Trivia: Britain's Strangest Bus Routes

[86247]

yeah see what u mean crosville journey's were every 2 hours so that's 5 journey's a day for them with the short working from runcorn bus station, looks like i was a tad unlucky to see one.

 

[madannie77]

(snip)
But how about this one? This is from the 3 July 1977 Crosville 'English area' book:

View attachment 77467

There is nothing to suggest this was part of a joint operation, and I freely admit I don't know. Does anyone out there know?

The route number 216 suggested Lancashire United to me, as all their works services were numbered in the 200 series.

Sure enough, a May 1973 LUT timetable has a group of works services to Risley from various places, all numbered 216. One of these is from Haydock, Vista Road, with timings very similar to the Crosville route 216 above.

In 1973 & 1974 agreements were made between GMPTE, MPTE, Lancashire United, Ribble and Crosville to exchange various mileage agreements between the operators. I think that the transfer of this route might have been one of the outcomes of this, although I have no way of telling for certain.

 

[Statto]

Yes. It was a complex agreement, but basically Crosville ran some workings on the route until the closure of Edge Lane depot. For more details on this and other joint agreements, I fully recommend the 1992 book 'Crosville on Merseyside' by T B Maund. ISBN 0 86317 168 0.

I have that Crosville On Merseyside & Liverpool Transport Vol 5 books, Ribble did operate buses on the 89, Ribble had an 8% share on the 89, & they took over Crosvilles journey's when Crosville Liverpool depot moved from Edge Lane to Love Lane, as Crosville fellt the 89 was too uneconomical to run from Love Lane. Ribble operated the 89 from Wigan depot, but solved driver changeover issues by interworking the 89 with the 352/362, only a couple of last services ran dead back to Wigan

 

[Statto]

Not so much as strange route but strange numbers, as i find some of TrentBarton numbers quite strange like 6.1, 6.2

 

[PeterC]

I seem to recall some odd routes that only used to run on Llanrwst market and fair days only. I think that meant it ran every Tuesday, except on those weeks when there was a fair (the first week in the month?), when it would run on Wednesday. I remember once trying to catch one of these buses, to Penmachno I think, but it never turned up, so I must have got the calculation wrong.

I had forgotten that route. In the early 70s I bought a Crossville timetable for the area and that one really struck me as weird. Another, not so much odd as an anacronism, was the service between Ffestiniog and Dolgellau. A morning service ran to the army camp at Bronaber but it kept on unchanged for a decade after it closed turning back at a road junction that had nobody living nearby any more.

 

[PeterC]

Phil Anslow of Varteg near Pontypool's 24X has the first journey originating from the stop adjacent to the depot and the last terminating there. The rest of the day is spent shuttling between Cwmbran and Newport. Presumably this is to get BSOG for what are otherwise positioning moves.

Didn't First WoE do something similar between Hengrove Depot and Temple Meads at one time?

Redline used to do that with positioning runs from Aylesbury when they had the contract for the 354.

 

[TheSel]

The route number 216 suggested Lancashire United to me, as all their works services were numbered in the 200 series.

Sure enough, a May 1973 LUT timetable has a group of works services to Risley from various places, all numbered 216. One of these is from Haydock, Vista Road, with timings very similar to the Crosville route 216 above.

In 1973 & 1974 agreements were made between GMPTE, MPTE, Lancashire United, Ribble and Crosville to exchange various mileage agreements between the operators. I think that the transfer of this route might have been one of the outcomes of this, although I have no way of telling for certain.

Thank you. That would make a lot of sense.

I've checked the Crosville timetable for the period May '74 - May '75, and this route is not mentioned. I can't find the t/t for 1975/6, however it IS there in the June 1976 one, which nicely ties in with the GMPTE takeover of Lancashire United.

 

[TheSel]

Redline used to do that with positioning runs from Aylesbury when they had the contract for the 354.

Ditto when PMT (trading as Red Rider) set up a low-cost operation at Moreton (on the Wirral) to operate various Merseyside routes - some commercial, much tendered. One very odd feature was service 475 which ran at highly irregular times (including something like 0013 from Liverpool) between Moreton Station and Liverpool Pier Head to cover running (and crew reliefs) on the 75/175 and 106 (Liverpool - Huyton via different routes). I'm not sure whether I still have a t/t leaflet - I'll have a hunt tomorrow and scan it if I can find it.

 

[Statto]

Ditto when PMT (trading as Red Rider) set up a low-cost operation at Moreton (on the Wirral) to operate various Merseyside routes - some commercial, much tendered. One very odd feature was service 475 which ran at highly irregular times (including something like 0013 from Liverpool) between Moreton Station and Liverpool Pier Head to cover running (and crew reliefs) on the 75/175 and 106 (Liverpool - Huyton via different routes). I'm not sure whether I still have a t/t leaflet - I'll have a hunt tomorrow and scan it if I can find it.

I do remember that RedRider 475, the route from Pier Head down Leeds Street to the tunnel, & never went through the city centre, it would have been quite costly for RedRider to run dead through the tunnel, i do remember the 38/39 being one of the routes RedRider operated commercially, rather weirdly to/ from Hamilton Square station & not Woodside to West Kirby with one an hour extending to Mill Park/Eastham Ferry, the Greasby-Bromborough section of the route was quite scenic.

 

[Statto]

Circle routes excepted, have any areas had a route that would show a different number when on a return journey over the same route, for example a couple of routes in Wirral had this scenario, because of a double run, in the mid 80s, the PTE extended the 42 Mill Park-Overchurch Road to Woodside via Moreton replacing the 21/22, but because of a double run down Park Road North & Laird Street, buses were numbered 42 one way & 43 the other, a few years later, Merseybus, introduced a 7/7A Woodside-New Brighton, with buses on the return journey showing 8/8A/8E again because of a double run on Hoylake Road

 

[Bookd]

I suspect that hospital services have been mentioned in the past in relation to the services that would operate to what had been "County Asylums" and were generally some large Victorian pile out in the sticks where people were incarcerated rather than be cared for in the community. Most of the ones I recall tended to have services for visitors rather than staff so usually something on an evening and/or a Sunday afternoon.

Seem to recall that United and Northern used to run services to Prudhoe Hospital from various Tyneside spots, and there was also a service or two to St Georges near Morpeth. United also ran a service from East Cleveland to a number of hospitals for evening visiting terminating at Poole Hospital in Nunthorpe. I'm sure that was a pattern replicated across the country.

Also in Northumberland, the X18 has for many years had a small diversion to serve Acklington Prison https://www.google.com/maps/@55.298...4!1sRtUS8ssbE2KdRgOIHZ2M4g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 - I believe it was statistically significant as one of the reasons why people bought multi operator Explorer tickets!

Having looked these up United had services from Middlesbrough via West Hartlepool to Prudhoe on the first Saturday in each month and from West Hartlepool to Stannington on visiting days only.
As far as I can tell from the fare table the Prudhoe service picked up only as far as WH by then at all stages from Marlborough Crescent - maybe Northern objected to the section covered by the joint route 40 although it could hardly be said to be competition.
The Stannington service only seemed to pick up at WH, Haymarket and Seaton Burn; it was said to only run subject to traffic requirements and I don't know how the inspector at WH would be expected to know if someone would be waiting at Seaton Burn.
There were other hospital services from Middlesbrough - Marton - Poole Sanatorium and Middlesbrough - Stokesley - Kirkbymoorside Orthopaedic Hospital.

 

[TheSel]

Ditto when PMT (trading as Red Rider) set up a low-cost operation at Moreton (on the Wirral) to operate various Merseyside routes - some commercial, much tendered. One very odd feature was service 475 which ran at highly irregular times (including something like 0013 from Liverpool) between Moreton Station and Liverpool Pier Head to cover running (and crew reliefs) on the 75/175 and 106 (Liverpool - Huyton via different routes). I'm not sure whether I still have a t/t leaflet - I'll have a hunt tomorrow and scan it if I can find it.

I do remember that RedRider 475, the route from Pier Head down Leeds Street to the tunnel, & never went through the city centre, it would have been quite costly for RedRider to run dead through the tunnel, i do remember the 38/39 being one of the routes RedRider operated commercially, rather weirdly to/ from Hamilton Square station & not Woodside to West Kirby with one an hour extending to Mill Park/Eastham Ferry, the Greasby-Bromborough section of the route was quite scenic.

Found a timetable - not from the original date, but a 1991 version, which differs only slightly. Certainly it shows the concept I was referring to.

 

[TheSel]

Circle routes excepted, have any areas had a route that would show a different number when on a return journey over the same route, for example a couple of routes in Wirral had this scenario, because of a double run, in the mid 80s, the PTE extended the 42 Mill Park-Overchurch Road to Woodside via Moreton replacing the 21/22, but because of a double run down Park Road North & Laird Street, buses were numbered 42 one way & 43 the other, a few years later, Merseybus, introduced a 7/7A Woodside-New Brighton, with buses on the return journey showing 8/8A/8E again because of a double run on Hoylake Road

Yes - absolutely - and very much in the same area.

Crosville's Birkenhead (Park Station) to West Kirby (Fulton Avenue) (later extended to Newton Park Road, to avoid the need to reverse into Fulton Avenue) was F37 (towards Birkenhead) and F38 (towards Fulton Avenue) until the April 1979 renumbering / recasting of [virtually] all Wirral area services.

 

[MotCO]

Circle routes excepted, have any areas had a route that would show a different number when on a return journey over the same route, for example a couple of routes in Wirral had this scenario, because of a double run, in the mid 80s, the PTE extended the 42 Mill Park-Overchurch Road to Woodside via Moreton replacing the 21/22, but because of a double run down Park Road North & Laird Street, buses were numbered 42 one way & 43 the other, a few years later, Merseybus, introduced a 7/7A Woodside-New Brighton, with buses on the return journey showing 8/8A/8E again because of a double run on Hoylake Road

Not quite the same, but I do recall London Transport (remember those days?) used black on yellow blinds to distinguish strange journeys on otherwise regular routes - route 114 Ruislip to Harrow being one such route. https://www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/114.html provides details (Web link to history of route 114 showing timetables and a picture of AEC Swift SMS662 showing yellow blinds to denote a routeing via Besborough Road rather than the usual direct route.)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes - absolutely - and very much in the same area.

Crosville's Birkenhead (Park Station) to West Kirby (Fulton Avenue) (later extended to Newton Park Road, to avoid the need to reverse into Fulton Avenue) was F37 (towards Birkenhead) and F38 (towards Fulton Avenue) until the April 1979 renumbering / recasting of [virtually] all Wirral area services.

View attachment 77546

More importantly.....Sunnylands Caravan Park apparently still survives to this day!!!

I might be wrong on this but didn't Portsmouth CT have a habit of routes that had a number in one direction and a different one in the reverse??

 

[Hophead]

In late 2012, First in Portsmouth started a route 0 as a result of a network recast in the city. The zero was a circular service but doesn't seem to have lasted more than a couple of months before being replaced by more the conventionally numbered 17 & 18.

There is a reference to this on and around post 517 in the First Group Restructuring thread.

 

[43055]

To me I find Midlands Classic number 11 a bit odd. It is just a short 14 min loop and half of the route is alongside other frequent routes. I think it is more of a shopper bus as it only operates between 0900 and 1400 Monday to Saturday. Snippet from the network map:

 

[Class45]

In Luton in the 1960s there used to be three one way routes which combined to make a sort of three pointed star as follows -

29 Airport - Town Centre - Priestleys
30 Priestleys - Town Centre - Limbury
31 Limbury - Town Centre - Airport

So buses going to and from the town centre would have different numbers, also if you wanted to travel across town you could catch a through bus in one direction but would have to change buses in the other.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To me I find Midlands Classic number 11 a bit odd. It is just a short 14 min loop and half of the route is alongside other frequent routes. I think it is more of a shopper bus as it only operates between 0900 and 1400 Monday to Saturday. Snippet from the network map:
View attachment 77553

That’s exactly what it is. It’s generally for pensioners as most fit and able people who just walk into town.

 

[Statto]

Yes - absolutely - and very much in the same area.

Crosville's Birkenhead (Park Station) to West Kirby (Fulton Avenue) (later extended to Newton Park Road, to avoid the need to reverse into Fulton Avenue) was F37 (towards Birkenhead) and F38 (towards Fulton Avenue) until the April 1979 renumbering / recasting of [virtually] all Wirral area services.

View attachment 77546

I forgot about those routes & i have a couple of PTE Wirral area timetable books from the 70s, interesting that F37/F38 was used for journeys to/from Newton, F39 was used for journeys to/from at West Kirby

The 1985 changes F37/F38/F39 all reappeared but as 37[37A]/38/39, 37/37A operated by the PTE & Crosville, 38/39 operated by Crosville

 

[Statto]

Looking at old timetables the Merseyside PTE the 71/71A Woodside-Heswall most short journeys started/terminated on Borough Road near Birkenhead Central station, however, what was strange one journey a day terminated in Irby, & the return was 71E Irby-Laird Street depot via a completely different route to the 71/71A from Arrowe Park to Laird Street, these were the last 71s of the day & the 71E had no direct daytime equivalent.

Also 71/71A[71C when that was introduced in the early 80s] were unusual as the only Corporation/PTE route to serve Irby & Heswall, as all other Heswall routes were operated by Crosville, who had a depot over the road from the bus station

 

[Tetchytyke]

So buses going to and from the town centre would have different numbers, also if you wanted to travel across town you could catch a through bus in one direction but would have to change buses in the other.

For a while- quite recently!- First Bradford had a similar arrangenent on the 622 and 625 services. Many would start in Brighouse as a 625 or in Wyke as a 622 but then switch to the opposite at Bradford Interchange. Not even remotely confusing.

Now the Bradford- Brighouse and Eldwick/Baildon-Bradford services are split.

 

[TheSel]

Looking at old timetables the Merseyside PTE the 71/71A Woodside-Heswall most short journeys started/terminated on Borough Road near Birkenhead Central station, however, what was strange one journey a day terminated in Irby, & the return was 71E Irby-Laird Street depot via a completely different route to the 71/71A from Arrowe Park to Laird Street, these were the last 71s of the day & the 71E had no direct daytime equivalent.

Also 71/71A[71C when that was introduced in the early 80s] were unusual as the only Corporation/PTE route to serve Irby & Heswall, as all other Heswall routes were operated by Crosville, who had a depot over the road from the bus station

Yes, the 71/71A were the only Birkenhead Corporation routes to serve Heswall. They'd been doing so since 1 October 1930. They also served Irby with the 74 which continued to run to Thurstaston Shore until around 1966. This was as part of the deal which permitted Crosville to run to Woodside - previously they'd been forced to terminate at Singleton Avenue, not far from Tranmere Rover's football ground.

There are a few pages devoted to the agreement between Crosville and Birkenhead Corporation (and about Crosville's take-over of 'Johnny Pye', and therefore how they came to have such a significant presence and a depot in Heswall) in W J Crosland-Taylor's 'The Sowing and The Harvest'. Although the original book is long out of print, there was a reprint by the Transport Publishing Company in October 1987 under ISBN 086317 139 7 for anyone who's desperately interested. I also recommend the 1981 book 'A History of Crosville Motor Services' by R C Anderson - ISBN 07153 8088 5.

Incidentally, the bus station is still there (although much modernised and smaller). It was a combined depot / bus station, with the bus station adjoining the main West Kirby - Chester road (A540), and the depot section being beyond 'Pye Road', which was for many years little more than a service road, with hardly any through traffic. The land that was the depot is now home to a pub, called, appropriately enough, the Johnny Pye.



Recent view from Google Streetview

Birkenhead Corporation 146 leaving Heswall Bus station shortly before being absorbed into Merseyside PTE.

 

[Statto]

Yes, the 71/71A were the only Birkenhead Corporation routes to serve Heswall. They'd been doing so since 1 October 1930. They also served Irby with the 74 which continued to run to Thurstaston Shore until around 1966. This was as part of the deal which permitted Crosville to run to Woodside - previously they'd been forced to terminate at Singleton Avenue, not far from Tranmere Rover's football ground.

There are a few pages devoted to the agreement between Crosville and Birkenhead Corporation (and about Crosville's take-over of 'Johnny Pye', and therefore how they came to have such a significant presence and a depot in Heswall) in W J Crosland-Taylor's 'The Sowing and The Harvest'. Although the original book is long out of print, there was a reprint by the Transport Publishing Company in October 1987 under ISBN 086317 139 7 for anyone who's desperately interested. I also recommend the 1981 book 'A History of Crosville Motor Services' by R C Anderson - ISBN 07153 8088 5.

Incidentally, the bus station is still there (although much modernised and smaller). It was a combined depot / bus station, with the bus station adjoining the main West Kirby - Chester road (A540), and the depot section being beyond 'Pye Road', which was for many years little more than a service road, with hardly any through traffic. The land that was the depot is now home to a pub, called, appropriately enough, the Johnny Pye.

View attachment 77675

Recent view from Google Streetview

Birkenhead Corporation 146 leaving Heswall Bus station shortly before being absorbed into Merseyside PTE.
View attachment 77676

I know the Heswall routes quite well not being far from where i live, the current bus station is much smaller than the old bus station, the current bus station was built a couple of years after the old bus station & depot closed in the late 80s, terminating buses had to wait on the main road then go out of service & turn round at the glegg arms roundabout, there was a bit of criticisms over this, so the current bus station was built as a replacement.

71C was introduced in the early 80s to serve the newly built Arrowe Park hospital, 71C went via the 71A then diverted via the hospital, now all services on the current version 471/472 go via the hospital

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another bizarre one from the world of United Auto.

There were market day journeys from Bedale to Leyburn and return (Fri) and Leyburn to Bedale and return (Tues). To get fuel duty rebate, they decided to register them to and from Richmond as a circular I.e. Richmond - Bedale - Leyburn - Richmond or vice versa as the 178/179. That's a 32 mile circular!!

 

[CBlue]

Stagecoach used to operate a coach service, X10 if I recall the number correctly from Cambridge to the USAF bases at Mildenhall and Lakenheath. You could pay your fare in US dollars, perhaps unique for a bus service in this country?

 

[Geordie driver]

Also in Northumberland, the X18 has for many years had a small diversion to serve Acklington Prison https://www.google.com/maps/@55.298...4!1sRtUS8ssbE2KdRgOIHZ2M4g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 - I believe it was statistically significant as one of the reasons why people bought multi operator Explorer tickets!

I have been on that service as a passenger, got talking to the driver and he told me they hated the Acklington detour, many had warrants to pay for their travel, or those plastic NBC tokens, or refused to pay, it was basically a mini riot upstairs with the kids running wild. Drivers just kept their head down and hoped for the best!

 

[PeterC]

Circle routes excepted, have any areas had a route that would show a different number when on a return journey over the same route, for example a couple of routes in Wirral had this scenario, because of a double run, in the mid 80s, the PTE extended the 42 Mill Park-Overchurch Road to Woodside via Moreton replacing the 21/22, but because of a double run down Park Road North & Laird Street, buses were numbered 42 one way & 43 the other, a few years later, Merseybus, introduced a 7/7A Woodside-New Brighton, with buses on the return journey showing 8/8A/8E again because of a double run on Hoylake Road

The Chesham / Amersham local services operated by Red Rose often end in loops. There is one journey where the outbound service is a 73 and the return is a 71. The loop section is shown on both outbound and inbound journeys giving the bus 2 different numbers for 4 minutes. With the vehicles interworking 3 routes all numbered 7x it is no wonder that one former driver took to displaying just the number 7 for the whole day.

 

[delt1c]

Stagecoach used to operate a coach service, X10 if I recall the number correctly from Cambridge to the USAF bases at Mildenhall and Lakenheath. You could pay your fare in US dollars, perhaps unique for a bus service in this country?

When the Airbus services were introduced in London they accepted foreign currency at a pre set rate

 

[NorthOxonian]

Stagecoach used to operate a coach service, X10 if I recall the number correctly from Cambridge to the USAF bases at Mildenhall and Lakenheath. You could pay your fare in US dollars, perhaps unique for a bus service in this country?

According to their website the airline service between Oxford and Heathrow/Gatwick accepts both Euros and US dollars. This also appears to have applied in the past to the X90, and will apply to the High Wycombe - Maidenhead - Heathrow service, if it is introduced.