Trivia: Large housing estates underserved by buses

[PTR 444]

The other day, I managed to hop on a Stagecoach route 46 bus from Winchester to North Baddesley in Hampshire. In the old days, the route continued to Southampton via the city’s General Hospital but that leg was axed some years ago. Now it is an odd rump of a route that really only exists to serve the large housing estate of Valley Park, a series of 1980s and 1990s dwellings spread out over a mile apart.

Since the 46 now only operates three round trips every weekday, the estate has become largely car dependent and anyone at the far end without a car either has to wait 3-4 hours for their nearest bus, or walk a mile to the next next nearest service - the Bluestar 5 which runs between Romsey and Eastleigh.

Valley Park is an odd estate in that it is a natural extension of the Eastleigh urban area, yet is located in the Test Valley local authority which looks towards Romsey. It is also not far from Southampton, yet the only sizeable place the estate has a direct service to is Winchester, some distance further away. For a low density sprawl estate of more than 1000 dwellings, I believe that Valley Park deserves much better bus provision than it currently has. Perhaps reinstate the 46 extension to Southampton while at the same time, divert some Bluestar 5 journeys through the estate.

That is just one estate with under-provision of bus services, but are there any others like it?

 

[upasalmon]

Beechwood and Noctorum estates in Birkenhead have been poorly served by Arriva since Avon Buses closed two years ago These two deprived estates have virtually no evening and a skeleton Sunday daytime service. Neither Arriva nor Merseytravel seem to be interested in serving these estates despite petitions and protests.

 

[route101]

Few places in East Kilbride fit the bill.

Stewartfield, large private housing development. Recently had First 31 running a service ti Glasgow City Centre, was dropped. Its replacementt is an hourly JMB travel service to Carmunnock. Quite walk for anyone in the area to get a direct bus to Glasgow and large part is at least 30 mins walk to railway station.

Lindsayfield, i think hourly SPT 395 bus serves this area.

East Kilbride large town but poorly connected

 

[markymark2000]

Langdon Hills near Laindon - large estate but only an hourly service
Great Notley near Braintree is pretty unserved. Only a few buses per day
Poynton a town of 14k only served by an hourly bus which winds its way around all of the town.
Much of Blackburn and Darwen is underserved with either no bus or a few per day. I know Transdev have their core routes but in general, I would say much is underserved. Audley Range, Lower Darwen, Highcroft, Eastcroft.
Parts of Tytherington near Macclesfield are only served a few times per (Dorchester Road specifically)

 

[Boo_]

And back in the 80s at the start of the bus wars they would of had lots of bread van type buses fighting on them type of areas

 

[cnjb8]

I've always thought that Kimberley/Watnall/Nuthall is a bit underserved

 

[David Verity]

Mods please delete this post if inappropriate but has anybody any idea of how many estates have lost their bus services because of residents' careless parking or antisocial behaviour?

 

[SCH117X]

Car parking saw off the service through the housing estate to the north of the A59 Knaresborough Road in Harrogate. The estates to the south more recently lost their service albeit not through parking issues while further to the south the only other west east through route has had its service reduced from 3 buses an hour via 2 an hour to a handful of workings. Meanwhile Transdev and Connexions run 12 buses an hour each way along the A59.

 

[Boo_]

Sometimes it better to stick to trunk roads then turn off at every village or housing estate. So long as there a safe walking route and with 1 mile. yes, there some who can`t walk but it not for bus firms but council's to fund services for their needs. more people would use buses if the end to end trip was close to a car.

 

[GusB]

Sometimes it better to stick to trunk roads then turn off at every village or housing estate. So long as there a safe walking route and with 1 mile. yes, there some who can`t walk but it not for bus firms but council's to fund services for their needs. more people would use buses if the end to end trip was close to a car.

At the same time, there's no point in running buses if they don't go anywhere near the people might use them! Perhaps the councils would be better spending their time dealing with the poor parking.

This is getting a little bit away from the original topic, though. If anyone wishes to have a separate thread to discuss it, feel free to start a new one.

 

[anthony263]

Parc Derwen and Broadlands Bridgend have little to no bus services despite developers promising regular services

 

[Boo_]

in Walkden Bellway homes paid £275,880 towards a bus service VH2 from the town to Burgess Farm but this is coming to an end soon as it was only for 5 years. I can`t see anyone wanting to run it without help. they have a Mellor Strata running on the route all day with very little use.

“VH2” Walkden circular bus service launched

A minibus operated by Diamond Buses has recently started running a circular route linking Walkden station with the town centre and Hilton Lane. At first the service was not well-publicised but full…

walkdenstation.wordpress.com

 

[telstarbox]

Sometimes it better to stick to trunk roads then turn off at every village or housing estate. So long as there a safe walking route and with 1 mile. yes, there some who can`t walk but it not for bus firms but council's to fund services for their needs. more people would use buses if the end to end trip was close to a car.

A mile is too far. Typically in the UK we aim for 400 metres as a starting point.

 

[neilmc]

Langdon Hills near Laindon - large estate but only an hourly service
Great Notley near Braintree is pretty unserved. Only a few buses per day
Poynton a town of 14k only served by an hourly bus which winds its way around all of the town.
Much of Blackburn and Darwen is underserved with either no bus or a few per day. I know Transdev have their core routes but in general, I would say much is underserved. Audley Range, Lower Darwen, Highcroft, Eastcroft.
Parts of Tytherington near Macclesfield are only served a few times per (Dorchester Road specifically)

I used to live in Blackburn 30 years ago and was shocked to see how few town buses remain. Audley Range used to have a 20 minute frequency to Shadsworth, plus a 30 minute frequency to Queens Park flats now there's nothing. Higher Croft is a big estate and has something like four buses a day! However the Accrington/Great Harwood circular is positively brimming with buses on a 7.5 minute frequency during the day. It doesn't matter how many operators there are, if they don't want to serve an area they won't. Surely there's a need for buses - frequency and fares - to be put firmly in local authority control, as a reasonably large but not too prosperous town Blackburn and Darwen deserve better than this!

 

[Jordan Adam]

Airyhall and Craigiebuckler in Aberdeen were served by 8 buses per hour with the 11 and X18 operating every 15 minutes, in April 2008 these were directly replaced by the 16 and 16A running every 20 minutes (10 combined), the 16/16A were slowly reduced to a 30 minute frequency (15 combined) until being replaced by a 5 and 15 in 2012. By 2015 the 5 was axed and the 15 became a circular with the evening service axed all together, currently the evening service has been reinstated as the council funded 15A running half hourly operated by Stagecoach Bluebird.

So in the space of 7 years one area went from having 8 buses per hour to just 2. I suspect the main reason was loss in revenue through the concessionary scheme as the vast majority of residents are elderly. The 15 is actually really well used and long overdue a frequency increase.
The council supported evening service 15A pretty much carries fresh air, the contract requirement is for a 35 seater or better bus however Stagecoach have often used Sprinter 44021 on it, council figures showed an average of 7 passengers per night use the service which averages out at less than two people per run.

Current First Service 15 map/timetable: https://bustimes.org/services/15-airyhall-craigiebuckler-sea-beach-circular#map
Supported Evening Service 15A map/timetable: https://bustimes.org/services/15a-city-centre-union-square-craigiebuckler-airyha

Service 16/16A route diagram from 2008.

 

[Redmike]

Although Wilmslow is a prosperous town, many of its estates are poorly served. Colshaw Farm has gone from 3 buses an hour a few years ago with hourly evening and Sunday services to a bus every 90 minutes on Mon to Sat daytime with services to Manchester and Stockport lost.

 

[MP33]

I remember London Buses recorded information used to give locations where the late night service was withdrawn due to vandalism and threats to staff. In the case of the Broadwater Farm Estate in Tottenham the service was withdrawn entirely.

 

[Boo_]

Although Wilmslow is a prosperous town, many of its estates are poorly served. Colshaw Farm has gone from 3 buses an hour a few years ago with hourly evening and Sunday services to a bus every 90 minutes on Mon to Sat daytime with services to Manchester and Stockport lost.

Issue with Wilmslow is Cheshire East they don`t want to fund buses. Reason their little buses after 7:30 and on Sunday is due to they will not fund them.

And TFGM should not fund out of there area bus routes.

The 12 Cheshire bus routes the council can no longer afford

Local authority bosses in the East they are under huge financial pressure and can no longer subsidise the journeys

www.cheshire-live.co.uk

 

[Ostrich]

in Walkden Bellway homes paid £275,880 towards a bus service VH2 from the town to Burgess Farm ........

In Shaftesbury, Persimmon has paid a contribution for the running of a new bus service to The Maltings Estate. However, so as not to have to provide another vehicle on the route, South West Coaches has facilitated this extension of the X2 Gillingham - Shaftesbury service at the Shaftesbury end by scrapping the Gillingham town loop at the other end. So areas of Gillingham have now lost their only bus service ......

 

[daodao]

Poynton a town of 14k only served by an hourly bus which winds its way around all of the town. Parts of Tytherington near Macclesfield are only served a few times per (Dorchester Road specifically).

Poynton, despite its origin as a pit village in the days of coalmining, is now effectively an affluent suburb of Greater Manchester; the residents campaigned successfully to be excluded from the conurbation when its boundaries were agreed in the early 1970s, so it is CEC rather than TfGM that is responsible for subsiding any bus services there. It does have a railway station with an hourly emu service to Manchester (and Stoke) as well as the bus route.

West Tytherington is one of the most affluent parts of Macclesfield and although there are now few bus services along Dorchester Road, there is a regular half-hourly bus (Arriva route 10) serving most of Tytherington.

Colshaw Farm near Handforth is now more poorly served; this is a deprived area some distance from major shops and rail services and its bus service is due to cease completely after 2/10/20, unless CEC can find/fund an alternative provider.

Market Drayton in Salop is now poorly connected; there is no railway station and there are just 2 external routes (both hourly Mon-Sat daytime only) to Shrewsbury and Hanley.

 

[43055]

Mods please delete this post if inappropriate but has anybody any idea of how many estates have lost their bus services because of residents' careless parking or antisocial behaviour?

One area in Burton has had there service reduced because of bad parking at school times. The route use to run from around 7am until 6pm but now runs between 0830 and 3 and is diverted away to another part of town at other times. Not so good for commuters.

Part of the problem at times is that the roads are not big enough for buses. Sometimes I think how does my local route gets round some of the roundabouts on the estate in my village as the roads are quite narrow.

 

[Boo_]

Going to be fun when they ban cars parking on pavements as looking likely.

Government to consider nationwide ban on pavement parking

The government has announced new proposals to ban pavement parking across the country in a bid to make the roads safer for families and disabled people.

uk.motor1.com

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A lot of estates are now poorly served because they were tendered (and have so bit the dust) or are now just tacked onto an inter-urban service.

Someone like @henairs or @CD or @swifty will be able to recall (I think) that Bridgwater had a frequent minibus network of which the main area served was the Sydenham Estate with two different routes? Think the service is now much lower both in terms of frequency and area covered.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I've always thought that Kimberley/Watnall/Nuthall is a bit underserved

Living in Nuthall, we are fine if you live on the main Rainbow One route. Otherwise it's a walk. The demise of Trents Old 331(Watnall Road) & 357(Larkfield & High Spania) left more areas remote from bus services. Part of the problem in Kimberley & Watnall imparticular are the narrow roads and associated parking problems - difficult enough in a car - I was stuck the other day on a bicycle unable to get through!! In fact the Eastwood & Newthorpe Estates with just 3 journeys a day on Nottsbus 535 are probably more isolated.

My other nominations include:
Pastures Hospital Housing Estate at Mickleover in Derby - no service since the Hospital Closed and the Estate was built.
Brownlow Drive Housing Estate at Rise Park in Nottingham - peak 16C and Tesco shopper three times a week.
Grange Farm Estate at Gedling - L74 3 times a day - once had an hourly 7 day a week Trent service to Nottingham.
Vaughan Estate at Hucknall - until the C2 was recently introduced it was without a bus service other than on Papplewick Lane(141).
Parts of Stapleford & Toton only have Nottsbus 510 & 536 for such a large area ie no Evenings or Sundays and not to Nottingham. Not everyone can walk to the Tram!

 

[CD]

A lot of estates are now poorly served because they were tendered (and have so bit the dust) or are now just tacked onto an inter-urban service.

Someone like @henairs or @CD or @swifty will be able to recall (I think) that Bridgwater had a frequent minibus network of which the main area served was the Sydenham Estate with two different routes? Think the service is now much lower both in terms of frequency and area covered.

Out of all the Somerset market towns Bridgwater has suffered the worse. From the days of several fairly frequent routes, it`s now left with just one cross town route with a 70 minute frequency.

 

[johnnychips]

There is an unfortunate paradox. If your route serves a lot of estates it may pick up more passengers, but add to the journey time between the origin and the destination, making that route less desirable as an attraction.

The obvious example is where I live, from Doncaster to Sheffield. Years ago, there used to be an X77, which basically went along the main road, touching the edge of Conisbrough. The X78 went through Conisbrough itself but quite directly; there were other buses from Doncaster itself to serve the Conisbrough estates (197? 193?). Well the X77 ceased and the X78 continued but in the last few years the services to the estates have ceased, and the X78 almost gets back to the main road in Conisbrough to Sheffield, then suddenly takes a sharp left through a housing estate, adding 5-10 minutes.

I do think this bus is the least deserving in the country to have an ‘X’ before it’s number: 1h 20 m to get from Donny to Sheffield.

I am sure @tbtc will be interested in this comment, and possibly have other examples in South Yorkshire.

 

[higthomas]

I think a lot of the problem with these sort of estates is that they're built with the car in mind. The bus is an afterthought, they pay their section 106 money, but after 5 years zilch.

Until we as a nation start building housing with buses/trains/walking/cycling as the primary aim and car as an afterthought it is going to continue happening.

Just for interest this link contains stagecoaches take on building with buses in mind https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAMegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0qEvGGUMiyT4ztlc3tpflW

 

[43055]

Living in Nuthall, we are fine if you live on the main Rainbow One route. Otherwise it's a walk. The demise of Trents Old 331(Watnall Road) & 357(Larkfield & High Spania) left more areas remote from bus services. Part of the problem in Kimberley & Watnall imparticular are the narrow roads and associated parking problems - difficult enough in a car - I was stuck the other day on a bicycle unable to get through!! In fact the Eastwood & Newthorpe Estates with just 3 journeys a day on Nottsbus 535 are probably more isolated.

My other nominations include:
Pastures Hospital Housing Estate at Mickleover in Derby - no service since the Hospital Closed and the Estate was built.
Brownlow Drive Housing Estate at Rise Park in Nottingham - peak 16C and Tesco shopper three times a week.
Grange Farm Estate at Gedling - L74 3 times a day - once had an hourly 7 day a week Trent service to Nottingham.
Vaughan Estate at Hucknall - until the C2 was recently introduced it was without a bus service other than on Papplewick Lane(141).
Parts of Stapleford & Toton only have Nottsbus 510 & 536 for such a large area ie no Evenings or Sundays and not to Nottingham. Not everyone can walk to the Tram!

How big is the Pastures Estate? From the road which the villager takes it does not look big. Maybe once the estate opposite the A516 roundabout is complete you could do a service which takes in both estates?

 

[Simon75]

Bentilee, Stoke on trent (still a good service in the day), but First had a lot of late (past midnight) or very early journeys from the nearby Adderley Green garage to Hanley (as positioning journeys), but now are withdrawn

 

[Statto]

Mods please delete this post if inappropriate but has anybody any idea of how many estates have lost their bus services because of residents' careless parking or antisocial behaviour?

Warrington's Own, 22 Warrington-Ashton, has had to be rerouted in Haydock because of parked cars obstructing buses, that it now goes via Piele Road & Church Road direct & not through the New Boston estate, no buses go through that estate now.