TRIVIA - big town, little platforms

[SuspectUsual]

I’ve just been on a 4 car train on the Manchester - Todmorden - Blackburn route and there were announcements that only 3 cars would fit in the platform at Burnley Manchester Road.

For the principal station in a decent sized (~90,000 population) town this seems somehow insufficient.

Are there other examples of the main station in big towns having such short platforms? Obviously Stourbridge for one…..

 

[The Planner]

I’ve just been on a 4 car train on the Manchester - Todmorden - Blackburn route and there were announcements that only 3 cars would fit in the platform at Burnley Manchester Road.

For the principal station in a decent sized (~90,000 population) town this seems somehow insufficient.

Are there other examples of the main station in big towns having such short platforms? Obviously Stourbridge for one…..

Depends on the train length. Burnley Manchester Road are 95m and 99m long. 100m platforms are pretty common place.

 

[AndyW33]

Of course Burnley Manchester Road has only become the principal station in Burnley quite recently in railway terms. For most of the 20th century, the main station was Burnley Central. Manchester Road is on the Copy Pit line, and scheduled passenger service on that route declined to the stage where eventually there was one train each way a week (though excursions, Wakes Week specials and large amounts of freight also ran) and Manchester Road closed to passengers in 1961 and the platforms were demolished. So when in 1984 British Rail introduced a regular service between Leeds and Blackpool via the Copy Pit line, there was nowhere near the centre of Burnley it could stop - Rose Grove being the nearest possible station call. As a result a quick and dirty fix provided timber-built platforms at the Manchester Road site in 1986, but these were specified for the trains then using the route - four car sets were not anticipated, and the Manchester-Todmorden-Blackburn service was nearly 30 years in the future

 

[Parallel]

Worcester Foregate Street is located right in the city centre, but I think can only fit 6(?) carriages on the platforms so seems quite short compared to other cities and large towns in the area. Obviously it does have Worcester Shrub Hill too where the platforms are longer though.

 

[paddy1]

Lincoln (St Marks) and Grimsby Town spring to mind. Used to be served by full length intercity trains to Kings Cross that were too long to fit on the platform. I think Lincoln (Central) is still served by at least one 9 coach Azuma a day to Kings Cross (as already mentioned elsewhere by another contributor), and by the daily Manchester to Harwich boat trains decades ago, which are/were too long to fit on any of the platforms? Possibly a 6 car 185 is too long to fit on the platform at Grimsby Town, also?

 

[Birmingham]

Worcester Foregate Street is located right in the city centre, but I think can only fit 6(?) carriages on the platforms so seems quite short compared to other cities and large towns in the area. Obviously it does have Worcester Shrub Hill too where the platforms are longer though.

5 coaches of a 9 coach IET are platformed at Worcester Foregate Street. Many trains over the route are only operated by short IETs though, and I think all regional trains fit (3-6 carriages).

(There are indeed many short platforms on the entire Cotswold line — try travelling from Oxford to Hereford on a 9-coach in the peak! — but that doesn't fit the OP's criteria.)

 

[43055]

Lincoln (St Marks) and Grimsby Town spring to mind. Used to be served by full length intercity trains to Kings Cross that were too long to fit on the platform. I think Lincoln (Central) is still served by at least one 9 coach Azuma a day to Kings Cross (as already mentioned elsewhere by another contributor), and by the daily Manchester to Harwich boat trains decades ago, which are/were too long to fit on any of the platforms? Possibly a 6 car 185 is too long to fit on the platform at Grimsby Town, also?

Typically just 5 car 800's on the Lincoln services now although a 9 car can pop up from time to time. Does a 9 car have to stop over the crossing when it arrives from London etc or does it pull down so only the middle/rear is on the platform?

 

[satisnek]

Worcester Foregate Street is located right in the city centre, but I think can only fit 6(?) carriages on the platforms so seems quite short compared to other cities and large towns in the area. Obviously it does have Worcester Shrub Hill too where the platforms are longer though.

Presumably back in the day Foregate Street was only a local station and the Malvern route was only a local line (with single track tunnels). Shrub Hill has traditionally been Worcester's 'main line' station.

5 coaches of a 9 coach IET are platformed at Worcester Foregate Street. Many trains over the route are only operated by short IETs though, and I think all regional trains fit (3-6 carriages).

(There are indeed many short platforms on the entire Cotswold line — try travelling from Oxford to Hereford on a 9-coach in the peak! — but that doesn't fit the OP's criteria.)

Is it 5 or 5½ coaches? Does SDO go down to half a coach? I thought I boarded Coach D yesterday morning but it could have been the adjacent door of Coach E. Whereas HSTs used to 'stick out' at the Shrub Hill end regardless of direction of travel, nowadays it would appear to be always the rear end of the train which isn't platformed. Anyway, I made my way through the train to Coach A and can now say that I've walked across Foregate Street Bridge But yes, after Worcestershire Parkway I was well off every platform until Oxford! Obviously it would make sense to limit all Cotswold & Malvern Line services to 5 car units but having experienced the sheer chaos which is Oxford station nowadays, the last thing it needs is trains being divided and joined!

Grimsby Town has always been problematic, being squashed in between two level crossings. Didn't the London-Cleethorpes loco-hauled services obstruct both of them while calling there?

 

[jimm]

Is it 5 or 5½ coaches? Does SDO go down to half a coach? I thought I boarded Coach D yesterday morning but it could have been the adjacent door of Coach E. Whereas HSTs used to 'stick out' at the Shrub Hill end regardless of direction of travel, nowadays it would appear to be always the rear end of the train which isn't platformed. Anyway, I made my way through the train to Coach A and can now say that I've walked across Foregate Street Bridge But yes, after Worcestershire Parkway I was well off every platform until Oxford! Obviously it would make sense to limit all Cotswold & Malvern Line services to 5 car units but having experienced the sheer chaos which is Oxford station nowadays, the last thing it needs is trains being divided and joined!

No, it would not make sense to limit Cotswold services to 5-car units. The services worked by 9-car sets (only about a fifth of the timetable anyway) are provided for a reason, ie passenger loadings at those times.

And the platforms at the main stations between Oxford and Worcester were extended at the end of 2018 to take seven 26m coaches, except for Kingham, where the bridge at the south end and a culvert under the tracks at the north end mean they only take six coaches.

All in all, it is now a far better state of affairs than prevailed with HSTs, eg five out of eight coaches were off the platform at Hanborough and on the Worcester-bound side at Honeybourne.

 

[satisnek]

Fair enough. It's refreshing to hear that passenger loadings do indeed warrant 9 car units at certain times of day (the HSTs of old never appeared to be very busy beyond Oxford, while the brief period of Class 180 operation seemed ideal for the line). It has been around 5 years since I previously used the route and I certainly agree that it's now far better with a much-improved service.