Trivia - Most useless speed limits

[PGAT]

Speed limits that are completely useless because the trains using them cannot reach the speed, or because of an upcoming speed restriction.

I’ll start: Gloucester Road Junction to West Croydon, huge jump up from 15/20 mph to 60 mph but cannot be reached due to the upcoming 45 mph speed restriction and most passenger trains only reaching 40 anyway.

 

[D6130]

The 60 mph limit on the Up Shipley line between Skipton South and the former LMR/ER regional boundary at Snaygill, about a mile to the East. When I moved to Skipton in 1991, both lines on that stretch were limited to 60 because the LMR had declined to spend money on the life-expired jointed track which, by that time, had a lot of rotten sleepers, dipped joints and wet beds. As part of the resignalling and electrification programme in the mid-1990s, both lines were relayed with concrete-sleepered CWR and deep ballast. It was deemed necessary to retain the 60 limit on the down line due to the installation of 'closing-up' signals approaching Skipton....but the Permanent Way Supervisor at the time told me that Railtrack didn't want to go to the trouble and expense of doing the necessary paperwork to raise the up line limit, even though it was now fit for 90 mph and had the appropriate braking distance between signals. As a result, electric trains departing from Skipton to this day have to dawdle along at 60 mph almost half-way to Cononley before they can accelerate fully....and then cannot reach line speed (except for the London trains) because they have to start braking for the stop at Cononley.

 

[High Dyke]

Once had to stop and caution trains for a Emergency Speed Restriction (ESR) of 20mph maximum through a 15mph junction.

 

[Ken H]

The 60 mph limit on the Up Shipley line between Skipton South and the former LMR/ER regional boundary at Snaygill, about a mile to the East. When I moved to Skipton in 1991, both lines on that stretch were limited to 60 because the LMR had declined to spend money on the life-expired jointed track which, by that time, had a lot of rotten sleepers, dipped joints and wet beds. As part of the resignalling and electrification programme in the mid-1990s, both lines were relayed with concrete-sleepered CWR and deep ballast. It was deemed necessary to retain the 60 limit on the down line due to the installation of 'closing-up' signals approaching Skipton....but the Permanent Way Supervisor at the time told me that Railtrack didn't want to go to the trouble and expense of doing the necessary paperwork to raise the up line limit, even though it was now fit for 90 mph and had the appropriate braking distance between signals. As a result, electric trains departing from Skipton to this day have to dawdle along at 60 mph almost half-way to Cononley before they can accelerate fully....and then cannot reach line speed (except for the London trains) because they have to start braking for the stop at Cononley.

The other side of Skipton the lines to Lancaster and acarlosle could do with an increase from 60. 70 would be better.

 

[30907]

Speed limits that are completely useless because the trains using them cannot reach the speed, or because of an upcoming speed restriction.

I’ll start: Gloucester Road Junction to West Croydon, huge jump up from 15/20 mph to 60 mph but cannot be reached due to the upcoming 45 mph speed restriction and most passenger trains only reaching 40 anyway.

Presumably 60 is (historically) the SR suburban area line limit so applies by default, rather like the national speed limit does on roads?

 

[notadriver]

90 on down fast from Slade lane jct towards manchester picc (from 75 mph)

 

[D6130]

The other side of Skipton the lines to Lancaster and acarlosle could do with an increase from 60. 70 would be better.

Very true.....but that would involve increasing the maintenance budget. Historically the maximum line speed between Skipton and Hellifield was always a mixture of 60 and 65 due to the sharp reverse curves, but from Hellifield Northwards the former Settle & Carlisle line speed of 80 mph applied.....although it was - and still is - 60 on the Bentham line, again due to the curvature.

 

[WizCastro197]

10mph in and out of Lewes Brighton Bound seems a little stupid. It seems to be because of a bridge but I am sure that there are many other stations that have a bridge running over them that don’t have 10MPH restriction?

 

[dk1]

So many on the Breckland line between Ely & Norwich. Most of the route East of Lakenheath signalled for 90mph in 2012 yet there are several stretches of 75 along with 90-80-90 for signal sighting that’s long gone.

 

[geoffk]

Not sure if this is what the OP is asking for, but when I travelled on the Blackburn - Clitheroe line it was always very slow (40 mph?). I was told the speed limit was dictated by the use of Pacers (and this probably applied on other lines too). Now the Pacers have gone, can these limits be raised?

 

[Bevan Price]

Not sure if this is what the OP is asking for, but when I travelled on the Blackburn - Clitheroe line it was always very slow (40 mph?). I was told the speed limit was dictated by the use of Pacers (and this probably applied on other lines too). Now the Pacers have gone, can these limits be raised?

More likely a remnant of when Blackburn / Hellifield was freight only (but approved for passenger train diversions via Setlle & Carlisle line. )

And for many years after reopening, Clitheroe line passenger services were almost exclusively Class 150 or 156.

 

[43066]

Several pointless 60s on the north Kent line, especially around the Woolwich stations, from memory.

Historically the 15mph into Leicester on the down, thankfully removed a year or so ago.

 

[Efini92]

Not sure if this is what the OP is asking for, but when I travelled on the Blackburn - Clitheroe line it was always very slow (40 mph?). I was told the speed limit was dictated by the use of Pacers (and this probably applied on other lines too). Now the Pacers have gone, can these limits be raised?

Not quite. The linespeed is 30/45 and the appendix listed the 45 as applying to class 1,2,3 & 5 trains composed entirely of bogie coaching stock vehicles. Because 142’s didn't have bogies they were restricted to 30. Eventually the appendix was updated to include 142’s to run at 45.
It’s unlikely the linespeed will increase as higher linespeed requires more frequent maintenance.

 

[D6130]

Because 142’s did have bogies they were restricted to 30.

Think you meant to Type 'Because 142s did not have bogies!

It’s unlikely the linespeed will increase as higher linespeed requires more frequent maintenance.

Correct....and specifically a higher maintenance budget, even if it's not all used. Additionally, there is a 30mph limit for all trains in both directions across Whalley viaduct, due to it's poor condition. I suspect that most of the maintenance budget for the line is soaked-up by said structure.

 

[Purple Train]

10mph in and out of Lewes Brighton Bound seems a little stupid. It seems to be because of a bridge but I am sure that there are many other stations that have a bridge running over them that don’t have 10MPH restriction?

I don't think there are many bridges that have such tight clearances as the Lewes example though.

 

[Statto]

Merseyrail trains in passenger service can't reach most of the 60mph limits, due to next station approaching quite quickly.

 

[Efini92]

Think you meant to Type 'Because 142s did not have bogies!

Correct....and specifically a higher maintenance budget, even if it's not all used. Additionally, there is a 30mph limit for all trains in both directions across Whalley viaduct, due to its poor condition. I suspect that most of the maintenance budget for the line is soaked-up by said structure.

Oops, you’re quite right. I’ve corrected it.
When did the 30 come in for whalley viaduct?

 

[E27007]

Some speed limits are due to the rolling stock, Staines had a low limit through the station due to the 455 stock, the airbag suspension of the 455 was the issue at Staines

 

[D6975]

There are quite a few examples of 'main line' speeds extending towards terminus stations that run way too close to the bufferstops to be of any use whatsoever, Penzance is just one example.

 

[Teddyward]

The 30mph London side of billericay.

 

[TheEdge]

Sheringham branch between Norwich and Salhouse.

Down road, 45mph, up road, 75mph. Because why not?

 

[Urobach]

Approaching Micklefield junction from the Hull direction, there's a very brief increase in line speed from 70 to 90 before reducing back to 70 for the junction

There's also a quick 40/50SP > 60 > 45/55SP in the Kirkham Abbey area on the York to Scarborough line

 

[Unstoppable]

90mph County March Summit in the down direction between Forsinard and Altnabreac on the Far north Road to Wick. It can only be achieved with a high performing set followed by a full service brake application

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There’s a really stupid one south of Salisbury, approaching from the Romsey direction. The 85mph linespeed drops to 35mph for the severe Milford Curve, rises to 85mph again but within half a mile the linespeed is down to 30mph again for the curve at Laverstock South Jcn and then 20mph at Salisbury Tunnel Jcn. The 85mph segment is so short that you get the advance warning board for the 30mph before you’ve even exited the 35mph section at Milford!

(One wonders what the marginal cost of this is. Having ridden over it last week, 50mph is all that is needed between Laverstock and Milford - professional driving policy probably means some drivers won’t even achieve that modest speed before braking again.)

 

[30907]

Sheringham branch between Norwich and Salhouse.

Down road, 45mph, up road, 75mph. Because why not?

One line bullhead, the other CWR? Sighting for the LCs approaching Salhouse (given the recent history on that route)?

There’s a really stupid one south of Salisbury, approaching from the Romsey direction. The 85mph linespeed drops to 35mph for the severe Milford Curve, rises to 85mph again but within half a mile the linespeed is down to 30mph again for the curve at Laverstock South Jcn and then 20mph at Salisbury Tunnel Jcn. The 85mph segment is so short that you get the advance warning board for the 30mph before you’ve even exited the 35mph section at Milford!

(One wonders what the marginal cost of this is. )

Another case of the default speed being set by route (85mph for SR steam!) - someone may know whether that section will be maintained differently to the two curves, but I doubt it.

 

[McRhu]

Does this qualify? At a location on the ScR which shall remain nameless. I suppose it's cheaper than putting up a red light.

 

[Watershed]

Does this qualify? At a location on the ScR which shall remain nameless. I suppose it's cheaper than putting up a red light.

plenty of others like that out there.

 

[LAX54]

Once had to stop and caution trains for a Emergency Speed Restriction (ESR) of 20mph maximum through a 15mph junction.

If an ESR is to be placed, and its discovered the line speed is lower, the Pway will stay with the line speed, in this case 15mph.
You cannot have an ESR higher than the line speed.

 

[D6130]

Does this qualify? At a location on the ScR which shall remain nameless. I suppose it's cheaper than putting up a red light.

I take it that the 'one' and the other 'zero' are missing then. Or has the Lanark branch not yet been upgraded for those sort of speeds?

 

[McRhu]

I take it that the 'one' and the other 'zero' are missing then. Or has the Lanark branch not yet been upgraded for those sort of speeds?

The bullhead rail on the final straight puts a dampener on things.