Trivia: places with infrequent trains to London and similarly rare services.

[507020]

I have noticed that Banbury has regular Chiltern services to Marylebone, regular CrossCountry services to Oxford and Reading and Regular GWR services run with Turbos, but there is a once a day through IET to Paddington. Similarly Melton Mowbray has regular CrossCountry services to various destinations, but very few EMR services to Corby and Kettering, only one of which runs through to St Pancras in the path of a Connect electric service and Northampton has regular services run with Desiros between Birmingham and Euston, but a few 319s in the peak and one Pendolino to Euston late at night.

Which other stations are able to boast only one (or more than one, but still irregular) service a day to London, run with a different type of train, to a different London terminus or elsewhere (not to London) that provide a more interesting way to get somewhere than the all day services that are available?

 

[Parallel]

Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon have one very early morning IET to London Paddington and nothing in the return direction.

Keynsham has one IET to London Paddington at 17:36 and one arriving from London Paddington at 08:06.

Kidwelly and Ferryside have one morning call on a GWR IET and a return service in the evening.

Frome and Bruton have infrequent direct services to London formed of an IET if GWR (Frome) or a Class 159 if SWR (Frome and Bruton). Yeovil Pen Mill and Warminster also have infrequent direct trains to London Waterloo. (Might show as Salisbury in RTT but usually show as London Waterloo on station dot-matrix boards).

Ashchurch for Tewkesbury has infrequent direct trains to/from London Paddington, also formed of an IET.

 

[Trainfan2019]

If any of them still run these days there is/was the EMR London services from Yorkshire. Still via Sheffield but not starting or terminating at Sheffield. About 1 or 2 a day.

 

[py_megapixel]

Before about 2018, some south Manchester commuter routes that would ordinarily terminate at Manchester Piccadilly had one or two random services per day that continued through Castlefield - for example, the odd train from Hazel Grove going through in the direction of Bolton and Preston. This of course meant that passengers could travel to Manchester Oxford Road or even Deansgate, which would usually have required a change.

Of course, with how congested Castlefield is now even with its basic service pattern, this sort of thing is mostly gone, though there is still the odd example (such as the early-morning Stoke-on-Trent to Blackpool stopper).

 

[StephenHunter]

Fort William and a bunch of stations on the West Highland line via Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[totally]

Carmarthen has one up and one down train to Paddington on Weekdays, but 3 on Sundays!

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Watford and Croxley on the Metropolitan Line have three trains a day to / from Rickmansworth. The remainder are to / from Baker Street and beyond.

 

[TXMISTA]

Bagshot, Camberley and Frimley get one or two direct London Waterloo services Mon-Fri. They’ve seen quite a diverse range of stock too, with 450s, 456s and 458s all having been used in recent history.

 

[BJames]

If any of them still run these days there is/was the EMR London services from Yorkshire. Still via Sheffield but not starting or terminating at Sheffield. About 1 or 2 a day.

These don't run anymore - all now terminate at Sheffield.

 

[swt_passenger]

If any of them still run these days there is/was the EMR London services from Yorkshire. Still via Sheffield but not starting or terminating at Sheffield. About 1 or 2 a day.

They don’t run beyond Sheffield now. The last service to Leeds ran up until the last May timetable change, but it was only a single northbound train from London. The return leg from Leeds only went to Derby.

 

[JD2168]

There is a Train on Sunday’s from Sheffield that starts at Nottingham & runs to Leeds as the normal semi fast service but carries on to Carlisle via Settle. It only runs in one direction.

 

[telstarbox]

Until the 2000s Cannon Street would be the classic example as it was served by weekday peak services only - this still applies to the longer distance Southeastern routes.

 

[Kite159]

There is a Train on Sunday’s from Sheffield that starts at Nottingham & runs to Leeds as the normal semi fast service but carries on to Carlisle via Settle. It only runs in one direction.

Returns to Nottingham as the 1E20 1520 Carlisle to Nottingham service, all be all stations to Skipton rather than semi-fast

-------

Tiny Menheniot & Devonport getting one London train a day with the 0605 Penzance to London Paddington service, no return direct service.

 

[507020]

Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon have one very early morning IET to London Paddington and nothing in the return direction.

Keynsham has one IET to London Paddington at 17:36 and one arriving from London Paddington at 08:06.

Kidwelly and Ferryside have one morning call on a GWR IET and a return service in the evening.

Frome and Bruton have infrequent direct services to London formed of an IET if GWR (Frome) or a Class 159 if SWR (Frome and Bruton). Yeovil Pen Mill and Warminster also have infrequent direct trains to London Waterloo. (Might show as Salisbury in RTT but usually show as London Waterloo on station dot-matrix boards).

Ashchurch for Tewkesbury has infrequent direct trains to/from London Paddington, also formed of an IET.

I will have to look into these further as all provide additional services to London.

If any of them still run these days there is/was the EMR London services from Yorkshire. Still via Sheffield but not starting or terminating at Sheffield. About 1 or 2 a day.

I am very interested in EMR services beyond Sheffield to Leeds as they should form a significant part of the Sheffield - Leeds provision which is fundamentally flawed otherwise.

Before about 2018, some south Manchester commuter routes that would ordinarily terminate at Manchester Piccadilly had one or two random services per day that continued through Castlefield - for example, the odd train from Hazel Grove going through in the direction of Bolton and Preston. This of course meant that passengers could travel to Manchester Oxford Road or even Deansgate, which would usually have required a change.

Of course, with how congested Castlefield is now even with its basic service pattern, this sort of thing is mostly gone, though there is still the odd example (such as the early-morning Stoke-on-Trent to Blackpool stopper).

I am a witness to the unreliability of the South Junction portion of Castlefield as I am now a volunteer at the National Trust’s Castlefield Viaduct. I am aware that as ludicrous a service as Southport - Alderley Edge only exists because of progressive extension from the main shed at Piccadilly via Castlefield, but these extensions are no longer a priority as of the MRTF timetable and proposals, but since this is also flawed it will require another recast soon afterwards, giving at least a full Southport - Piccadilly - Airport service.

 

[507020]

Fort William and a bunch of stations on the West Highland line via Caledonian Sleeper.

Carmarthen has one up and one down train to Paddington on Weekdays, but 3 on Sundays!

Yes I am aware of infrequent ScotRail and TfW services. It is very good that both of them exist.

Watford and Croxley on the Metropolitan Line have three trains a day to / from Rickmansworth. The remainder are to / from Baker Street and beyond.

I also intend to further investigate the Met electric tube services. I believe there are direct services Chesham - Watford and Amersham limited stop - Baker Street before joining the main underground Circle.

Bagshot, Camberley and Frimley get one or two direct London Waterloo services Mon-Fri. They’ve seen quite a diverse range of stock too, with 450s, 456s and 458s all having been used in recent history.

Aren’t there also rare SWR weekend services to Waterloo?

They don’t run beyond Sheffield now. The last service to Leeds ran up until the last May timetable change, but it was only a single northbound train from London. The return leg from Leeds only went to Derby.

There is a Train on Sunday’s from Sheffield that starts at Nottingham & runs to Leeds as the normal semi fast service but carries on to Carlisle via Settle. It only runs in one direction.

These may be able to return following the appointment of a new transport secretary.

Returns to Nottingham as the 1E20 1520 Carlisle to Nottingham service, all be all stations to Skipton rather than semi-fast

I am aware of Carlisle - Sheffield and Nottingham services as extensions of Carlisle - Leeds and also a daily Skipton - Kings Cross LNER service, all of which sound interesting to me.

 

[py_megapixel]

I am very interested in EMR services beyond Sheffield to Leeds as they should form a significant part of the Sheffield - Leeds provision which is fundamentally flawed otherwise.

I imagine most of the capacity on that route is provided by CrossCountry. Anything that takes passengers off their services is a good idea as far as I'm concerned, given how overcrowded they are.

I am a witness to the unreliability of the South Junction portion of Castlefield as I am now a volunteer at the National Trust’s Castlefield Viaduct. I am aware that as ludicrous a service as Southport - Alderley Edge only exists because of progressive extension from the main shed at Piccadilly via Castlefield, but these extensions are no longer a priority as of the MRTF timetable and proposals, but since this is also flawed it will require another recast soon afterwards, giving at least a full Southport - Piccadilly - Airport service.

The purpose of the new Castlefield timetable is to prune the service enough that the overcrowding is reduced and delays don't cause knock-on effects to the notorious extent they do now. If it's successful in that regard, I really hope they just leave it alone and stop messing with it until/unless the improvements at Piccadilly and Oxford Road (planned, since mothballed) go ahead.

I think Manchester needs the Corridor to work reliably more than it needs one train per day from Adlington to Adlington!

 

[Ken H]

A few posts above about St Pancras - Leeds services. They started in BR days to get HSTs to Neville Hill. Now EMR have binned their HSTs there is no need to run north of Sheffield

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Melton Mowbray and Oakham have just one service each way to London St Pancras provided by EMT, neither of which seem to run at times when most people would want to travel. Presumably this is primarily a route knowledge trip for EMT drivers on the rarely used section between Corby and Manton Jn?

 

[507020]

I imagine most of the capacity on that route is provided by CrossCountry. Anything that takes passengers off their services is a good idea as far as I'm concerned, given how overcrowded they are.

Do you mean that EMR should take passengers off CrossCountry because their services are overcrowded or vice versa? There may not be an inherent need for direct Leeds - St Pancras services in addition to Leeds - Kings Cross, but there could certainly be a need for increased Sheffield - Leeds capacity provided by extensions of the St Pancras - Sheffield services.

I imagine most of the capacity on that route is provided by CrossCountry. Anything that takes passengers off their services is a good idea as far as I'm concerned, given how overcrowded they are.


The purpose of the new Castlefield timetable is to prune the service enough that the overcrowding is reduced and delays don't cause knock-on effects to the notorious extent they do now. If it's successful in that regard, I really hope they just leave it alone and stop messing with it until/unless the improvements at Piccadilly and Oxford Road (planned, since mothballed) go ahead.

I think Manchester needs the Corridor to work reliably more than it needs one train per day from Adlington to Adlington!

I agree with the sentiment of simplifying the service pattern through Castlefield in order to mitigate the current issues, but I find that the MRTF option B+ will be unworkable in the long term and need recasting again due to the number of compromises made. By all means run a standard half hourly pattern through Manchester, but with maximum local connectivity at either end.

In particular the Southport service cannot terminate at Oxford Road since reversing at Oxford Road has a larger adverse affect on capacity than running through and connections to/from Piccadilly will be made very difficult. I don’t know why they can’t run a clockface half hourly Bolton - Manchester Airport with one extended to Blackpool North with a double 331 and one extended to Southport with a 769, even if the Southport service was given the all stops path to the Airport, given that there will be a clockface half hourly CLC - Hope Valley service giving Warrington Central - Sheffield connections, but run by TPE with 185s and 68+Mk5a sets and extended to Cleethorpes and by EMR with 158s and even 156s and extended to Norwich. There is no need for a 2tph Blackpool North - Manchester Airport. The 2nd Blackpool should run to Hazel Grove, which will be left without an electric service.

I don’t see why the Stoke-on-Trent stopper should run via Castlefield and it doesn’t, but the one train a day from Adlington to Adlington runs early enough in the day so as not to disrupt things too much. I believe that the MP for Bolton wants a through Pendolino from Bolton to Euston via Castlefield, which would not be able to call at Piccadilly. That is exactly the kind of extension that resulted in the mess we’ve found ourselves in.

Melton Mowbray and Oakham have just one service each way to London St Pancras provided by EMT, neither of which seem to run at times when most people would want to travel. Presumably this is primarily a route knowledge trip for EMT drivers on the rarely used section between Corby and Manton Jn?

The Melton Mowbray - St Pancras service including the rare track between Corby and Manton Junction was one I mentioned in my original post!

I have also remembered that Skipton has 1 train a day to Kings Cross which is run by a 91 in the morning.

 

[AndyW33]

I am very interested in EMR services beyond Sheffield to Leeds as they should form a significant part of the Sheffield - Leeds provision which is fundamentally flawed otherwise.

Thing is, these services (since privatisation) have never formed a significant part of the Sheffield-Leeds provision. They ran southbound at the beginning of the day, and northbound at the end of the day, almost solely to get HSTs based at Neville Hill depot to and from Sheffield at the start or finish of services. They ran in service as a better option than running empty. Once the HSTs time ended on EMR, there was no need to get stock to and from Neville Hill, so the last of these exceptionally lightly loaded services ended with the May timetable change. The times they ran at were almost useless to people who wanted to travel just between Leeds and Sheffield, but did offer some help to people travelling between Leeds and the East Midlands.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Belper's another odd example. Just one weekday direct train to London at 1758. No direct train back. Why?

 

[Kite159]

Belper's another odd example. Just one weekday direct train to London at 1758. No direct train back. Why?

That's probably more for residents of Belper who work in Chesterfield/Sheffield to avoid having to double back via Derby.

 

[rg177]

That's probably more for residents of Belper who work in Chesterfield/Sheffield to avoid having to double back via Derby.

Indeed it has a morning equivalent of a Sprinter pairing from Derby that then heads to Norwich after terminating at Sheffield.

Unusually the calling pattern is Belper and Dronfield only on that one.

 

[Kite159]

Indeed it has a morning equivalent of a Sprinter pairing from Derby that then heads to Norwich after terminating at Sheffield.

Unusually the calling pattern is Belper and Dronfield only on that one.

Indeed, so not much help if you live in Belper and commute to Chesterfield, as you will need to double back via Derby

 

[Western 52]

Tenby has one train on weekdays from Manchester, and none to Manchester.

 

[507020]

Tenby has one train on weekdays from Manchester, and none to Manchester.

I am aware of this one

I have noticed Lincoln Central has 2 trains to and 1 train from St Pancras in addition to 6 trains to and from Kings Cross, but unlike the Corby service, I'm assuming they aren't the only services that run on the line.

 

[Springs Branch]

Bagshot, Camberley and Frimley get one or two direct London Waterloo services Mon-Fri. They’ve seen quite a diverse range of stock too, with 450s, 456s and 458s all having been used in recent history.

A similar situation in Southeastern-land, where the Medway Valley line has an all-day diet of Electrostar shuttles between Strood and Paddock Wood / Tonbridge, except for Mon-Fri peaks when Maidstone West and Snodland get a couple of through trains to/from St Pancras International formed of Class 395 Javelins.

Until the 2000s Cannon Street would be the classic example as it was served by weekday peak services only - this still applies to the longer distance Southeastern routes.

I was surprised to see Strood now gets only two trains per day to Charing Cross, and one per day back (with nothing to/from Cannon St). There are plenty of trains between Strood and London, of course, but these days they almost all go to either St Pancras on HS1, or Blackfriars and the TL Core.

 

[BJames]

I am aware of this one

I have noticed Lincoln Central has 2 trains to and 1 train from St Pancras in addition to 6 trains to and from Kings Cross, but unlike the Corby service, I'm assuming they aren't the only services that run on the line.

Correct - serviced by a Leicester-Nottingham-Lincoln-Grimsby service approximately every hour (some terminate at Lincoln rather than continuing to Grimsby I believe). As far up as Newark Castle there are also the Crewe-Newark Castle services.

I've taken the evening departure from St Pancras as far as Nottingham - last time I used it the vast majority of people alighted at Nottingham and it was lightly loaded continuing to Newark and Lincoln (but this was on an evening that it was a planned diversion via Corby so it was a lot slower and probably less useful for people both in London and Nottingham - not sure if this reflects normal loadings).

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

Carmarthen has one up and one down train to Paddington on Weekdays, but 3 on Sundays!

And I believe GWR used to run a single service from Pembroke Dock to Paddington with HST sets.

Not sure whether it's being reinstated at some point...

 

[SeanG]

Middlesbrough has 1tpd to/from Kings Cross.

Until recently Sunderland had 1tpd to/from Kings Cross via Newcastle (LNER) and many more via Hartlepool (GC) although I believe that the LNER service has now been curtailed to start from Newcastle.