Trivia: Rare and unusual bus and coach types

[GusB]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this so far, and I'm kicking myself for not having realised sooner, but the MCW Metroliner is in with a shout here.

There was a total of 21 of the original single-deck examples built:

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

They were spread across five operators, three of which had "East" in their names! (East Kent, Eastern Scottish (Scottish Omnibuses), Eastern National)

There were only 21 single-deck (Hi-Liner) versions built:

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

Finally, while there were 154 normal double-deck Metroliners built, the 400GT model, designed to fit within the 4m height limit, numbered only 3:

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

Thanks to victoryguy.smugmug.com for the rabbit hole that I've been down for the last two hours!

 

[Worm]

What I understand to be a fairly rare type was the Dennis Dart SLF with Wright Crusader bodywork. First Manchester had a 1996 batch at Oldham.

 

[GusB]

What I understand to be a fairly rare type was the Dennis Dart SLF with Wright Crusader bodywork. First Manchester had a 1996 batch at Oldham.

Buslistsontheweb.co.uk disagrees with you in a big way. The list for Wright Crusader stretches to 425 records; granted, not all are Dart SLFs, but if you look down the list you'll see that it's in no way a rare type.

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

 

[Swanny200]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this so far, and I'm kicking myself for not having realised sooner, but the MCW Metroliner is in with a shout here.

There was a total of 21 of the original single-deck examples built:

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

They were spread across five operators, three of which had "East" in their names! (East Kent, Eastern Scottish (Scottish Omnibuses), Eastern National)

There were only 21 single-deck (Hi-Liner) versions built:

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

Finally, while there were 154 normal double-deck Metroliners built, the 400GT model, designed to fit within the 4m height limit, numbered only 3:

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

Thanks to victoryguy.smugmug.com for the rabbit hole that I've been down for the last two hours!

If I remember correctly, I travelled on both of Northerns sets of Metroliners during their time there and one of Grampians Hi-Liners and am almost sure that one of Grampians examples was the Aberdeen F.C team bus for a very brief time, used to sit at Guild Street waiting for my Gran who worked across the road at one of the private bars and loved when the Metroliners came in as it was different to the other stock that you would see.

 

[DunsBus]

If I remember correctly, I travelled on both of Northerns sets of Metroliners during their time there and one of Grampians Hi-Liners and am almost sure that one of Grampians examples was the Aberdeen F.C team bus for a very brief time, used to sit at Guild Street waiting for my Gran who worked across the road at one of the private bars and loved when the Metroliners came in as it was different to the other stock that you would see.

One of the Eastern Scottish pair was the coach involved in the fatal M6 accident in October 1985 - XCM334, A334BSC.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Not yet mentioned is NJA568W/GMT 1451, a Northern Counties bodied Olympian prototype. Although in general terms the body was a development of the long established GM standard style this vehicle was unusual in having a Nottingham style front bumper. Although NC had built plenty of Atlanteans for NCT only 2 Olympians, to the usual Nottingham specification, were built for that operator. As such I think this vehicle was unique.

It's also likely to have been noticed by many rail fans, whether or not they had an interest in buses, as it spent much of its time on route 59, the only service apart from the Centreline to reach Manchester Piccadilly station approach.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Not yet mentioned is NJA568W/GMT 1451, a Northern Counties bodied Olympian prototype. Although in general terms the body was a development of the long established GM standard style this vehicle was unusual in having a Nottingham style front bumper. Although NC had built plenty of Atlanteans for NCT only 2 Olympians, to the usual Nottingham specification, were built for that operator. As such I think this vehicle was unique.

It's also likely to have been noticed by many rail fans, whether or not they had an interest in buses, as it spent much of its time on route 59, the only service apart from the Centreline to reach Manchester Piccadilly station approach.

Chester had the same style of body minus the bumper plus one or two others, I don't think a bumper counts as rare...

 

[DunsBus]

Chester had the same style of body minus the bumper plus one or two others, I don't think a bumper counts as rare...

Have to agree, whilst the body was on one of the Olympian prototype chassis it was to all intents and purposes a GM Standard but built on an Olympian rather than an Atlantean. The front bumper was fitted to a number of buses around that time.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this so far, and I'm kicking myself for not having realised sooner, but the MCW Metroliner is in with a shout here.

Finally, while there were 154 normal double-deck Metroliners built, the 400GT model, designed to fit within the 4m height limit, numbered only 3:

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

Thanks to victoryguy.smugmug.com for the rabbit hole that I've been down for the last two hours!

And one of the 400GT is still in existence and has been fired up recently...

https://fb.watch/rj-2LyfyZL/ (URL is to a video on Facebook of Peoplesbus's Metroliner 400GT in Invincible Coaches of Tamworth livery, new to West Midlands Travel as vehicle registration mark E906TOJ, having previously carried PCK335, YTC858, 864DYE and GIG4930 at various times)

https://wmbusphotos.com/ceased/Heartlands/178.html (URL is to Tony Hunter's West Midlands Buses in Photographs, which shows it at both Invincible Coaches carrying the VRM PCK335 and at Shoreline Suncruisers as E906TOJ, plus a history of the vehicle up until it arrived at Invincible)

 

[busesrusuk]

And one of the 400GT is still in existence and has been fired up recently...

https://fb.watch/rj-2LyfyZL/ (URL is to a video on Facebook of Peoplesbus's Metroliner 400GT in Invincible Coaches of Tamworth livery, new to West Midlands Travel as vehicle registration mark E906TOJ, having previously carried PCK335, YTC858, 864DYE and GIG4930 at various times)

https://wmbusphotos.com/ceased/Heartlands/178.html (URL is to Tony Hunter's West Midlands Buses in Photographs, which shows it at both Invincible Coaches carrying the VRM PCK335 and at Shoreline Suncruisers as E906TOJ, plus a history of the vehicle up until it arrived at Invincible)

One of the other 3 (ex Yorkshire Traction) is preserved in the Isle of Man (not my pic):

National Express MMN400G Tours Isle of Man 50 MMN505V

29 July 2018 Preserved National Express MMN 400G ex Yorkshire Traction 99 as E99AAK, also carried HE8899, later Redroute Coaches and WJC Coaches MCW Metroliner 400GT Tours Isle of Man 50 MMN 505V Van Hool Alizee bodied DAF MB200 ex Dalesman, Ilkley B179UNW also carried PMN111 Jurby Transport Museum

www.flickr.com

 

[Swanny200]

Keeping in with the MCW theme, has anyone mentioned the oddball MCW metrobuses with the various Alexander bodies, are they classed as unusual?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Keeping in with the MCW theme, has anyone mentioned the oddball MCW metrobuses with the various Alexander bodies, are they classed as unusual?

Didn't Alexander (Midland) have a lot of them though? Granted, relatively rare with other firms (West Yorkshire PTE, Murkeyside PTE, Leicester, Strathclyde IIRC)

 

[DunsBus]

Keeping in with the MCW theme, has anyone mentioned the oddball MCW metrobuses with the various Alexander bodies, are they classed as unusual?

Both body styles combined numbered around 200 on Metrobus chassis, the RL being more numerous than the RH.
Leicester bought five Metrobuses with Alexander RL bodies in 1983, the only such examples bought new by an English fleet (the others were bought by the SBG for Midland Scottish, Kelvin Scottish and Strathtay Scottish fleets)

Didn't Alexander (Midland) have a lot of them though? Granted, relatively rare with other firms (West Yorkshire PTE, Murkeyside PTE, Leicester, Strathclyde IIRC)

Leicester's were lowheight, so certainly unique in England until the Scottish examples started migrating south.
The three AD-bodied Metrobuses new in 1979 to Alexander (Midland) in 1979 can be classed as unique being the only Metrobuses with that body style.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Both body styles combined numbered around 200 on Metrobus chassis, the RL being more numerous than the RH.
Leicester bought five Metrobuses with Alexander RL bodies in 1983, the only such examples bought new by an English fleet (the others were bought by the SBG for Midland Scottish, Kelvin Scottish and Strathtay Scottish fleets)


Leicester's were lowheight, so certainly unique in England until the Scottish examples started migrating south.
The three AD-bodied Metrobuses new in 1979 to Alexander (Midland) in 1979 can be classed as unique being the only Metrobuses with that body style.

Manchester had 30 with NCME bodies but is 30 rare enough?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Manchester had 30 with NCME bodies but is 30 rare enough?

Divide that between 20 with Gardner engines and 10 with Cummins, the latter might just qualify. And those Cummins powered Metrobuses actually had enough oomph to actually justify the 400 service, their normal haunt, being described as the Trans-Lancs Express.

 

[DunsBus]

Manchester had 30 with NCME bodies but is 30 rare enough?

Borderline rare, I'd have thought.

Answering an earlier query, a check on Buslistsontheweb shows that Alexander bodied 179 Metrobuses.

AD - Alexander (Midland). Total 3.
RH - Merseyside (10), Strathclyde (15) and West Yorkshire PTE (10). Total 35.
RL - Alexander (Midland)/Midland Scottish (118), Leicester (5), Kelvin (10) and Strathtay (8). Total 141.

Grand Total - 179. One ot the Alexander (Midland) Metrobuses was later rebodied, bringing the total number of Alexander bodies on Metrobuses to 180.

So while the Alexander RL Metrobuses aren't too rare, the three AD ones definitely are, and the RH ones are borderline.

Divide that between 20 with Gardner engines and 10 with Cummins, the latter might just qualify. And those Cummins powered Metrobuses actually had enough oomph to actually justify the 400 service, their normal haunt, being described as the Trans-Lancs Express.

I'd forgotten about the engine split in these.

 

[JD2168]

Both body styles combined numbered around 200 on Metrobus chassis, the RL being more numerous than the RH.
Leicester bought five Metrobuses with Alexander RL bodies in 1983, the only such examples bought new by an English fleet (the others were bought by the SBG for Midland Scottish, Kelvin Scottish and Strathtay Scottish fleets)


Leicester's were lowheight, so certainly unique in England until the Scottish examples started migrating south.
The three AD-bodied Metrobuses new in 1979 to Alexander (Midland) in 1979 can be classed as unique being the only Metrobuses with that body style.

A low height version BLS 432Y ended up at First South Yorkshire Olive Grove depot in later life in Barbie Fade Out livery.

 

[Worm]

Buslistsontheweb.co.uk disagrees with you in a big way. The list for Wright Crusader stretches to 425 records; granted, not all are Dart SLFs, but if you look down the list you'll see that it's in no way a rare type.

Bus Lists on the Web

www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk

Thank you I didn't know there was a bigger list of crowd sourced info

 

[GCH100]

Here is another rare type which has so far been missed, the Bristol LH6L with Duple Dominant Bus body, only three were built, and all were new to Welsh Independent operators, namely KBX 38P with Davies of Pencader and LDE165/6P with Silcox of Pembroke Dock.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Just realised one of the local buses of my past could be pretty rare, Doncaster transport had 11 seddon pennine RUs with Roe bodies, could they have been the only ones of this combination ?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Talk of Alexander R-types reminds me that the only examples I saw regularly were those fitted to Dennis Dominators for South Yorkshire PTE. But amongst that substantial fleet were some non-standard vehicles which if not rarities were certainly oddballs. Namely 2311-20(A311-20XAK) which had Northern Counties bodies and 2351-65(B351-65CDT) which had East Lancs. What made them different is that the front ends of the lower decks were built to Alexander's R-type style leading to a somewhat hybrid look. Presumably there have been other hybrid body styles built over the years which might also qualify as rare or unusual.

 

[DunsBus]

Talk of Alexander R-types reminds me that the only examples I saw regularly were those fitted to Dennis Dominators for South Yorkshire PTE. But amongst that substantial fleet were some non-standard vehicles which if not rarities were certainly oddballs. Namely 2311-20(A311-20XAK) which had Northern Counties bodies and 2351-65(B351-65CDT) which had East Lancs. What made them different is that the front ends of the lower decks were built to Alexander's R-type style leading to a somewhat hybrid look. Presumably there have been other hybrid body styles built over the years which might also qualify as rare or unusual.

Alexander (Midland) Tigers MPT116-119, A116-119GLS, come to mind. They had Alexander TC bodies with TE front and rear ends whilst their side windows were gasket-glazed rather than bonded. MPT120, A120GLS and the fifth bus in the batch, had all the TC trimmings.

There were also the batch of six Atlanteans with Willowbrook/Nortbern Counties bodies new to Fylde in 1975 - 98-103, HRN98-103N. The order had been placed with Willowbrook but the chassis arrived late, so it was subcontracted to Northern Counties who built the body frames which Willowbrook then finished off. They had two sets of body numbers and, when new, Willowbrook badges on the front.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Talk of Alexander R-types reminds me that the only examples I saw regularly were those fitted to Dennis Dominators for South Yorkshire PTE. But amongst that substantial fleet were some non-standard vehicles which if not rarities were certainly oddballs. Namely 2311-20(A311-20XAK) which had Northern Counties bodies and 2351-65(B351-65CDT) which had East Lancs. What made them different is that the front ends of the lower decks were built to Alexander's R-type style leading to a somewhat hybrid look. Presumably there have been other hybrid body styles built over the years which might also qualify as rare or unusual.

Alexander (Midland) Tigers MPT116-119, A116-119GLS, come to mind. They had Alexander TC bodies with TE front and rear ends whilst their side windows were gasket-glazed rather than bonded. MPT120, A120GLS and the fifth bus in the batch, had all the TC trimmings.

Think we might be guilty of breaking @GusB rule of not counting...

Minor detail differences in bodywork, eg windscreen arrangement, dual-door etc.

 

[DunsBus]

Think we might be guilty of breaking @GusB rule of not counting...

Think we might be guilty of breaking @GusB rule of not counting...

Guilty as charged, m'lud.

Talk of Alexander R-types reminds me that the only examples I saw regularly were those fitted to Dennis Dominators for South Yorkshire PTE. But amongst that substantial fleet were some non-standard vehicles which if not rarities were certainly oddballs. Namely 2311-20(A311-20XAK) which had Northern Counties bodies and 2351-65(B351-65CDT) which had East Lancs. What made them different is that the front ends of the lower decks were built to Alexander's R-type style leading to a somewhat hybrid look. Presumably there have been other hybrid body styles built over the years which might also qualify as rare or unusual.

Can't really class these as rare, especially the East Lancs R-type clones as South Yorkshire PTE asked for them to be built as such to standardise on spare body parts and East Lancs then subsequently built that body style for other operators.

Plus, it breaks GusB's original brief.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Might be a borderline case then, but here goes...

Of the many hundreds (thousands?) of Leyland Atlanteans bodies by East Lancs, only 24 were built to Manchester City Transport's 'Mancunian' design, or alternatively, of the 500+ 'Mancunians' built only 24 were bodied by East Lancs rather than Park Royal, Roe or Metro-Cammell. 1131-42 (NNB 536-547 H) were also the only single-door 'Mancunians', 1143-54 (NNB 548-559 H) retaining the usual twin-door layout.

They always looked subtly different to their stablemates, one obvious feature being a lower-saloon rear window that filled the available space rather than having a deep metal surround, although this is not visible on the photo below of 1133/4/7 when exiled to Bury garage, sometime in the winter of 1978/9.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Might be a borderline case then, but here goes...

Of the many hundreds (thousands?) of Leyland Atlanteans bodies by East Lancs, only 24 were built to Manchester City Transport's 'Mancunian' design, or alternatively, of the 500+ 'Mancunians' built only 24 were bodied by East Lancs rather than Park Royal, Roe or Metro-Cammell. 1131-42 (NNB 536-547 H) were also the only single-door 'Mancunians', 1143-54 (NNB 548-559 H) retaining the usual twin-door layout.

They always looked subtly different to their stablemates, one obvious feature being a lower-saloon rear window that filled the available space rather than having a deep metal surround, although this is not visible on the photo below of 1133/4/7 when exiled to Bury garage, sometime in the winter of 1978/9.

If we're going to stick to the @GusB guidelines then very much a borderline case as the Mancunian body style was in fact a development of the standard body style developed specifically for Bolton Corporation's PDR1s and built by East Lancs. It does seem as if the continuation of this thread is becoming dependent on such detail variances rather than sticking to the originally laid down guidelines. And yes I'm equally as guilty!

 

[DunsBus]

If we're going to stick to the @GusB guidelines then very much a borderline case as the Mancunian body style was in fact a development of the standard body style developed specifically for Bolton Corporation's PDR1s and built by East Lancs. It does seem as if the continuation of this thread is becoming dependent on such detail variances rather than sticking to the originally laid down guidelines. And yes I'm equally as guilty!

Likewise, the bodies on the DMS class can be disqualified on several grounds - an adaptation of an existing body style for London, the body shape was the same regardless of bodybuilder, and there were only minor detail differences between the MCW and Park Royal versions.

I think, to stop this thread veering too far from @GusB's original brief, we should start a "minor detail differences between bodies" thread and let this one get back on track.

 

[Strathclyder]

Just realised one of the local buses of my past could be pretty rare, Doncaster transport had 11 seddon pennine RUs with Roe bodies, could they have been the only ones of this combination ?

BLOTW (Bus Lists On The Web) certainly seems to think so, as those 11 (MDT 470-480K, new in May/June 1972 & originally numbered 70-80) are all that come up when I search for Roe-bodied Seddons of any kind with any owner (leaving the 'Owner' search bar blank). South Yorkshire PTE added '10' to their original numbers when they took over (linked photo copyright of Flickr's southlancs).

MDT474K

SYPTE 1074 - one of a batch of 10 Seddon RU's new to Doncaster and of note as the only examples to carry Roe bodywork. Just look at the volume of passengers waiting to board in the People's Republic - operators would kill for that now although I fear for the Seddon's exhaust pipe when it meets a...

www.flickr.com

 

[Roilshead]

Maidstone & District SO68 (RKE 540), was the only SARO integral built. And then there was LJW 336, the only example of this SARO body style to built on anything other than a Leyland Tiger Cub chassis - it was built on a "lightweight Guy Arab UF" chassis, a prototype for the Guy Arab LUF (so neither an Arab UF nor LUF) as a demonstrator, before ending up with
S Morgan/"Blue Line" of Armthorpe.

 

[Zamracene749]

Single deck dominators weren't exactly common, especially the less than pretty ELC bodied ones. A couple for Barrow in Furness, and 6 for Hartlepool. There were more bodied by Marshall, but even then only around 30 I think?
Staying with East Lancs, Raisbeck motors ran a rare, if not unique Volvo B57? East Lancs bus in Bedlington (B212 JTY).