Trent Barton: what happened to ‘the really good bus company’?

[zkyx2]

what happened to TrentBarton.

Since 2019 TrentBarton has been in a massive decline, granted covid didn’t help but even before they were sliding.

It seems like the lack of competition has made TrentBarton to comfortable in letting passengers down continuously.

From vehicle fires, to vehicles shortages or blaming drivers for routes not running although it’s obvious it’s down to the lack of engineers TrentBarton actually has.

Maybe it’s time for some competition again, maybe that might sort Trent out…

 

[pm2304877]

Competition in bus services is a short term fix and a waste. Bus wars waste money and in times of staff shortage aren't going to happen. The future is in coordination and regulation not the fiascos of the 1990s.
The repeal of the malign 1985 Transport Act and it's ethos is long overdue and should have happened under the Blair Brown era Labour admin.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

what happened to TrentBarton.

Since 2019 TrentBarton has been in a massive decline, granted covid didn’t help but even before they were sliding.

it seems like the lack of competition has made TrentBarton to comfortable in letting passengers down continuously.

From vehicle fires, to vehicles shortages or blaming drivers for routes not running although it’s obvious it’s down to the lack of engineers TrentBarton actually has.

Maybe it’s time for some competition again, maybe that might sort Trent out…

Erm.... I think it was the competition that was the problem.

TrentBarton was happily investing in their business, hiving off the less sustainable bits to Notts & Derby. Interestingly, during the 1990s, they'd largely been protected from direct competition as both Nottingham and Derby firms had to deal with incursions. However, Premiere and more importantly, Yourbus then entered the competitive fray and that reduced the funds for fleet replacement etc.

I might also suggest that TM Travel was a purchase that has proven to be trickier than anticipated. It seems squashed between a fitter leaner First and an always strong Stagecoach so it's on the margins (literally) of decent territory.

They do seem to be struggling for drivers and maintenance staff, and why that is, I can't suggest a reason.

Competition in bus services is a short term fix and a waste. Bus wars waste money and in times of staff shortage aren't going to happen. The future is in coordination and regulation not the fiascos of the 1990s.
The repeal of the malign 1985 Transport Act and it's ethos is long overdue and should have happened under the Blair Brown era Labour admin.

Hmmm..... not certain how old you are but do you remember how bus patronage was soaring in the 1970s and 1980s?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The loss of Alex Hornby. While I get that he's not everyone's cup of tea, he is one of the few UK bus senior managers who has a genuine eye for quality. When he comes to any operation that quality starts, and when he leaves it's handed over to the more common bare-minimum bean-counting management and the quality ends again.

It is a shame we can't clone him.

 

[M803UYA]

Competition in bus services is a short term fix and a waste. Bus wars waste money and in times of staff shortage aren't going to happen. The future is in coordination and regulation not the fiascos of the 1990s.
The repeal of the malign 1985 Transport Act and it's ethos is long overdue and should have happened under the Blair Brown era Labour admin.

There is the converse view, which is competition encourages innovation and makes the incumbent operator think twice about shafting the customer.

I used to live somewhere which persisted in an exact fare system on it's buses. Stagecoach came along, competing on the same routes and gave change. Guess who I travelled with? I'd argue an exact fare system is a hangover of the 1970s and is a significant barrier to people travelling on buses. It exists to benefit the operator not the customer.

I'm not quite old enough to remember the wonderful NBC but I do have copies of bus timetables from that period. I can do some comparisons between those, the early/mid/late 1990s, the early 2000s and now. We saw an increase in frequencies provided on the busiest corridors. Funnily enough, passenger numbers increased when the service was made more attractive. Prior to deregulation, a more comprehensive service was provided to the area in question, but at the expense of overall frequency. Effectively, the same assets were redeployed to where the passengers actually were. This in the days before modern systems which can tell you if the customer has broken wind onboard the bus and what the driver had for their tea last night.

Trent for years promoted quality - it's true it's lost it's way in recent years. I don't see any further benefits from deregulation to be had, though and perhaps we've arrived at a time where the long term funding and structure of the bus industry needs to be revisited. If you're going to do that with significant sums of public money then perhaps not unreasonably there'll be strings attached. I would say the Premiere incursion helped the company longer term as it generated passenger number increases. Competition normally does as one by product is the improvement of frequency. So I wouldn't say Premiere contributed to the current decline of Trent having it's issues as they went 10 years ago.

Would TM going improve their current problems? It would be one less set of problems to deal with as the operation is on the edges of the main business. Who would take on that work in place of them? High Peak? Stagecoach?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used to live somewhere which persisted in an exact fare system on it's buses. Stagecoach came along, competing on the same routes and gave change. Guess who I travelled with? I'd argue an exact fare system is a hangover of the 1970s and is a significant barrier to people travelling on buses. It exists to benefit the operator not the customer.

In the days when the norm was to pay a cash* single fare for every trip, then it also benefitted the customer by speeding boarding and thus the whole journey, as well as benefitting the driver by reducing assaults and the operator by reducing thefts.

It's been rather superseded by other faster-than-giving-change options like tap on/off contactless etc.

* Even given that with the £2 scheme we've returned temporarily to singles being the norm, most of them aren't now paid cash, and as £2 is a round number people who are paying cash will generally pay exact change anyway.

 

[edwin_m]

Erm.... I think it was the competition that was the problem.

TrentBarton was happily investing in their business, hiving off the less sustainable bits to Notts & Derby. Interestingly, during the 1990s, they'd largely been protected from direct competition as both Nottingham and Derby firms had to deal with incursions. However, Premiere and more importantly, Yourbus then entered the competitive fray and that reduced the funds for fleet replacement etc.

TB has generally faced less competition than might be expected, looking at how their network overlaps that of other operators. The Nottingham and Derby city operators have generally kept themselves to the short-distance market, and other than Derby the major groups don't have a significant presence. Yourbus and Premiere have been gone for some years, and my impression is that TB's decline set in after that. Yourbus was mainly targeting NCT and Arriva Derby, with the only major attacks on TB being the Y4 which (according to Wikipedia) lasted less than a year and the Y5 which didn't last much longer.

Hmmm..... not certain how old you are but do you remember how bus patronage was soaring in the 1970s and 1980s?

Which continued after deregulation, the main exceptions being London and places such as Nottingham that were shielded from the full effects by measures such as continued municipal ownership and operators like TB who usually didn't try to compete head to head.

 

[Simon75]

I used 2 Trent Barton buses last week, the Comet from Chesterfield to Derby and Swift from Derby to Uttoxeter.
Buses were between 10-15 years old,but seemed to be in good condition only grop. Both services operate hourly.
The Swift get busiest between Derby and Ashbourne

 

[Open top 80]

I used 2 Trent Barton buses last week, the Comet from Chesterfield to Derby and Swift from Derby to Uttoxeter.
Buses were between 10-15 years old,but seemed to be in good condition only grop. Both services operate hourly.
The Swift get busiest between Derby and Ashbourne

I can remember when the Ashbourne to Derby bus was double decker route (107) with no Sunday service back in the 90s

 

[Teapot42]

There is the converse view, which is competition encourages innovation and makes the incumbent operator think twice about shafting the customer.

...

Would TM going improve their current problems? It would be one less set of problems to deal with as the operation is on the edges of the main business. Who would take on that work in place of them? High Peak? Stagecoach?

One problem with competition is that it can, perversely, increase the cost for passengers. Many operators have their own network tickets, but if you need to use multiple operators for one journey then costs can go up. Chesterfield is a case in point here, Stagecoach have dropped a number of services which Hulleys have taken up, but anyone who needs to go say from Holymoorside to Sheffield it costs you more than when Stagecoach ran the 91 (and peak X17s). Another operator coming in to an area won't duplicate the whole network, just parts and that is where the issue arises. In PTE areas there is often an all-operators ticket, but away from that these are either non-existent or so expensive they aren't really a viable alternative.

I do wonder what the point of TM is. It seems a dumping ground for all Wellglade's old buses and aside from a few core services, just picks up the odd contract when it has spare resources, often well away from Halfway, meaning long dead runs. I'd say there is benefit for another operator to take over and run it properly, maybe make more of a presence in the area. I hate to say it, but maybe it would combine well with Hulleys - under new ownership. Stagecoach would never take the work on, they pull out of anything that doesn't deliver a clear profit with little to no effort. One operator we don't have a local presence for of course is Go Ahead...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yourbus and Premiere have been gone for some years, and my impression is that TB's decline set in after that. Yourbus was mainly targeting NCT and Arriva Derby, with the only major attacks on TB being the Y4 which (according to Wikipedia) lasted less than a year and the Y5 which didn't last much longer.

Yourbus went in late 2019 (I know it seems longer) and then you have Covid era. To be honest, the decline was evident by that point. Fairly certain that the Y1 was operating against TB from Heanor to Derby up until the end, running every 15 mins IIRC. Not certain that the Y3 and Y5 weren't also still running at that point too, and that the targeting of Arriva was a last flail from them.

I do wonder what the point of TM is. It seems a dumping ground for all Wellglade's old buses and aside from a few core services, just picks up the odd contract when it has spare resources, often well away from Halfway, meaning long dead runs. I'd say there is benefit for another operator to take over and run it properly, maybe make more of a presence in the area. I hate to say it, but maybe it would combine well with Hulleys - under new ownership. Stagecoach would never take the work on, they pull out of anything that doesn't deliver a clear profit with little to no effort.

I'd say Stagecoach has been very active in taking on tendered work across the UK. Whether they have the staff to take anything on from Chesterfield or Sheffield, I don't know

 

[cnjb8]

I would put the start of their downfall at 2019, it was the first year in a while where Wellglade didn't make a profit. This coincided with Yourbus collapsing and Covid. The main problem now is engineering, they can't seem to run a reliable service unfortunately.

I also think TB really lost their personal touch. They used to hold launch events for new fleets and had an enthusiast section on their website. Schemes like mango and zigzag really made them look modern and forward thinking, and that attitude seems to be lacking now.

Didn't TM operate the largest amount of Derbyshire CC contracts when it was purchased at the time? Either way their fleet size has decreased significantly

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also think TB really lost their personal touch. They used to hold launch events for new fleets and had an enthusiast section on their website. Schemes like mango and zigzag really made them look modern and forward thinking, and that attitude seems to be lacking now.

All that customer-focused type stuff was driven by Alex Hornby. We've just reverted to bog-standard "do what we can get away with" bus management.

The exact same thing will happen to Transdev Lancashire. The sparkle will appear at McGill's instead.

It's quite amazing that he literally seems to be the only one with that marketing-first, customer-first attitude in near enough the entire industry. You can argue about whether you like Stenning liveries and interiors or not, but whoever does the artwork it's the whole attitude that makes the difference.

 

[MotCO]

All that customer-focused type stuff was driven by Alex Hornby. We've just reverted to bog-standard "do what we can get away with" bus management.

The exact same thing will happen to Transdev Lancashire. The sparkle will appear at McGill's instead.

It's quite amazing that he literally seems to be the only one with that marketing-first, customer-first attitude in near enough the entire industry. You can argue about whether you like Stenning liveries and interiors or not, but whoever does the artwork it's the whole attitude that makes the difference.

Martin Gilbjert was another, but he is now at Lumo. Add James Freeman to the mix but he has now retired. So yes where are the new leading lights who have a keen interest in the bus industry?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

All that customer-focused type stuff was driven by Alex Hornby. We've just reverted to bog-standard "do what we can get away with" bus management.

The exact same thing will happen to Transdev Lancashire. The sparkle will appear at McGill's instead.

It's quite amazing that he literally seems to be the only one with that marketing-first, customer-first attitude in near enough the entire industry. You can argue about whether you like Stenning liveries and interiors or not, but whoever does the artwork it's the whole attitude that makes the difference.

Don't know about that. Remember that initiatives like the Rainbow routes and Passenger Charters came about in the early 1990s.

As for TB, I've not seen the revision to the mean. Still streets ahead of most bus companies. More a business that had to contend with Premiere (yes, we're talking about 2009-2013 but it reduced their ability to invest in the fleet) and Yourbus and that meant an older fleet than they had. That, and a struggle to recruit and retain drivers and maintenance staff.

 

[markymark2000]

Martin Gilbjert was another, but he is now at Lumo. Add James Freeman to the mix but he has now retired. So yes where are the new leading lights who have a keen interest in the bus industry?

The industry doesn't want these kinds of people really. The marketing first, customers first style of management often tend to do things their own way and rebel a bit against the management who own the company (CEOs in buses tend to still have to answer to someone higher up in a PLC group or the owner who may be distant). PLC Groups and owners want boot lickers, not rebels. Even if the rebels could generate more revenue and profits in the longer term, what they care about it having people doing as they say, not doing their own thing, even if that is beneficial.

The marketing and customer first managers also struggle to work in these companies anymore as it's full of micromanagers. Speaking to people in one area of a PLC operator, the local MD was told he had to withdraw a route even though it was growing and and was a few months away from viability. All because it didn't hit viability in the timeframe that they wanted. The new route was expansion into a new area and could have led to much bigger things such as just a year later, a major company in that area ceased trading and it could have made the route even more popular.

 

[Teapot42]

I'd say Stagecoach has been very active in taking on tendered work across the UK. Whether they have the staff to take anything on from Chesterfield or Sheffield, I don't know

I don't know about elsewhere, but from what I've seen their Modus Operandii seems to be to threaten to withdraw a service unless the local authority coughs up. They've taken on some BSIP work in Chesterfield/Derbyshire (Sheffield didn't get BSIP money) but that's led to cancellations on their existing network and now withdrawal of the services that had suffered the worst cancellations due to 'low usage'.

Before BSIP I can only really think of them taking on the 65 (Sheffield to Buxton) when no-one else wanted it and I suspect the council will have had to pay a nice premium to get them to work a service fairly remote from the depot.

 

[richard13]

The bus industry in general is suffering from a lack of passengers (still only 80%), staff, spare parts, etc. coupled with the high cost of most things. The game today is survival or reducing the decline. Many small companies have given up bus work and concentrate on contracts and private hire or sold out to the big groups and often take retirement.

Fancy promotions, competition etc. is just not going to happen unless public money is available and that will come through franchising.

When petrol cars start to decline in number, petrol stations close and people find that the cost of electric cars and difficulty of charging them starts to hit, then public transport will bounce back and promotions, competition will be back in.

The world moves in cycles, but also moves on. TrentBarton are in the same world as everyone else.

 

[M803UYA]

The industry doesn't want these kinds of people really. The marketing first, customers first style of management often tend to do things their own way and rebel a bit against the management who own the company (CEOs in buses tend to still have to answer to someone higher up in a PLC group or the owner who may be distant). PLC Groups and owners want boot lickers, not rebels. Even if the rebels could generate more revenue and profits in the longer term, what they care about it having people doing as they say, not doing their own thing, even if that is beneficial.

The marketing and customer first managers also struggle to work in these companies anymore as it's full of micromanagers. Speaking to people in one area of a PLC operator, the local MD was told he had to withdraw a route even though it was growing and and was a few months away from viability. All because it didn't hit viability in the timeframe that they wanted. The new route was expansion into a new area and could have led to much bigger things such as just a year later, a major company in that area ceased trading and it could have made the route even more popular.

I feel you do need those kinds of people in the industry, but their core skill set isn't controlling costs. This is what's presently needed in the industry. It's no coincidence that the marketing first management firms (Trent Barton/Go North East/Transdev Blazefield) are the ones with issues and in a position where they need to consolidate.

In a climate like this the likes of Arriva should do well.......yeah I should stop there

Would Wellglade disposing of TM help the operation overall? Sheffield is a fairly decent market for buses, and TM is on the periphery of that. It could take on additional side road work from larger operators which would spread the overhead costs amongst more vehicles.

 

[JD2168]

One problem with competition is that it can, perversely, increase the cost for passengers. Many operators have their own network tickets, but if you need to use multiple operators for one journey then costs can go up. Chesterfield is a case in point here, Stagecoach have dropped a number of services which Hulleys have taken up, but anyone who needs to go say from Holymoorside to Sheffield it costs you more than when Stagecoach ran the 91 (and peak X17s). Another operator coming in to an area won't duplicate the whole network, just parts and that is where the issue arises. In PTE areas there is often an all-operators ticket, but away from that these are either non-existent or so expensive they aren't really a viable alternative.

I do wonder what the point of TM is. It seems a dumping ground for all Wellglade's old buses and aside from a few core services, just picks up the odd contract when it has spare resources, often well away from Halfway, meaning long dead runs. I'd say there is benefit for another operator to take over and run it properly, maybe make more of a presence in the area. I hate to say it, but maybe it would combine well with Hulleys - under new ownership. Stagecoach would never take the work on, they pull out of anything that doesn't deliver a clear profit with little to no effort. One operator we don't have a local presence for of course is Go Ahead...

Most of the routes TM have taken on is stuff First & Stagecoach don’t want. They are struggling for drivers with journeys getting dropped on routes on a regular basis. The ex Lothian E400’s seem a poor purchase at the moment with low amounts seen in service & some still with paper in the window for a blind with still 19-20 year old Solos & Scania Solar’s rattling around yet they somehow don’t get affected by the Clean Air zone in Sheffield.

The presentation of TM vehicles has really gone downhill since Wellglade took over as there used to be a livery which was smart & suited the vehicles. It now seems to be what the previous route & vehicle branding & livery was at Trent Barton or Notts & Derby. There is one Scania (FH54VRY) which is TM Red on the front & Skylink blue on the rest. One of the Omnidekka’s has never been repainted from Notts & Derby livery. The Amberline Solo’s former branding is clearly visible as well.

It overall feels like an unloved company with an ownership that either doesn’t want it or does not know what to do with it.

 

[Mugby]

On their social media sites TrentBarton say 'We are proud to be The Really Good Bus Company'

Now if I remember correctly, that was a tagline invented by their image consultants; Best Impressions. so who awarded them this accolade? Why, they awarded it themselves - and therein lies the problem. They have convinced themselves that the claim is true and they seem to think that by hammering the message everywhere, on vehicles, in all publicity etc., that everyone else will believe it. The truth is that they are anything but the really good bus company and it's a patronising insult to their long suffering passengers to claim otherwise.

Next month marks two years since the regular daily cancellations started, TWO YEARS! and it continues with no sign of any improvement. I live in the heart of TrentBarton land and on too many occasions I've been caught out with a cancelled journey and it's not nice on a cold winter evening.
The daily lists of cancellations were discontinued because the adverse comments had run into several thousands and the company wanted to stop them because it wasn't good for their image.

I've even considered making a formal complaint to the Traffic Commissioners but it's not an easy process, actually the TCs ought to be taking a serious look at the company, it's maintenance standards and it's continual failure to operate it's advertised timetables. A fundamental investigation is needed.
It seems to me that TrentBarton are so obsessed with image, they pay no attention to detail or the things that really matter!

 

[JMcD99]

I’ve also noticed an incredibly sharp decline over the past few years.

For example, the way they handle social media. I’ve found the social media team on occasion to be untruthful (likely to be toeing the company line), or completely unknowledgeable about what the customer asks. Similarly, there seems to be a disregard for advising of cancellations or late notice issues, with customers directed to the woeful Hugo app. They refuse to update Facebook with disruption changes ‘due to the algorithm’ - something that Nottingham City Transport can handle extremely well.

I think this sharp decline can also be attributed to Kinchbus too, they doubled the frequency of the 5, 9, 11, and 12 on 24/09/2023. Surprisingly, this was promoted with less than 5 days notice which to me seems strange, in comparison to previous years.
However, they don’t have the resources to fulfil the new timetable! Already this week, the 9 has run hourly due to lack of available buses.

Personally, I think the overall decline of Wellglade in the past few years has been a great shame.

 

[ChrisC]

The sad thing is that TrentBarton was always a well respected local bus company, but it’s rapidly losing passengers respect and loyalty in areas that were once its heartland. Going back many years when there was a depot in Hucknall they were really part of the community, but now Hucknall people don’t have many good words to say about them. Cutting the evening and Sunday buses from the Hucknall Connect route has really inconvenienced people living on many of the Hucknall estates. Some of these large estates on the west side of Hucknall are up to 2 miles away from the town centre. Yet at the same time they are running the 35 to Papplewick Green and Vaughan Estates to the east of the town even on Sundays. I’ve never seen more than 2 passengers on the 35 and it regularly runs the whole route with no passengers on board!

This time last year in addition to withdrawing evening and Sunday services from the Connect route, they withdrew from operating the 141, withdrew the Amberline through service to Derby, and have recently cut evening and Sunday services from the 90 between Mansfield and Ripley. Cutting and reorganising the Amberline and Black Cat has left people in Eastwood Langley Mill and Horsley with no through bus to Derby. When making these cuts passengers were told that they were unsustainable and that probably is true. However, they also stated that cutting these routes would enable them to resource their other services to improve reliability. Tell that now to the people of Hucknall and elsewhere along the Threes route which now seems to have more cancellations than ever.

 

[Andyh82]

The loss of Alex Hornby. While I get that he's not everyone's cup of tea, he is one of the few UK bus senior managers who has a genuine eye for quality. When he comes to any operation that quality starts, and when he leaves it's handed over to the more common bare-minimum bean-counting management and the quality ends again.

It is a shame we can't clone him.

Alex Hornby left Trent Barton in 2015, many years before things started to decline

I imagine it’s just a case of COVID, lower passenger numbers since COVID, and rising costs, for a small company that is hardly likely to be making massive profits, meaning they are finding it tough

I would probably guess driving jobs are in high demand in the East Midlands. You only have to look at the number of massive distribution centres at the side of the M1 in that part of the world

 

[borage]

I wonder if they'll ever reconsider their quirky policy of only using single deckers (I'm not sure how many of their routes have low bridges). I understand that it was based on customer research showing a preference for being able to see the driver, and double deckers cost more to buy and run etc, but drivers are in short supply

 

[Llandudno]

One problem with competition is that it can, perversely, increase the cost for passengers. Many operators have their own network tickets, but if you need to use multiple operators for one journey then costs can go up. Chesterfield is a case in point here, Stagecoach have dropped a number of services which Hulleys have taken up, but anyone who needs to go say from Holymoorside to Sheffield it costs you more than when Stagecoach ran the 91 (and peak X17s). Another operator coming in to an area won't duplicate the whole network, just parts and that is where the issue arises. In PTE areas there is often an all-operators ticket, but away from that these are either non-existent or so expensive they aren't really a viable alternative.

I do wonder what the point of TM is. It seems a dumping ground for all Wellglade's old buses and aside from a few core services, just picks up the odd contract when it has spare resources, often well away from Halfway, meaning long dead runs. I'd say there is benefit for another operator to take over and run it properly, maybe make more of a presence in the area. I hate to say it, but maybe it would combine well with Hulleys - under new ownership. Stagecoach would never take the work on, they pull out of anything that doesn't deliver a clear profit with little to no effort. One operator we don't have a local presence for of course is Go Ahead...

The new Derbyshire ‘bus only’ Wayfarer for £8 covers all bus operators in Derbyshire plus buses from Derbyshire into Sheffield.

Holymoorside/Walton to Sheffield via Chesterfield for £8 return is decent enough value when the £2 single bus fare is upped to £2.50 from November and even more so if ‘normal’ fares are reintroduced by the Labour Party in November 2024….

 

[Qwerty133]

The other big one is the abstract refusal to operate deckers which means they require significantly more drivers than other companies transporting a comparable number of passengers and have nothing to cascade to the groups secondary operations meaning they have to regularly purchase mid life vehicles at retail value.
They could get away with both of these impacts when drivers were plentiful and relatively cheap and there was always a constant supply of decent quality midlife vehicles on the market but now drivers are much harder to come by and wages are being pushed upwards and companies are holding onto vehicles for longer both impacts will have added significant unplanned costs onto the groups operation.

 

[Teapot42]

The new Derbyshire ‘bus only’ Wayfarer for £8 covers all bus operators in Derbyshire plus buses from Derbyshire into Sheffield.

Holymoorside/Walton to Sheffield via Chesterfield for £8 return is decent enough value when the £2 single bus fare is upped to £2.50 from November and even more so if ‘normal’ fares are reintroduced by the Labour Party in November 2024….

Compared to £5.60 for the Stagecoach Silver Megarider, that's not great value. Stagecoach also offer weekly and monthly - the weekly Stagecoach offering at £19 compares even better to the Weekly Wayfarer at £33 - and those are 'Introductory' prices - not sure how long they'll stay that low. At £67/72 for the monthly ticket Stagecoach wins out massively - and, at least for now, their tickets are also valid on the tram, and even after that if you work away from the Interchange area you can use their other buses, something the Wayfarer doesn't allow.

Stagecoach also used to offer until fairly recently a ticket valid for so many days within a fixed period, aimed at those who worked from home part of the week. That seems to have disappeared which is a shame as it seemed a good idea. Many people I know (myself included) are only in the office 2 or 3 days a week, so such a ticket helps keep your costs down while tying you to using the bus rather then driving. Many, if faced with the choice of paying for several daily ticket or not getting value from a weekly one would just choose to drive instead.

The other big one is the abstract refusal to operate deckers which means they require significantly more drivers than other companies transporting a comparable number of passengers

There are pros and cons to that though. Stagecoach are moving to using more deckers in Chesterfield and using the extra capacity as a reason to reduce service frequencies. While a route might be able to carry the same number of passengers per hour, having a reduced frequency makes it less appealing and is enough to get some off the bus and back in to their car.

 

[GusB]

The topic of the thread is trentbarton - let's not drift too far, please.

 

[duncombec]

This is an interesting thread, not because I use TrentBarton very often (in fact, never), but because it shows how localised bus use often is, and how those seeking a "one size fits all" option for buses may come unstuck.

Many of the issues being experienced now in TrentBartonLand, by the sounds of it, are those that have been affecting many other companies for years - not just during and since Covid, but over a much longer term, although there is no doubt that Covid has exacerbated things. That's not to say that Trent's users should just 'suck it up', but if it is affecting a company generally considered one of the better ones, imagine how things are at those companies held in far lesser regard. Even a 'good' employer can suffer if a 'better' employer is in the same area, as appears to be suggested upthread with the businesses at and around East Midlands Airport.

It's not just a driver and passenger shortage, but engineering issues as well. There is no doubt that engineering supply chains continue to be quite badly affected, certainly anything containing parts 'made in China' still seems to be suffering negative effects. A significant number of vehicles of one type may have a greater effect than a more varied fleet, especially as Trent seem to favour large depots, rather than having many smaller depots where one might be able to borrow a part in stock at another.

You cannot report directly to the Traffic Commissioners (TC). You can try the company, then BusUsersUK, then the Traffic Commissioner, or via the local authority. However, even if you succeed, as I understand it the TC's aren't keen on hammering bus companies for this sort of thing at the moment: they know if they do one, they'll have to call half of the operators in the country to a public inquiry in fairness, if they cut licenses or fine operators it will only have a negative effect. Likewise as I understand it, a company just has to show they are taking mitigating measures to solve the situation - detailing the driver training currently ongoing and past service cuts are likely to be considered acceptable attempts.

More generally though - with all the talk of Alex Hornby, could it not be more likely that the retirement (assuming it took place) of Jeff Counsell earlier this year have something to do with it, even if just whilst the new person (himself a long term Trent employee) finds his feet?