routes and will offer “more frequent and faster services,” says Transport for Wales (TfW).

M&H Coaches of Denbigh is operating the T8. TfW Development Director Mid, North and Rural Wales Lee Robinson says that the route represents “the latest in a number of improvements to regional bus services across Wales.”

Mr Robinson adds: “TfW is committed to improving accessibility for Wales’s country towns that are not on the rail network and we look forward to all the benefits the new T8 will bring.”

Introduction of the T8 represents a significant uplift in service to Chester compared to that provided by the routes that it has replaced. A largely hourly service runs for much of the day Monday to Saturday. The previous X1 service operated to Chester twice per day, although the X1 journeys served Chester railway station while the T8 does not. The T8 will connect with existing TrawsCymru services T3 and T10 at Corwen, however.

 

[Statto]

To add the T8 connects with the T3 & T10 in Corwen.

 

[busestrains]

Good to see another Traws Cymru bus route has been introduced now.

So i believe that means sixteen routes have now been introduced so far are as follows:

• T1 - Aberystwyth to Carmarthen
• T1C - Aberystwyth to Cardiff
• T1S - Aberystwyth to Swansea
• T2 - Aberystwyth to Bangor
• T3 - Barmouth to Wrexham
• T4 - Newtown to Cardiff
• T5 - Aberystwyth to Haverfordwest
• T6 - Brecon to Swansea
• T7 - Chepstow to Bristol
• T8 - Corwen to Chester
• T9 - Cardiff Airport to Cardiff
• T10 - Corwen to Bangor
• T11 - Fishguard to Haverfordwest
• T12 - Machynlleth to Wrexham
• T14 - Brecon - Hereford
• T19 - Blaenau Ffestiniog to Llandudno

So are there any plans to introduce the missing numbers routes? So far there is no T13 T15 T16 T17 T18 or even T20 or any number higher? So i am wondering whether other Traws Cymru routes are planned? If so where will these go?

Also i have seen mention of these routes being branded as Traws Cymru routes and showing up on the website and maps:

• 460 - Cardigan to Carmarthen
• X43 - Brecon to Abergavenny

Will these routes get renumbered to T prefix routes at some point in the near future? Or are they planning on just keeping them as they are?

 

[Llandudno]

You can delete T19 from the list next month..

 

[Simon75]

Apart from the T7, T8 and T14, I wonder if there are any plans to extend into England.
Eg from Wrexham to Nantwich, and Newtown to Shrewsbury?

 

[peterblue]

Apart from the T7, T8 and T14, I wonder if there are any plans to extend into England.
Eg from Wrexham to Nantwich, and Newtown to Shrewsbury?

There already are buses from Newtown to Shrewsbury.

Wrexham to Nantwich seems unlikely on the basis there are no major settlements between the two (except detouring via Whitchurch).

 

[Markdvdman]

T1S was Carmarthen to Swansea and no longer runs since covid.
T9 does not run anymore either.

However, that is not exhaustive just a quick observation!

 

[RELL6L]

Celtic Travels's trunk routes seem to be half-heartedly marketed as TrawsCymru Connect. These are:
X47 Aberystwyth - Llangurig - Rhayader - Llandrindod
X75 Shrewsbury - Welshpool - Newtown - Llanidloes - Llangurig
The two services each run two-hourly and connect at Llangurig, generally on the even hours, enhancing the network considerably in mid Wales.
The X75 combines with the T12 to provide a roughly hourly service (albeit via different routes) between Welshpool and Newtown (and on to Caersws).

While the X43 and 460 are mentioned on the TrawsCymru website, as noted above, the X47 and X75 are not. Politics? (Not going there....)

There was talk of a T22 Caernarfon - Porthmadog - Blaenau Ffestiniog with electric vehicles, seems to have gone quiet though. At one point this was going to link in with the T19, both to be run from an electric depot in or around Blaenau, but again gone quiet.

There is a service 146, run by Pat's Coaches, between Wrexham and Whitchurch via the delightful village of Bangor on Dee. At one point this was hourly (and quite busy) but now it has been run down somewhat, just 3-4 journeys. And once there were services further east from Whitchurch on to Nantwich, these went some time ago. I can't see any likelihood of enhancements here.

 

[Statto]

There already are buses from Newtown to Shrewsbury.

Wrexham to Nantwich seems unlikely on the basis there are no major settlements between the two (except detouring via Whitchurch).

I doubt they'll ever be a Wrexham to Nantwich TrawsCymru service when most of the route is in England, & Holt is the only major place on that route too, & the other places are just tiny settlements.

 

[DaveHarries]

From the VOSA Bus Service registrations for 25th January 2023 come these two entries:

PG0000421/551 Registered (Short notice)
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lampeter to Aberystwyth Bus station via Aberaeron
Service number: T1
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Feb 2023

PG0000421/550 Registered (Short notice)
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lammas Street, Carmarthen to Lampeter via Pencader
Service number: T1
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Feb 2023

Exporting the day's entries as a CSV file (viewable on MS Excel) gives a bit more info and for those two entries, under "other details" it says merely "Sunday to Saturday". Wasn't it planned to split the route when the electric buses came in though?

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

T1S was Carmarthen to Swansea and no longer runs since covid.
T9 does not run anymore either.

However, that is not exhaustive just a quick observation!

The T1S indeed went with Covid. The collapse of passenger numbers at Cardiff Airport saw the T9 suspended - I guess it might come back though it was always slightly at odds with the TrawsCymru concept

Celtic Travels's trunk routes seem to be half-heartedly marketed as TrawsCymru Connect. These are:
X47 Aberystwyth - Llangurig - Rhayader - Llandrindod
X75 Shrewsbury - Welshpool - Newtown - Llanidloes - Llangurig
The two services each run two-hourly and connect at Llangurig, generally on the even hours, enhancing the network considerably in mid Wales.
The X75 combines with the T12 to provide a roughly hourly service (albeit via different routes) between Welshpool and Newtown (and on to Caersws).

While the X43 and 460 are mentioned on the TrawsCymru website, as noted above, the X47 and X75 are not. Politics? (Not going there....)

There was talk of a T22 Caernarfon - Porthmadog - Blaenau Ffestiniog with electric vehicles, seems to have gone quiet though. At one point this was going to link in with the T19, both to be run from an electric depot in or around Blaenau, but again gone quiet.

There is a service 146, run by Pat's Coaches, between Wrexham and Whitchurch via the delightful village of Bangor on Dee. At one point this was hourly (and quite busy) but now it has been run down somewhat, just 3-4 journeys. And once there were services further east from Whitchurch on to Nantwich, these went some time ago. I can't see any likelihood of enhancements here.

I believe the X47 and X75 are Powys CC tendered routes so they could be converted/absorbed into TrawsCymru in much the same way that the former 518 and D71 are now the T12. Arguably, the X75 has always felt more like a TC route though perhaps they are mindful that it does follow the Cambrian Main Line so might be perceived (wrongly) as being in competition!

I also remembered the T22 - the electric buses seem to have been delayed somewhat. One of the more curious TC ideas for a new route!

I doubt they'll ever be a Wrexham to Nantwich TrawsCymru service when most of the route is in England, & Holt is the only major place on that route too, & the other places are just tiny settlements.

Agreed. Sounds like an arbitrary picking of two places.

From the VOSA Bus Service registrations for 25th January 2023 come these two entries:

PG0000421/551 Registered (Short notice)
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lampeter to Aberystwyth Bus station via Aberaeron
Service number: T1
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Feb 2023

PG0000421/550 Registered (Short notice)
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lammas Street, Carmarthen to Lampeter via Pencader
Service number: T1
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Feb 2023

Exporting the day's entries as a CSV file (viewable on MS Excel) gives a bit more info and for those two entries, under "other details" it says merely "Sunday to Saturday". Wasn't it planned to split the route when the electric buses came in though?

Dave

TBH, I did think it strange that there was this suggestion that the route was to be curtailed (in some way) at Lampeter. Always thought it was someone getting confused over the 50km splitting of registrations. TC state on their press release that the new vehicles are for Aber to Carmarthen https://www.traveline.cymru/news/2022/11/07/new-electric-buses-for-trawscymru/

Transport for Wales revealed the first of the brand-new electric buses at Euro Bus Expo in the NEC, Birmingham this week.

A fleet of modern electric buses will be introduced on the TrawsCymru T1 route between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth in the new year and a new charging hub will open in Carmarthenshire with new facilities for drivers and the buses.

 

[Bwsbro]

From the VOSA Bus Service registrations for 25th January 2023 come these two entries:

PG0000421/551 Registered (Short notice)
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lampeter to Aberystwyth Bus station via Aberaeron
Service number: T1
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Feb 2023

PG0000421/550 Registered (Short notice)
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lammas Street, Carmarthen to Lampeter via Pencader
Service number: T1
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Feb 2023

Exporting the day's entries as a CSV file (viewable on MS Excel) gives a bit more info and for those two entries, under "other details" it says merely "Sunday to Saturday". Wasn't it planned to split the route when the electric buses came in though?

Dave

First always split the reg to get around driving hours rules. (All Traws routes except the T10 & T19 have split registrations) the registration of the service is only temporarily until the middle of March for when the new contract begins

 

[RELL6L]

Slightly tangential to the topic but Lloyds Coaches website has an excellent up-to-date map covering Mid-to-North Wales showing all their services and also quite a few more services in mid Wales and selected services up to the north coast and to Bangor. Includes T2, T3, T10, T12, T19 and also part of T1, T4, T5, T8, also X47, X75, Snowdon Sherpa services and many others. For anyone visiting the area its really useful and I don't recall having seen anything this good for this area for many years.

https://lloydscoaches.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/LCMapv7.pdf

 

[burns20]

Thank you for your kind words RELL6L

If anyone has any feedback on it please do

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

 

[RELL6L]

Thank you for your kind words RELL6L

If anyone has any feedback on it please do

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

As I said I think it is a very welcome addition to publicity in this area. I hope it is made more widely available.
Gwynedd at least produces bus timetables online, no other counties nearby even do this and no-one else produces any sort of map, no town plans anywhere.
As we know even Arriva's publicly available information is awful - although timetables do at least exist, for virtually everyone else it is Traveline or BusTimes.
Lloyds Coaches set a good example in terms of publicity with timetables on line plus this map and I've found them a very professional operation on the occasional times I have visited the area. Keep up the good work!
Now, if only all the routes live tracked....!

 

[burns20]

Fare Zone Maps are next in the pipeline for our daily and weekly tickets.

The tracking of all our services has been disrupted by TfW using our feed to supply their TrawsCymru App and we are looking at a workaround with Ticketer to enable this again

 

[WAB]

Thank you for your kind words RELL6L

If anyone has any feedback on it please do

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

Hello Daniel,

Might I suggest a 'continues to' note where routes go off the edge of the map like in the London & South East map giving primary destinations off the map (e.g., route 3 Pwllheli, T1 Aberaeron, Lampeter and Carmarthen etc.)?

A very smart and useful resource overall.

 

[burns20]

Hello Daniel,

Might I suggest a 'continues to' note where routes go off the edge of the map like in the London & South East map giving primary destinations off the map (e.g., route 3 Pwllheli, T1 Aberaeron, Lampeter and Carmarthen etc.)?

A very smart and useful resource overall.

It was tried to add destinations on but it looked cluttered as a result or font too small to fit on.

 

[RELL6L]

The tracking of all our services has been disrupted by TfW using our feed to supply their TrawsCymru App and we are looking at a workaround with Ticketer to enable this again

That's interesting. It appears that First Cymru, Llew Jones, Lloyds Coaches, M & H Coaches, Richards Bros and Tanat Valley vehicle only track on TrawsCymru services (and, for Tanat Valley, services into England) - including here the Richards 460. Are you saying that all your services actually track but, for some reason connected with TrawsCymru, other services don't show on BusTimes etc? That would be consistent with the same position for the other operators.

On the other hand Stagecoach and Newport Bus run TrawsCymru services and all their buses do track. Is there something different about them?

I'm a technophobe and certainly not an expert on the finer points of Ticketer but I do make great use of BusTimes live info when out on trips in England (and First Cymru was tracking when I visited last August), I do understand that providing this information isn't compulsory in Wales as it is in England, but it would be wonderful if all the operators mentioned above (plus Adventure Travel, Arriva and Cardiff who are already tracking in full, plus Celtic Travel, on for English routes) appeared online - and great if The Snowdonia network got added too!

 

[Dai Corner]

That's interesting. It appears that First Cymru, Llew Jones, Lloyds Coaches, M & H Coaches, Richards Bros and Tanat Valley vehicle only track on TrawsCymru services (and, for Tanat Valley, services into England) - including here the Richards 460. Are you saying that all your services actually track but, for some reason connected with TrawsCymru, other services don't show on BusTimes etc? That would be consistent with the same position for the other operators.

On the other hand Stagecoach and Newport Bus run TrawsCymru services and all their buses do track. Is there something different about them?

I'm a technophobe and certainly not an expert on the finer points of Ticketer but I do make great use of BusTimes live info when out on trips in England (and First Cymru was tracking when I visited last August), I do understand that providing this information isn't compulsory in Wales as it is in England, but it would be wonderful if all the operators mentioned above (plus Adventure Travel, Arriva and Cardiff who are already tracking in full, plus Celtic Travel, on for English routes) appeared online - and great if The Snowdonia network got added too!

I'm a technophile and was about to ask the same question.

Newport Transport use Ticketer and their TrawsCymru and non-TrawsCymru services track on their own website and Bustimes.org . TrawsCymru clearly use the same website provider as Newport Transport.

I'm sure the technical issues can't be insurmountable.

 

[markymark2000]

That's interesting. It appears that First Cymru, Llew Jones, Lloyds Coaches, M & H Coaches, Richards Bros and Tanat Valley vehicle only track on TrawsCymru services (and, for Tanat Valley, services into England) - including here the Richards 460. Are you saying that all your services actually track but, for some reason connected with TrawsCymru, other services don't show on BusTimes etc? That would be consistent with the same position for the other operators.

Basically, all of the TrawsCymru data comes from Passenger. When an operator has a website by Passenger or is on the MyTrip app (made by Passenger), 3rd party websites, such as bustimes, can access the live tracking data that is used to fuel the operators Passenger website and apps. It's not a case of these operators choosing to share their data with bustimes, it's a case that they are sharing this data with the TrawsCymru website and bustimes has found the SIRI feed and is using it for tracking.

One thing that Daniel may be able to answer though. Do you know if any other operators in the same situation as Lloyds? Wanting to share their tracking data for the rest of their routes but unable to do so because TfW are using the feed for the TrawsCymru website?

On the other hand Stagecoach and Newport Bus run TrawsCymru services and all their buses do track. Is there something different about them?

I do understand that providing this information isn't compulsory in Wales as it is in England, but it would be wonderful if all the operators mentioned above (plus Adventure Travel, Arriva and Cardiff who are already tracking in full, plus Celtic Travel, on for English routes) appeared online - and great if The Snowdonia network got added too!

This isn't all down to operators willingly jumping up and shouting 'Hey, here is our tracking data so everyone can make 3rd party apps for bus tracking', In some cases, bustimes has just been able to find the SIRI feed which is being used by operators to put live tracking onto their websites and apps.
In the case of Adventure Travel, their bus tracking comes from their BusHub website. Bustimes has found that feed and uses it to show the buses tracking on there.. You'll note, not all Adventure Travel routes track and it's the same routes which don't track on their website.
Arriva, their data comes willingly from Ticketer. Not sure why they opted to share all routes rather than just those that they legally had to. Unless it's the same feed which fuels their app. I'm not sure.
Cardiff Bus, their data comes from Passenger (the people who made their website and app). Bustimes found the feed and uses the same API to put Cardiff buses on the map.
Celtic Travel has done as much as they legally have to. It may be cost prohibitive for them to provide the live tracking for other routes.
Newport bus, not sure 100% how theirs works but I do know that with the exception of the 72, C4 and T7, their data comes from Passenger as that is who runs their website.
Stagecoach tracking data all comes from Stagecoach themselves using the same data that they use for their website and app tracking. From what I can see, Stagecoach data doesn't go to TrawsCymru as when you go to the T4, there is no tracking.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Realtime tracking data on Passenger websites comes from a Siri feed, all the website does is display it. The data originates from the ticket machine, and may go via a third party.

 

[Runningaround]

Fare Zone Maps are next in the pipeline for our daily and weekly tickets.

The tracking of all our services has been disrupted by TfW using our feed to supply their TrawsCymru App and we are looking at a workaround with Ticketer to enable this again

Still can't get the Day Tickets on the app for mobiles etc, and with the signal as vague as it is through a lot of Mid and North Wales, what fallback will passengers have if they have theirs on it and there isn't a signal?

The app needs to show more of local non Traws Cymru services that connect then more might use them to get on the T's and for train and bus combination fares. I've yet to see a point as none have been cheaper than a day ticket, perhaps they work (they used to when ARRIVA ran both and let you chose how to get back to Machynlleth from Aberystwyth with bus or train ticket)

 

[markymark2000]

Realtime tracking data on Passenger websites comes from a Siri feed, all the website does is display it. The data originates from the ticket machine, and may go via a third party.

I've edited my post. I was trying not to use too much techy words like the Siri feed as I know not everyone would know what I am on about. It was more explaining how some operators do show buses on bustimes but others don't.

 

[RELL6L]

I've edited my post. I was trying not to use too much techy words like the Siri feed as I know not everyone would know what I am on about. It was more explaining how some operators do show buses on bustimes but others don't.

Your explanation is helpful, thank you, I understood some of it. It sounds like many operators have the data but either choose not to share it (because they don't have to), or the feed to TrawsCymru somehow interferes with it.

Also off topic but of interest - slightly under the radar but Ceredigion cut some services at the beginning of January, reducing the 585 Aberystwyth to Lampeter via Tregaron service from 2 hourly to school journeys, a peak service into Aberystwyth and a shopping opportunity in Lampeter, also cutting services to some places in the inland hinterland east of Aberystwyth altogether. The 512 to Borth is reduced from hourly to 2-hourly (but there are now more trains!) while the 525 Llanidloes morning and evening journeys totally duplicating the X47 have, sensibly, been removed. The Lloyds Coaches map is really up to date and reflects these changes.

 

[burns20]

Yes our Siri feed is temporarily being used by TfW for their TrawsCymru App

Been promised we'll have all our buses tracking again by Easter when they give us our Siri feed back

 

[DaveHarries]

Looking at the VOSA Bus Service Registrations for the Wales region today these have appeared:

PG0000421/555 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Carmarthen Bus Station to Synod Inn, Ceredigion via Pencader
Service number: T1X
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

PG0000421/554 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Synod Inn, Ceredigion to Aberystwyth Bus Station via Aberaeron
Service number: T1X
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

PG0000421/553 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lampeter High Street to Aberystwyth Bus Station via Aberaeron
Service number: T1 (T1A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

PG0000421/552 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Carmarthen Bus Station to Lampeter High Street via Pencader
Service number: T1 (T1A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

I wonder what the differences will be between T1 and T1X and between T1 and T1A: the spreadsheet which comes up when you export the entries to a CSV file simply says that T1A is for Sundays and the T1X is Mondays to Saturdays (except Public Holidays). Anyone know any more?

Source via. search on https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...ch/find-registered-local-bus-services/browse/

Dave

 

[Bwsbro]

Looking at the VOSA Bus Service Registrations for the Wales region today these have appeared:

PG0000421/555 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Carmarthen Bus Station to Synod Inn, Ceredigion via Pencader
Service number: T1X
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

PG0000421/554 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Synod Inn, Ceredigion to Aberystwyth Bus Station via Aberaeron
Service number: T1X
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

PG0000421/553 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Lampeter High Street to Aberystwyth Bus Station via Aberaeron
Service number: T1 (T1A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

PG0000421/552 Registered
FIRST CYMRU BUSES LTD
Route: Carmarthen Bus Station to Lampeter High Street via Pencader
Service number: T1 (T1A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 26 Mar 2023

I wonder what the differences will be between T1 and T1X and between T1 and T1A: the spreadsheet which comes up when you export the entries to a CSV file simply says that T1A is for Sundays and the T1X is Mondays to Saturdays (except Public Holidays). Anyone know any more?

Dave

T1 will operate Daily,
T1X is a express positioning journey operating via the T1C route
T1A is planned operate via an alternative route between Aberystwyth and Lampeter.

 

[WAB]

From the MD of Newport Transport:

Unfortunately, we have an organisation that has been set up as the transport delivery agent for the Welsh Government. It operates rail services and is now looking to take over bus. In theory that sounds OK.

But after working with Transport for Wales (TfW) on many projects, it has become abundantly clear that it is a money pit of either very expensive consultants, or a bus team that has no buses to control – and simply cannot do so until the Welsh Government gets its bus services bill through, which may be in 2025/26.

Those employed in the main have no or little bus industry knowledge. That comes across very clearly. So why doesn’t TfW properly and transparently collaborate with the bus industry to solve the main problems facing it, with outcomes that suit the group that is left out of many decisions: The passenger?

Perhaps this goes some way to explain the flaws with TrawsCymru service planning delivery discussed in both this thread and its predecessor, although I accept that he is hardly a neutral figure given that his fiefdom may come under threat with a more powerful TfW.

 

[splashoutradio]

According to an update by local politician Janet Finch, Conwy County Council have issued the following statement regarding the T19 between Llandudno and Blaenau Ffestiniog.

In view of the extreme financial pressures that we face the council does not have the resources to subsidise this route. We have however contacted Conwy pupils who are affected to provide school transport and we will continue to explore the options of extending the successful Flexi service to mitigate some of the impact of the withdrawn service. We will continue to do all we can and I would like to thank the member for her ongoing work to encourage Welsh Government to look to provide further assistance.

Other than the above mention of Fflecsi, it does appear there's very little in the way of publicity on how the affected areas will be served once the route is withdrawn in a weeks time.