Trivia: Instances where trip planners 'Do a Ryanair'...

[najaB]

I was just looking at fares to Edinburgh Airport and came across an instance where the trip planner does a Ryanair - that is, it gets you somewhere close and leaves you to make your own way to your destination. Screenshot below:



(Screenshot shows journey details as by rail Dundee-Perth-Stirling-Edinburgh Park and then says 'Make your own way from Edinburgh Park to Edinburgh Airport")

For reference, the walk from Edinburgh Park to the airport is 3.5 miles using the route that Google plots. It only seems to happen with this overnight itinerary, later journeys via Edinburgh Gateway include the tram - which is odd given that the tram is also available from Edinburgh Park.

Has anyone else come across other examples where trip planners give up, and what's the longest suggested walk you've seen? Also, is this actually allowed - offering an itinerary to a station 3 miles away from where you requested?

 

[Benjwri]

This happens because of a combination of two factors. There is a fixed link between Edinburgh Park and Edinburgh Airport, however this fixed link is a 'transfer' link in the data, and therefore is only shown up as 'make your way' in journey planner. In reality you are meant to take the tram, as you suggested. This however is not shown as taking the tram because your rail ticket wouldn't be valid on the tram in theory, even if it were to 'EDINBURGH AIRPORT BUS/TRAM', as these tickets require you to change at Edinburgh Gateway.

This issue is only showing for your journey because the quickest route is via Edinburgh Gateway, and most planners will be set up to prefer it, however it isn't feasible to reach Edinburgh Gateway at a reasonable time presuming you leave at 00:00.

(As a side note if you are actually planning on making this trip, the initial service from Dundee to Perth would be a Rail replacement bus on this particular day, and you would be much better travelling on the 0540 service from Dundee, which will take you direct to Edinburgh Gateway, arriving at the airport by 07:32)

 

[najaB]

I figured it was something like that since, as you note, it only affects this particular journey (and I only saw it by clicking the 'Earlier' link in the results).

If I was making this journey I would probably just ask the tram conductor at Edinburgh Park as they would more than likely just say 'Nae bother' or walk from Edinburgh Park to Gateway and get the tram from there. I was more wondering about the general case of corner cases where journey planners get you 'reasonably close' to where you need to be and then say you're on your own. If I was a visitor to the UK or someone unfamiliar with the area I might assume that Edinburgh Park had to be close to the airport - otherwise why would the planner offer that as an itinerary?

As a side note if you are actually planning on making this trip, the initial service from Dundee to Perth would be a Rail replacement bus on this particular day, and you would be much better travelling on the 0540 service from Dundee, which will take you direct to Edinburgh Gateway, arriving at the airport by 07:32

I'm actually going to take the bus - the Ember departure from Dundee at 0540 gets me to the airport for 0715, and it's £7.50 as opposed to £24 for the train.

 

[Benjwri]

If I was a visitor to the UK or someone unfamiliar with the area I might assume that Edinburgh Park had to be close to the airport - otherwise why would the planner offer that as an itinerary?

I presume they would figure it out when they got to the station, and since the ticket is considerably cheaper than one to Gateway, I don't think it'd be too much of an issue for them to purchase a tram ticket for the remainder of the journey.

 

[najaB]

I presume they would figure it out when they got to the station, and since the ticket is considerably cheaper than one to Gateway, I don't think it'd be too much of an issue for them to purchase a tram ticket for the remainder of the journey.

It's an extra £6.50 for the tram to the airport, where this ticket is only 80p cheaper than the ticket valid via Gateway.

 

[Watershed]

You've certainly come across a problem, but it's a slightly different one to what you have raised.

From what I can see, it looks like the ticket you're being sold is routed "VIA INK 747 BUS", or "Change at Inverkeithing for 747 Bus" in longform (as would be printed on the ticket). So it's not the case that you have to make your own way to your destination - it includes travel on the 747 bus from Inverkeithing.

However, in the industry data, the fixed link from Edinburgh Park to Edinburgh Airport is described as a "transfer" (i.e. make your own way). This is misleading as it should really be a "metro" fixed link, as is the case from Edinburgh Gateway.

There's a further issue here in that tickets routed VIA INK 747 BUS can be issued for itineraries via Edinburgh Park, as ScotRail have forgotten to include Edinburgh Park as an excluded location for that route code. The most pragmatic solution solution would either be to change VIA EGY TRAM to VIA EGY/EDP TRAM, or to introduce a new route VIA EDP TRAM fare.

As to whether it's allowed (assuming it did really mean "make your own way")... I don't see why not. It is at least clearly indicating to you that you'll have to make your own way for part of the journey. So long as that is sufficiently prominent during the purchase process (in the same way as good retailers will warn you if part of your journey doesn't have First Class when buying a First Class fare), it's perfectly lawful, even if a little unhelpful.

 

[Horizon22]

I've often wondered what the Trainline definition of "transfer" is meant to mean London terminals at weird times of the day. But it often suggests things like this in London in the early hours, even on NRE.

 

[Watershed]

I've often wondered what the Trainline definition of "transfer" is meant to mean London terminals at weird times of the day. But it often suggests things like this in London in the early hours, even on NRE.

It's simply down to the hours between which the industry data says that the Underground is to be treated as available. For most fixed links, that's between 0529-2359.

 

[Horizon22]

It's simply down to the hours between which the industry data says that the Underground is to be treated as available. For most fixed links, that's between 0529-2359.

Where is the data from and for? A Google Maps journey by taxi? It must be calculating time somehow.

 

[Watershed]

Where is the data from and for? A Google Maps journey by taxi? It must be calculating time somehow.

It's the data that is supplied by the RDG. Booking sites are required to use it as a term of their accreditation, even though it's frankly junk in some cases. You can see it at www.brtimes.com

I imagine the times are based on using a taxi or night bus.

 

[Merseysider]

Searching for journeys to Burscough Junction will often return results to Burscough Bridge and then an 18 minute walk.

And vice versa.

Not too bad as it can normally be done in 15 minutes but I reckon a few people not looking closely enough will’ve been caught out with a surprise mile to walk

 

[miklcct]

If the fixed link is shown as bus/ship/metro/tram/taxi/etc., does it mean that the bus/ship/metro/tram/taxi/etc. fare is included in the ticket?

 

[alistairlees]

If the fixed link is shown as bus/ship/metro/tram/taxi/etc., does it mean that the bus/ship/metro/tram/taxi/etc. fare is included in the ticket?

Depends on the ticket

 

[Watershed]

If the fixed link is shown as bus/ship/metro/tram/taxi/etc., does it mean that the bus/ship/metro/tram/taxi/etc. fare is included in the ticket?

Not necessarily. It depends on what the ticket says; for example tickets routed TILBRY&GRAVESND (00013, printed on tickets as "Via Tilbury-Gravesend (ferry not incl)") are only valid via the aforementioned ferry but exclude the fare for this. Similarly with tickets routed HUMBRLNK NOT BUS (00101, printed "Via Humberlink - bus fare not included"). Other tickets, such as that alluded to in the first post, do include the tram/bus.