[Trivia] How far can you travel on standard gauge track?

[GardenRail]

If this has been asked before, sorry....

Now, imagine we have a locomotive, that has no route restrictions, and would fit on any Standard Gauge route in the world. It can also go through the Channel Tunnel.

Its going to start a journey from Wick/Thurso in Scotland. How far could it, in theory travel on Standard Gauge track, from there? How far does the Standard Gauge Network let a train go, without physically taking off one track, to put on a different, unconnected line or network?

As an aside, but not the main question; If it was capable of having its bogies changed at a dedicated change or gauge, how far into the world, could it potentially go? In theory I guess the line has to be 'continuous' if that makes sense, from Wick/Thurso.

 

[hexagon789]

If this has been asked before, sorry....

Now, imagine we have a locomotive, that has no route restrictions, and would fit on any Standard Gauge route in the world. It can also go through the Channel Tunnel.

Its going to start a journey from Wick/Thurso in Scotland. How far could it, in theory travel on Standard Gauge track, from there? How far does the Standard Gauge Network let a train go, without physically taking off one track, to put on a different, unconnected line or network?

Iran if you permit use of the Lake Van train ferry, otherwise Turkey.

 

[GardenRail]

Iran if you permit use of the Lake Van train ferry, otherwise Turkey.

Yes, so long as its part of the network, so to speak. Amazing to think that the track in Thurso, is connected to Iran.

 

[Snow1964]

It's roughly 3000km from Channel tunnel to north Norway (possible now Danish islands are connected by bridges)

Its roughly 3100km from Channel tunnel to Ankara, but don't know furthest point you can get to in Turkey

I don't know exact distance by the rail line, so which turns out to be longer I can't determine

 

[RailExplorer]

Zahedan (just short of the Pakistani border) is the in theory the end of the Standard Guage route but as others said, that involves a railway boat across Lake Van. The boat is only for the train. I did a trip on the train Ankara to Tehran over a decade ago which used this boat, albeit the loco and most of the coaching stock was not brought onto the boat.

Tatvan is the last stop before the lake crossing.

If you can't use the boat, than Kars is probably your furthest point.

Both have only been possible since they built the Bosporus rail tunnel.

Looking at the world rail map on wiki there might also be some old connection to Iraq. But not sure if there's a gap in the line at Turkish/Iraqi border and there's certainly no trains on this route unlike the Turkey/Iran route above (although even that has been suspended for some time now).

 

[mad_rich]

If train ferries are allowed, then you may as well roll on at Villa S Giovanni and find a captain who will take you to New Jersey.

New York New Jersey Rail - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[stuu]

If this has been asked before, sorry....

Now, imagine we have a locomotive, that has no route restrictions, and would fit on any Standard Gauge route in the world. It can also go through the Channel Tunnel.

Its going to start a journey from Wick/Thurso in Scotland. How far could it, in theory travel on Standard Gauge track, from there? How far does the Standard Gauge Network let a train go, without physically taking off one track, to put on a different, unconnected line or network?

As an aside, but not the main question; If it was capable of having its bogies changed at a dedicated change or gauge, how far into the world, could it potentially go? In theory I guess the line has to be 'continuous' if that makes sense, from Wick/Thurso.

The railway gauge option on openrailwaymap is your friend.

As to the second question, there is now a 'continuous' railway all the way to Singapore. However there is no gauge changing at the Laos-Thai border so rolling stock can't do the journey without a bit of cheating.

 

[mailbyrail]

I remember back in the 1970s that Harworth Glass Bulbs (off the South Yorkshire Jt line) used to export by rail in through ferry vans to Iran.
I've seen BR 'Through to the continent with BR' vans running Eastwards through central Turkey back in 1979, they had got there of course by the ferries across the Channel and the Bosphorus.

 

[norbitonflyer]

By 1940 the Taurus Exporess ran through from Istanbul to Baghdad, although the Bosporus tunnel was not, of course, open until much later. The Iraqi state railways have, if I have understood the article I read correctly, a standard guage line all the way from Baghdad to the Persian Gulf at Basra.

However, the Bosporus tunnel did not open until 2013, international services between Turkey and Iraq have been suspended since 2003, and the standard gauge line to Basra only opened in 2014, so there has never been a continuous standard gauge route from Britain to the Persian Gulf.

Incidentally, although there have been direct freight trains from China to Britain, they went through two breaks of gauge, at the China/Kazakhstan and Belarus/Polish borders.

 

[GardenRail]

The railway gauge option on openrailwaymap is your friend.

As to the second question, there is now a 'continuous' railway all the way to Singapore. However there is no gauge changing at the Laos-Thai border so rolling stock can't do the journey without a bit of cheating.

That map is amazing. Had no Idea of it's existence. Cheers.

Incidentally, although there have been direct freight trains from China to Britain, they went through two breaks of gauge, at the China/Kazakhstan and Belarus/Polish borders.

I've heard of this before. Did the actual wagons make the full journey and their gauge was changed, or were the containers physically unloaded and loaded onto different wagons? Does this journey still happen or did it die?

Thanks

 

[Gloster]

I remember back in the 1970s that Harworth Glass Bulbs (off the South Yorkshire Jt line) used to export by rail in through ferry vans to Iran.
I've seen BR 'Through to the continent with BR' vans running Eastwards through central Turkey back in 1979, they had got there of course by the ferries across the Channel and the Bosphorus.

I have seen at least one picture of this traffic in BR owned ferry vans.

 

[etr221]

For a period in the 1940s (I think 1942-48), there was a standard guage link along the coast, between the Syrian network at Tripoli (and so from Turkey) and the Palestinian at Haifa - thence on to Egypt. Similarly, for part of the time there was a swing bridge link across the Suez Canal. I don't know whether the furthest limit was Aswan, up the Nile, or Sollum, at the end of the coastal line to the Libyan border. To what extent there were through services or working I've no idea, but I'm sure through sleepers from Hayadarpasa to Cairo were at least proposed, in place of pre-war bus link, to be part of the Taurus Express. And post war conflicts have now made a very large gap (or two)...

 

[farci]

A great thread showing the breadth of members' knowledge. China needs a non-Russian-gauge route to standard-gauge land. There's a lot of action which I find perplexing. What do we think is the future best bet?

 

[GardenRail]

Does the KARS Railway from Turkey into the Republic of Georgia form part of the network into China with changes in gauge?

 

[Dr Hoo]

A great thread showing the breadth of members' knowledge. China needs a non-Russian-gauge route to standard-gauge land. There's a lot of action which I find perplexing. What do we think is the future best bet?

The politics are obviously a bit dodgy and the terrain challenging but standard gauge does now just reach into Afghanistan from Iran plus China and Afghanistan share a tiny bit of border. So just needs one more link.

 

[GardenRail]

The politics are obviously a bit dodgy and the terrain challenging but standard gauge does now just reach into Afghanistan from Iran plus China and Afghanistan share a tiny bit of border. So just needs one more link.

Truly amazing.

 

[stuu]

Does the KARS Railway from Turkey into the Republic of Georgia form part of the network into China with changes in gauge?

Not significantly, you still either have to go via Russia or across the Caspian Sea. It replaced the previous link via Armenia which was closed after the collapse of the USSR, so reopens rail links between Turkey and the Caucasus, but doesn't add much to connectivity on a wider basis. Politics and fighty people are still the biggest issues

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

the standard gauge line to Basra only opened in 2014

According to Andrew Grantham's Iraqi railway site, the Baghdad-Basra standard gauge line was built in the 1960s. Passenger services were running in 2009.

Wikipedia confuses the actually existing line with a proposed high speed line, thanks to a dubious press release from the Iraqi embassy in Washington DC.

 

[stadler]

Using standard gauge only i would say Thurso/Wick in the UK to Akhalkalaki in Georgia is the furthest.

As mentioned you could get to from Thurso/Wick in the UK to Zahedan in Iran if you are using the train ferry. But personally i would not count that. As this involves a train ferry and not a through railway track. If we are including ferries you could get to Australia on standard gauge if a train ferry started running there.

Using gauge changing trains i would say Thurso/Wick in the UK to Busan in South Korea is the furthest.

Once the new line from Astara in Azerbaijan to Tehran in Iran is finally completed it would be possible to use gauge changing trains to get from Thurso/Wick in the UK to Tipong in India (which is close to the China and India and Myanmar tri point) or to Sabroom in India (which is close to the Bangladesh and India and Myanmar tri point) or to Dhaka in Bangladesh as well.

There is no through railway to Singapore currently. The lines at Vientiane in Laos are two seperate lines that do not run next to each other or meet up with each other. They do run nearby but not close enough. So if you wanted to install a guage changing facility you would first have to extend one of the two lines slightly so that they meet up with each other.

 

[etr221]

A while back (before the railways in Laos, and probably the Channel Tunnel) I came to the conclusion that the longest continuous rail journey - allowing for guage changing - was from Lagos (or maybe Vila Real de Santo Antonio) in southern Portugal to Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City in southern Vietnam. I think this is still the case until the link between the lines in Laos is finished.

But a lot depends on quite what the rules are...

Using gauge changing trains i would say Thurso/Wick in the UK to Busan in South Korea is the furthest.

I don't believe there is any link currently across the Korean armistice line from North to South

 

[stadler]

A while back (before the railways in Laos, and probably the Channel Tunnel) I came to the conclusion that the longest continuous rail journey - allowing for guage changing - was from Lagos (or maybe Vila Real de Santo Antonio) in southern Portugal to Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City in southern Vietnam. I think this is still the case until the link between the lines in Laos is finished.

But a lot depends on quite what the rules are...


I don't believe there is any link currently across the Korean armistice line from North to South

I thought that the railway between North Korea and South Korea still existed but nothing was allowed to cross it? Both countries have closed their borders with each other but the track still exists? So a train could potentially cross it if both countries allowed? Or have they actually removed the tracks?

 

[norbitonflyer]

According to Andrew Grantham's Iraqi railway site, the Baghdad-Basra standard gauge line was built in the 1960s. Passenger services were running in 2009.

Wikipedia confuses the actually existing line with a proposed high speed line, thanks to a dubious press release from the Iraqi embassy in Washington DC.

Thanks for that. I had seen an earlier map from the 1930s showing the metre gauge line, and the article about the high speed line, and another more recent map which did not distinguish gauges, so understood from Wikipedia article that the high speed line opened in 2014, and had directly replaced the narrow gauge line.

 

[stuu]

There is no through railway to Singapore currently. The lines at Vientiane in Laos are two seperate lines that do not run next to each other or meet up with each other. They do run nearby but not close enough. So if you wanted to install a guage changing facility you would first have to extend one of the two lines slightly so that they meet up with each other.

There is a shared freight yard east of Vientiane, so the lines are 10-20m apart. It may not be in full use yet but there is standard gauge rolling stock visible on satellite images. For practical purposes that is a through railway. The engineering and political issues in running a train all the way through are far harder to overcome than putting in connection that would allow through running

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The politics are obviously a bit dodgy and the terrain challenging but standard gauge does now just reach into Afghanistan from Iran plus China and Afghanistan share a tiny bit of border. So just needs one more link.

Challenging is an understatement if you are thinking of the Wakhan Corridor! But it is a proposal and with a dry port at the border! You'll need your warm coat to work there.

I got Kunduz (link with other proposed Afghanistan lines) to the border as 650km, then 400km to the Chinese network (heading north then east rather than through mountain).

There is no through railway to Singapore currently. The lines at Vientiane in Laos are two seperate lines that do not run next to each other or meet up with each other. They do run nearby but not close enough. So if you wanted to install a guage changing facility you would first have to extend one of the two lines slightly so that they meet up with each other.

There is a shared freight yard east of Vientiane, so the lines are 10-20m apart. It may not be in full use yet but there is standard gauge rolling stock visible on satellite images. For practical purposes that is a through railway. The engineering and political issues in running a train all the way through are far harder to overcome than putting in connection that would allow through running

Indeed, the latest Google Aerial (or satellite?) shows the curvy link here and you can just make out the parallel sidings. But not a continuous strip of steel from Wick to Singapore.

17°55'48.3"N 102°42'34.2"E​

 

[Western Gaffer]

Its going to start a journey from Wick/Thurso in Scotland. How far could it, in theory travel on Standard Gauge track, from there? How far does the Standard Gauge Network let a train go, without physically taking off one track, to put on a different, unconnected line or network?

In 1989/90, about 150 miles....

 

[johnr57]

In 1989/90, about 150 miles....

Please explain

 

[The exile]

I know that the premise of the post is starting from Wick - but presumably Bodo in Norway will give you a longer journey (or even Narvik?)

Please explain

Ness bridge collapse!

 

[johnr57]

I know that the premise of the post is starting from Wick - but presumably Bodo in Norway will give you a longer journey (or even Narvik?)


Ness bridge collapse!

Ah !! Of course