Trivia: Largest settlement not served by any buses

[nw1]

I always find it strange the bus services don't link up to Reading too well from Basingstoke. I suppose there is the train.

True. Though with the bus services through places like Hartley Wintney (which admittedly is more at the intersection of potential routes from Aldershot. Reading, Camberley and Basingstoke rather than on a line from Reading-Basingstoke), you are giving communities with no railway station public transport links.

 

[neilmc]

Eh? I'm not aware of any services which remain as schoolchildren only. Which is not to say there are none, but I'd have expected operators to be pretty keen to get as many passengers on board as they can. Though I doubt that a schools service has much general appeal.

I bet there's loads. For example, there used to be a school day Stagecoach service 506 which ran Appleby-Penrith-Shap-Kendal. This was available to all passengers, and linked in with the three-times-a-week service 106 from Penrith to Kendal, this allowed shoppers to make an afternoon journey to Kendal on the days the 106 was running and return home on the college bus 506. Then - and I don't know whether this was COVID-related on a move by the college - the 506 was withdrawn and replaced by private college transport services which have to be pre-booked. Stagecoach Kendal depot thus had no bus operating to Penrith and the 106 was in peril too, in the end the local bus group entered into a contract with Cumbria Classic Coaches to provide a more substantial service on the 106 allowing a shortish visit to Kendal Tuesday and Friday.

In the south of Cumbria Stagecoach run a service 6C from Barrow to Kendal which is advertised in their timetable as for college students only but in the county timetables it is classed as an X6 running college days only but no mention of being for students only, this is pretty typical of the mess in Cumbria though.

 

[Gloster]

Eh? I'm not aware of any services which remain as schoolchildren only. Which is not to say there are none, but I'd have expected operators to be pretty keen to get as many passengers on board as they can. Though I doubt that a schools service has much general appeal.

I believe that Southern Vectis’ school routes are children only and I think it predates Covid. It may be a council requirement.

 

[nw1]

I believe that Southern Vectis’ school routes are children only and I think it predates Covid. It may be a council requirement.

I think it's always been the case (since the 80s at least) that school routes divide into two, 'public' routes, advertised in the public timetable, and 'private' routes, which aren't. The former have route numbers and the others don't necessarily; in the 80s, when VRs were the typical vehicles, the latter might jave displayed 000 as a route number and 'Private' as the destination while the latter might have displayed something like, say, '502 Woolmer Hill School' (the 502 being an all-day route, but with some specific school journeys). I think the 'public' routes accounted for the majority but there were definitely some 'private' ones as well.

 

[markymark2000]

This is where more joined up thinking would be beneficial. Sadly modern legislation and enhanced partnerships are making it progressively more difficult to use vehicles for both home to school transport and local bus services. It isn't the school transport which loses out as a result.

Probably worth another thread but how does modern legislation and EPs make this more difficult. If anything, it could enhance surely? A council could say 'if we give you this school, you must provide a between school service though an area' which is at least how EPs are being sold to us. It allows councils to negotiate with operators so if they do one thing, the operators give back.

 

[Citistar]

Probably worth another thread but how does modern legislation and EPs make this more difficult. If anything, it could enhance surely? A council could say 'if we give you this school, you must provide a between school service though an area' which is at least how EPs are being sold to us. It allows councils to negotiate with operators so if they do one thing, the operators give back.

Well for example, i operate a closed door home to school contract which requires a seatbelted vehicle and not a great deal else. This doesn't have a huge capital cost to comply with and is currently provided using a seatbelted Solo. The same vehicle also operates three bus services - one daily after the school run and two shoppers buses on Tuesday and Thursday. Once the obligations of the Enhanced Partnership come in, if i want to remain recognised as a part of the local bus network, this vehicle needs to be Euro VI. It is eyewateringly difficult it is to find a seatbelted, PSVAR compliant vehicle which will both fit around the bus services and provide enough seats for the school run. The only solutions available to me are either to retrofit an existing Euro VI vehicle with belted seats or to buy new, both of which make the economics of providing the bus services completely fail. There is an option for continuing to run as an exempted service, but this is for a limited time and doesn't solve the problem.

The councils with whom i am dealing have no interest in negotiation. Operators are being dictated to and told that anything we want to bring to the table (such as the use of Section 19/22, procurement techniques and consultation over LTA led changes) is irrelevant to the discussion and immediately closed down. The staff have gone power crazy and little bus companies providing services other than the main corridors simply do not matter to them. We are viewed as acceptable collateral damage and a good excuse for them to replace established routes with DRT.

 

[markymark2000]

Well for example, i operate a closed door home to school contract which requires a seatbelted vehicle and not a great deal else. This doesn't have a huge capital cost to comply with and is currently provided using a seatbelted Solo. The same vehicle also operates three bus services - one daily after the school run and two shoppers buses on Tuesday and Thursday. Once the obligations of the Enhanced Partnership come in, if i want to remain recognised as a part of the local bus network, this vehicle needs to be Euro VI. It is eyewateringly difficult it is to find a seatbelted, PSVAR compliant vehicle which will both fit around the bus services and provide enough seats for the school run. The only solutions available to me are either to retrofit an existing Euro VI vehicle with belted seats or to buy new, both of which make the economics of providing the bus services completely fail. There is an option for continuing to run as an exempted service, but this is for a limited time and doesn't solve the problem.

The councils with whom i am dealing have no interest in negotiation. Operators are being dictated to and told that anything we want to bring to the table (such as the use of Section 19/22, procurement techniques and consultation over LTA led changes) is irrelevant to the discussion and immediately closed down. The staff have gone power crazy and little bus companies providing services other than the main corridors simply do not matter to them. We are viewed as acceptable collateral damage and a good excuse for them to replace established routes with DRT.

Unfortunately, I feel like that may be a local specific thing with your very anti bus local authority. Wales is completely the same.

 

[skifans]

St Bees (population 1800) doesn't have any buses, although one would assume that there are some that serve the public school. It does have a station, however.

Looks like St Bees is getting a bus back from April - https://cumbria.gov.uk/buses/HB01/ - although its a single return trip to Whitehaven giving 3 hours there Mondays to Thursdays only.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Gosforth in Cumbria has a population of about 1000 and I don't think it has a bus service these days. There used to be the occasional Whitehaven to Seascale service
and these went via Gosforth.
It certainly doesn't have a railway station!

 

[daodao]

Gosforth in Cumbria has a population of about 1000 and I don't think it has a bus service these days. There used to be the occasional Whitehaven to Seascale service and these went via Gosforth.

A new bus service (Hobans HB01) from Whitehaven to Seascale via Gosforth is due to be introduced on 11 April 2022, running Monday to Thursday, according to the Cumbria County Council website.

Your local council services are now being provided either by Cumberland or Westmorland and Furness

cumbria.gov.uk

 

[OhNoAPacer]

A new bus service (Hobans HB01) from Whitehaven to Seascale via Gosforth is due to be introduced on 11 April 2022, running Monday to Thursday, according to the Cumbria County Council website.

Your local council services are now being provided either by Cumberland or Westmorland and Furness

cumbria.gov.uk

Looking at this route it would appear that it goes from Egremont to St Bees via Outrigg, will be fun seeing a bus go down or up there, though I assume it will not be a full size bus.

 

[Zamracene749]

Wynyard 'village' ,on the A689 west of Billingham. Estimated population of 3500 two years ago, it's still growing and has no bus services at all other than a school bus and one serving a college. Nearby Wolviston (pop 900) also no longer has a regular bus. Perhaps one of the 30 minute frequency Arriva X12 services could be diverted this way between Sedgefield and Middlesbrough, since for much of that section the now faster X22 runs parallel and at much the same time?

 

[hermit]

The population of 3,613 given for Havenstreet includes Ashey and Haylands. The latter is really a part of Ryde and has an hourly bus service.

EDIT: The Ryde town (one-way) circular (37) that serves Haylands also passes within a couple of hundred yards of Havenstreet village and there is a stop.





The school closed in 2015 but reopened in 2018. It doesn’t have many pupils, although some are day ones.

Havenstreet village, though certainly considerably smaller than 3500 in population, is arguably the largest settlement on the island that has lost its service completely in recent years. At one time it was served frequently by one of the variants of the Newport to Ryde route. Its loss of services is apparently due to the arch of the Steam Railway bridge being deemed to be too low to take doubledeckers following the resurfacing of the road. For a time Southern Vectis ran a single decker (route 33?) from Ryde to Newport via Havenstreet, Robin Hill and the Blackwater turn, but that is no more.

The stop on route 37 is pretty useless. It may be only 200 yards from the northern edge of the village, but, Havenstreet being a linear settlement, it’s much more than that from the village centre and something like a mile from the station. It also involves a walk along a busy unlit road with no pavement. I doubt if it gets used much if at all.